12 Replies Latest reply on Oct 11, 2010 9:52 AM by jimclark1947

    No Audio in Playback

    jimclark1947 Level 1

      I have created a new project in CS5 and imported 6 AVCHD clips that are all shot with the same camera, all over a period of about 2 hours.  After importing the clips I drag one of them to the New Item icon and it appears in a new sequence.  I then place the other 5 clips on the same timeline and press the spacebar to play.

       

      Of the 6 clips, 1 will not play the audio.  All of the other clips play flawlessly.  That bad clip will play both audio and video just fine in WMP but nothing I have tried will play the audio within my project.  I have even tried starting a new project with only that clip and it still won't play.  I tried rendering the clip by itself (render entire work area) to see if that would make any difference, but didn't.  I tried exporting the clip to see if it would play outside CS5 and it won't.

       

      One interesting point.  I could see the audio waveform in the audio track on the timeline the first time I noticed this problem.  But since then I have had that same clip in and out of several different sequences and timelines trying to get it to play and I've noticed that the audio waveform is just a straight line now.  Yet that same clip will play in WMP.

       

      I sure would like to use that clip in my movie so if anyone has an idea to try please let me know.

       

      Jim

        • 1. Re: No Audio in Playback
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          Try deleting the  Media Cache files, then reimport the problem clip into a fresh project.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: No Audio in Playback
            jimclark1947 Level 1

            That was among the things I had first tried and it didn't work.  I just tried it again (you know, insanity and repeating processes while getting the same result.........)  Anyway, I have found another clip from a different series of clips that demonstrates this same problem.  All the other clips from that group play in both WMP and CS5 but the problem clip will play ONLY in WMP (haven't tried other "players").

             

            I'm going to try running the clip through AVS video converter to see if the resulting clip will play audio, then try it in CS5 as an experiment.

            • 3. Re: No Audio in Playback
              jimclark1947 Level 1

              Update...........

               

              I found a work around that at least allows me to use the bad clip and continue my project.  I used AVS Video Converter to produce an AVI file.  The video is crap but the audio is perfect.

               

              Used AME to encode the AVI file to MPG2-DVD non-multiplexed so I could get separate streams.  Imported my original AVCHD clip and the WAV file to the timeline, unlinked and deleted the bad audio from the good video, slid the WAV audio under the good video and done.  Plays perfect.

               

              This is not a desirable workflow (obviously) but it got the problem solved for this clip.  If anyone has an idea what the original problem may be please let me know.

               

              Jim

              • 4. Re: No Audio in Playback
                Level 4

                I'm just guessing, but there is probably some misc junk in the header of the avchd file that editors sometimes dont like...it is a bit quirky ( the avchd format ) for editing and it wasn't until pretty lately that any editors really went nuts trying to accomodate the format for editing...adding support for it. For example I use cs3 and the only way to get support for avchd was to use a mainconcept plug in...

                 

                Some people use cineform I think to convert before importing that stuff to editor.  Others use avs like you.

                 

                The reason is sorta vague in my mind...but avc is a derrivative of mpeg 4..and is SUPER HIGHLY COMPRESSED in order to stuff a lot of video onto relatively small storage spaces.... and if you get a book on mpeg ( like the MPEG handbook ) you can see how there is some complex looping and guessing going on re: encoder, while decoding is sorta more strict re: standards...leaving it open for manufacturers to continue developing the encoder part ( more $$ for better encoders )...while keeping the decoding sorta more standardized...

                 

                pro motion picture digital cameras shooting HD generally use 1 gig per 30 seconds of recording....depending on some minor differences...

                example, I did a red camera test recently and taking the raw 4k 2:1 ( 4,4,4) file and saving that in a mov wrapper with an animation codec made a LARGER byte count file than the raw footage was....  meaning the raw footage is compressed to some extent compared to the animation codec file type.....soooo, there is no real total standard yet even for pro level cameras.. and if they use bayer or not, etc etc.

                 


                To take hours of footage in avchd format and stick into storage the way it does is just plain very highly compressed and sometimes quirky is about the only thing I can think...

                 

                Someone could probably compare a file that works against one that doesnt with a disk editor program ( comparing the hexadecimal and ascii coding of the two ) and MIGHT be able to figure out what causes what in a specific system but I imagine it would take a lot more time than just converting the file ....

                 

                whether something plays in a media player or not means absolutely nothing in terms of editing platforms...sad but true.

                • 5. Re: No Audio in Playback
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  In line with your workaround, you should be able to rip the Audio from the offending files with Soundbooth, Audition or the free audio-editor, Audacity, and just replace that "flat-line" Audio with the resulting PCM/WAV file.

                   

                  Now, when one Imports Audio into PrPro, there is a Conforming process, that MUST complete. There is a progress bar to the lower-right of the GUI. Many users have dragged the Asset to the Timeline, before this Conforming has completed, and they have ended up with Audio that did not play, as it was not yet Conformed. This ARTICLE will give you some background. My advice is to Import the Assets, then just grab a cup of coffee, letting the Conforming complete 100%, before even touching the computer.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: No Audio in Playback
                    jimclark1947 Level 1

                    Thanks for the comments and suggestions.  I guess it is an unfortunate fact of life, and editing, there will always be issues and work arounds

                     

                    I bought a very good HD camera to replace an old mini DV tape camera that did produce very good .avi files.  Editing the AVCHD files has proven to be a challenge and I think I have spent more time messing with settings, waiting for the "no response" message to clear and restarting my computer when things just completely stop than I have spent actually editing.

