11 Replies Latest reply on Oct 8, 2010 5:15 PM by Sebalv

    Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.

    Sebalv Level 1

      I just got CS5 Production Premium and an EVGA GTX 465, which is basically a GTX470 with less CUDA cores (352 instead of 448). I added the card to the list in the Premiere CS5 txt file (the so called hack) and everything seems to work perfect except for one thing. When I play back interlaced footage that I shot with either of my two AVCHD cameras (Canon HF100 and Panasonic AG-HMC40), the footage in the TV set (which is setup as my second monitor) will play with the fields in the right order but after a few seconds it will start playing as if it were progressive, or as if the fields were in the wrong order. Then, eventually, it will go back to play the fields in the right order, and then the wrong order, and go back and forth like that. It switches every ten or twenty seconds. This happens both when the footage is played back in the source window and in the timeline.

       

      Thanks to the GPU acceleration, it plays smoothly always even with added effects and even with different tracks at different opacity levels (I tried three tracks, one at 25%, another at 50% and the other at 100% and it played without skipping a frame), but I don't understand why it doesn't always send the right field order. I wonder if it has anything to do with the cable that goes to the TV set, since it's DVI on the end that I connect to the video card, and HDMI on the other end. Regardless of that, I purchased the cable from Monoprice and it's a very thick, well shielded cable. The card comes with a mini HDMI output, but the cable that comes with it is not long enough to reach the TV. Still, I'm not sure that it would make a difference.

       

      Is this happening to any of you? Could this be a problem with the card itself, with my footage, or with Premiere?

       

      Note: I had switched the "Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration" to "Compatibility mode" in the Nvidia control panel and it didn't make a difference in anything related to CS5, whether it's this particular problem or anything else.

        • 1. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          What happens when you disable the GPU/hardware acceleration and use software mode? Same issue or does it go away?

          • 2. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
            Sebalv Level 1

            If I choose software only, playback goes down to about 10 fps per second in native AVCHD mode (that's probably because of having the secondary preview engaged with no GPU acceleration), and if I render the footage it seems to play in progressive mode, all of it.

            • 3. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              Well, you need to determine whether it's MPE or whether it's the effects themselves. Drop just a clip by itself--no effects--into a sequence and play it back with and with hardware acceleration. Do you see the problem in either variation? If yes, something is up with MPE; if no, it's a result of one of the effects you're using.

              • 4. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
                Sebalv Level 1

                Colin Brougham wrote:

                 

                Well, you need to determine whether it's MPE or whether it's the effects themselves. Drop just a clip by itself--no effects--into a sequence and play it back with and with hardware acceleration. Do you see the problem in either variation? If yes, something is up with MPE; if no, it's a result of one of the effects you're using.

                 

                Right, I didn't clarify that, but this happens with or without effects.

                 

                Additionally, I just disconnected the DVI cable and connected the TV set using the HDMI cable that came with the card, using an HDMI switcher to be able to reach the TV set. Using this configuration the problem is there as well, so it doesn't seem to be related to the cable configuration.

                • 5. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                  Right, I didn't clarify that, but this happens with or without effects.

                  OK, good; that's an important detail. And do you see this regardless of MPE being enabled or not? A single clip with no effects or transformations should playback realtime on a decent system even without hardware MPE.

                   

                  It's not likely the cable is going to be the issue; HDMI and DVI are digital, so it's on or off, all or nothing. It'll be something in Premiere (possible) or it might be something in the TV you're using (seems more likely to me). A lot of newer TVs have built-in scalers and motion-adaptive deinterlacing and all kinds of other DSPs that might be jacking up your input. See if you can disable some or all of that kind of stuff.

                  • 6. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                    on a decent system

                     

                    I suspect this to be the cause here.  He claims only about 10 fps for AVCHD without MPE.  That points to a system just not up to the task of editing AVCHD.

                    • 7. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      He claims only about 10 fps for AVCHD without MPE.  That points to a system just not up to the task of editing AVCHD.

                      I believe that's due to the effects, which is why I asked he test (or at least report) the functionality with just a raw clip. Hardware MPE isn't going to have a significant impact on the playback of an individual, non-effected clip, and a "decent system" will be able to play that back without problems. The fact that he can playback multiple layers of AVCHD with effects with MPE enabled indicates that he's not working with a total dog.

                      • 8. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        We should probably just get the details, instead of speculation on what hardware is being used.

                        • 9. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                          Agreed, though sometimes that's like pulling teeth and we need to play pin-the-tail-on-the-answer

                           


                          • 10. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
                            Sebalv Level 1

                            JSS1138 wrote:

                             

                            We should probably just get the details, instead of speculation on what hardware is being used.

                             

                            Oh, the system is pretty fast, but Premiere always took a huge toll when external preview was enabled, it was like that in CS3 and CS4 as well. But here are my system specs just in case:

                             

                            AMD 1090T @3.8 Ghz (stable)

                            16 GB of DDR3 G.Skill RAM

                            Gigabyte GA-890FXA-UD5

                            Western Digital 1.5 Gb Black Edition (as one of the video drives, the OS drive is a standard WD)

                            EVGA GTX465 1 GB

                             

                            So while this may not be the fastest computer in the world, it's more than fast enough for HD, with 6 cores and 16 GB of RAM.

                             

                            This is something that's either wrong with Premiere's design, but maybe there's a workaround, which is what I'm trying to get to. I've been trying many things in the "Manage 3D" section of the Nvidia control panel, but nothing seems to work. VSync on or off, Triple Buffering, etc, etc, the problem is still there.

                             

                            Obviously if I right click on the monitor window and instead of "Both Fields" I choose either first or second field, I get just that, but I don't see why do I have to edit interlaced video with just one field instead of both.

                            • 11. Re: Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.
                              Sebalv Level 1

                              Sebalv wrote:

                               

                              If I choose software only, playback goes down to about 10 fps per second in native AVCHD mode (that's probably because of having the secondary preview engaged with no GPU acceleration), and if I render the footage it seems to play in progressive mode, all of it.

                               

                              I think there must've been something wrong in that test project when it went down to 10 fps. Now I'm working on another project, and the interlacing problem still remains, but with GPU disabled, the timeline plays back at normal speed, at least the parts without any effects. However, with GPU disabled, I only get one field, or at least progressive playback, but it never shows the footage properly interlaced.