8 Replies Latest reply on Oct 12, 2010 3:11 AM by Fithlee

    Cirrus (aka Stratus) based video apps

    Loreto Parisi


      I'm CTO at stickphone ( http://www.stickphone.me).

      Stickphone is a Twitter and Facebook app, featuring p2p cirrus (aka Stratus) technology.


      You go online on stickphone, choose a friend or follower from your Twitter or Facebook friend list and have a funny video call with them. If they are not online, you can invite them at any time to 'follow your stream' as we say at stickphone.


      Thanks to great work at Adobe, now it is possible to implement simple p2p client solutions, without any server-side platform.


      We at stickphone are looking forward for any Cirrus improvements and new features and now we are enjoying the service!

        • 1. Re: Cirrus (aka Stratus) based video apps
          Fithlee Level 1

          Thanks for telling us of this: it looks as though it might be fun, but I just can't get it to work. I've got as far as one user in a browser "Calling" another who is apparently online on Stickphone, but no call comes through to the other machine. I've got the two machines sitting side by side; and I've tried with them both connected to the same LAN and with them each connected via a separate IP address to the Internet. Still no joy.

          • 2. Re: Cirrus (aka Stratus) based video apps
            Loreto Parisi Level 1

            It seems you are experiencing a NAT issue. If your IP are behind a NAT, there's no way to get stratus to work. Two clients directly connected to the Internet will get it work normally. We apologize for this inconvenient and we hope guys at Cirrus will found a way to fix this as other p2p well known network do.

            • 3. Re: Cirrus (aka Stratus) based video apps
              Fithlee Level 1

              You got it - I think everyone's going to run into this exact same NAT issue, though; which makes Cirrus useless in the real world until the Adobe guys fix it so that it will work through NAT / firewall like other P2P applications can.

              • 4. Re: Cirrus (aka Stratus) based video apps

                But wait...chatroulette is based on Cirrus/Stratus, and that works behind a NAT.


                Can we get some clarity about what aspects of Cirrus do not work behind a NAT?

                • 5. Re: Cirrus (aka Stratus) based video apps
                  Fithlee Level 1

                  I got the following, from Wikipedia of all places: "Flash's peer-to-peer network capabilities (via RTMFP) allow almost all video and audio streams to travel directly between user computers, without using server bandwidth. However, certain combinations of routers will not allow UDP traffic to flow between them, and then it is necessary to fall back to RTMP.[12] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatroulette"

                  • 6. Re: Cirrus (aka Stratus) based video apps
                    Loreto Parisi Level 1

                    Actually we have also ChatVille (from guys from FarmVille) a Facebook group chat that is based on Stratus as ChatRoulette does.


                    By our tests, we experienced that stickphone is working on (some) wireless networks. In our wireless network testbed, cirrus was able to connect, and get the in and out stream, so two clients behind the wi-fi router were able to get the media stream.


                    In this testbed, the wi-fi router acts as as a access point, dns is from the provider, ip are on dhcp and ipv5 is disabled, and all the clients are behind the same local network.


                    We are investigating use cases where stickphone and cirrus is not working behing nat networks, especially this happens in office networks, firewalled.

                    • 7. Re: Cirrus (aka Stratus) based video apps
                      Loreto Parisi Level 1

                      Yes, the UDP traffic is one of the reasons why cirrus is not able to send RTMFP packets, since RTMFP uses UDP (while RTMP is based on TCP).

                      In the initial handshake, all the clients need connection to the Adobe server, without going through a server, then the flow is between the clients (that's why is p2p). In the initial flow the server requires the nat translation, and it is in this phase that traversal nat service is required, and the flow may be blocked by udp breakout traffic on the router.

                      • 8. Re: Cirrus (aka Stratus) based video apps
                        Fithlee Level 1

                        Sounds like your results are similar to mine, Loreto: basically P2P connections will work fairly reliably if both nodes are behind the same NAT / firewall. However, as soon as one of them is outside then it's a pure lottery whether it will work or not: and most of the time it just won't because of the configuration of the NAT firewall that's mostly outside a user's technical competence!


                        Our team is really disappointed: we don't see how we can provide a service that will work in the real world with a mix of configurations when even Adobe's own videophone app doesn't work the moment one device leaves the local sub-domain. We're wondering whether Flash Media Server 4 runs into the same issues because, if so, there's no point in us buying that to solve the problem!