                     

                    The high def files are very nice to look at and when burned to Blu-Ray they do make nice movies.  But I pulled out some previous DVD movies and played them this weekend just to compare and while there is some visible difference I'm seriously considering just adding a step in my workflow that converts to .avi first, then edit and live with the result.  My next task may be to search for the best codec to achieve this.

                     

                    None of my work is going into a theater.  Blu-Ray is not an absolute necessity.  Most will burn to DVD and play on HD television and some will end up on the web in some form.

                     

                    I haven't completely given up on AVCHD, but it's been a rough couple of days..............

                     

                    Thanks again,

                     

                    Jim

                    • 7. Re: No Audio in Playback
                      Level 4

                      Jim,

                       

                      What Bill Hunt suggested has been done by a lot of people to take care of just those files that dont import the audio , and it works well...and takes a lot shorter time than converting the whole video, etc...

                       

                      I don't know why I didn't think of it in my long winded resonse..duh...so try his solution !  It is NOT that time consuming and works according to tons of posts on this subject...

                       

                      That way you still have your original avchd video files and when you DO export you're not dealing with some strange stuff going on with mixed formats ( like some avchd and some avchd "converted" video )...  Try Bill's suggestion and it should really take care of the problem...

                       

                      After you do it once it will be easy to repeat later if you have to for other clips that are problematic...

                       

                       

                      • 8. Re: No Audio in Playback
                        jimclark1947 Level 1

                        I do intend to give what Bill suggested a try.  It's a good idea and certainly should be faster.  At the time of my original post that was the first file I had come across with this audio problem and running it through the AVS converter was just the first idea that came to mind.

                         

                        I did use the original video from that file and just connected the converted audio to it, so it is still the same high quality clip I started with only now it doesn't appear to be from the silent movie era.

                         

                        You mentioned Cineform in your earlier post.  Do you have any experience with that software?  Any comments about quality of the converted video compared to a conversion to avi from adobe media encoder??

                        • 9. Re: No Audio in Playback
                          Level 4

                          Hi,

                           

                          No, I don't use cineform but Ann Bens ( community pro this forum ) does ...she has posted many mssgs about using it for avchd and p2 and stuff like that...and its not free but basically I get the impression that it works great ...and you end up using a cineform codec.

                           

                          if you search the forum a little you'll see her somewhere ( some post by her ) and you can see her profile, and send her a private mssg maybe ???  ask her about it...she shoots a lot and exports various formats...so I think would be a good person to ask about this.

                           

                          as for me, I am waiting to get some $$ together to build new platform and upgrade to cs5 so everything ( like buying cineform) is on hold until after I do that....  as right now I can't really do significant projects ( long form ) in HD on my mousey machine...

                           

                           

                          • 10. Re: No Audio in Playback
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            Jim,

                             

                            I do agree. Having everything work perfectly with no workarounds would be wonderful.

                             

                            Unfortunately, there are so many variables (and more each day, or so it seems), that sometimes things do not work perfectly. It could be as simple as how a camera mfgr. implements a particular CODEC, or it could be a setting, such as 32KHz 12-bit Audio from a camera. Though PrPro usually will handle a pretty broad range of input material, sometimes there are problems.

                             

                            As one "for instance," MP3 is an accepted input format, but many can cause issues. Things like album art, can keep one from Importing properly. For that reason, I always convert MP3's to PCM/WAV 48KHz 16-bit, and have no issues. Were I to work with 32KHz 12-bit, I would convert before Import too. I like to get all of my Assets into the exact same specs., to take the variables out of play.

                             

                            Another issue seems to crop up with some file formats that limit the file size to ~ 4GB (FAT-32), and will automatically truncate a longer Clip into smaller segments. Sometimes, the latter segments just do not work 100%. This happens with some implementations of AVCHD.

                             

                            If one is always working with their own generated files, it's pretty easy to find all the variables and establish a workflow to get close to perfection with those. OTOH, when people are handed footage from all sorts of sources, things really can get complicated. I'm in that boat, so will just do a conversion step for almost everything, before Import.

                             

                            Wish that life was simple and that there was only 1 perfect format for SD and 1 for HD, but that will not happen, plus some of the newer formats are pretty sweet (though not all).

                             

                            Good luck to us all, [to paraphrase Tiny Tim - the Dickens version! ]

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: No Audio in Playback
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Here is a good THREAD started by Jim Simon in The Lounge, on formats.

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: No Audio in Playback
                                jimclark1947 Level 1

                                Bill,

                                 

                                Only on rare occasion do I need to work with footage I didn't shoot.  So I'm lucky in that regard, I guess.  We think alike regarding formats.  I started off with Premiere 6.0 and it would not tolerate anything compressed, at all.  I got used to importing only MP3's that I had converted to WAV 48Khz, and stills saved as PSD's.  And all of my avi files just worked fine.  Life was simpler then.

                                 

                                My problem is trying to get consistent results with CS5 and AVCHD files.  The files all come from the same camera, but they do not all react the same when I import them.  As I mentioned earlier, there is a lot of what I do that really doesn't benefit from the high definition of AVCHD so I am seriously going to look at some form of conversion for those files that can stand the lower resolution just to get some sanity back into my normal workflow and save the pain of editing AVCHD to those occsions where a high def output is required.

                                 

                                Jim