14 Replies Latest reply on Nov 13, 2010 7:14 PM by conniez68

    step by step color management

    dunksphoto77

      Can someone PLEASE make me feel better about my color management situation?

       

      I have read books, forums, online articles etc and it seems that I'm setting everything up correctly, but my images are dull and do not seem right when viewed in PS CS3 and Bridge. I've learned a lot about color management, but there are photos where (for example) a bright orange dress, that I know was almost neon orange is a muted orange. And all my colors seem dull.

      Another interesting thing that happens is when I am in Bridge the preview thumbnail shows the correct color, what I remember from in-camera images, yet when I click on it you see the shift from that to the dull colors.

       

      I calibrated my monitor using HueyPRO set to 6500K, 2.2 etc.

      My PS color settings were not changed during this, they are still North American General Purpose, sRGB

      My creative suite preferences are synced in Bridge.

       

      Anything else... I am not using proofs or monitor color to view, but when I do look at other profiles it actually seems like they're more accurate than PS.

       

      Is there something I'm missing? Somewhere I'm supposed to change a profile, setting, insert an ICC etc and I just don't see it?

      Can someone give me a step-by-step of how to set up color settings that isn't so technical and all over the place?

       

      I'd appreciate any advice! I'm struggling with 20 jobs to edit and I'm scared to even touch them if they're not going to look right when printing.

       

      thanks

        • 1. Re: step by step color management
          dunksphoto77 Level 1

          also, I never had this issue prior to calibration... I truly find it hard to believe that PS has changed or calibration has made this change. if someone can prove me wrong, I'd love them to!

          • 2. Re: step by step color management
            Level 4

            There's NOT REMOTELY enough information for anyone to be able to help you.

             

            What platform, Macintosh or Windows?  What OS?  What exact make and model of your monitor?

             

            Where do your images come from?  Scanned film or digital?  If the latter, what exact camera model?  Do you shoot RAW or JPEGs?  What is your raw conversion software, ACR (which version, 4.6?) or something else?

             

            Are you set to ACE (Adobe conversion engine) or the despicable Apple (ColorSync) or something else in Photoshop?  Which rendering intent, relative colorimetric or perceptual?

             

            If color is critical to you, why in blazes are you in sRGB?  sRGB is a narrow color space.  Not surprised you see "muted" colors.

             

            Are you printing or just viewing the images on your monitor.

             

            Much more info is needed.

             

            Additionally you should post examples of what you're talking about.

             

             

            ____________

            Wo Tai Lao Le

            我太老了

            • 3. Re: step by step color management
              dunksphoto77 Level 1

              Sorry,

               

              It was late at night and I was tired.... Using Windows 7, Dell U2410 monitor w/ a Dell Inspiron desktop.

               

              Images are recorded in camera in sRGB in both RAW and Jpegs (I've tested both in PS and the same results) using a Canon 5d and Canon 5d mark ii.

               

              When the images are in RAW they are run through Adobe DNG converter, then opened in ACR and PS.

               

              Color settings:

              srgb settings.jpg

              I have read the difference between using sRGB and other color settings, and I know what you mean about sRGB being a limited space, but the thing is, I have never changed this setting and NOW the colors are more muted. If it wasn't like this before, what changed after monitor calibration that would do this?

               

              I checked with preference the monitor settings and it using the ICC that was created when my calibration was complete:

               

              monitor.jpg

               

              Printing- I am still waiting on a set of test prints from my lab (Smugmug) to compare what I see on photo paper, however when printing to HP Officejet photo printer (on white paper) just to test, and when selecting "Photoshop to manage color" it prints "brighter" colors than what I see in PS.

               

              printer view.jpg

              • 4. Re: step by step color management
                MJOrts Level 3

                Hello,

                 

                You mentioned that this color problem did not occur until you calibrated your monitor.  Could you try using the default/original monitor profile and see if this helps?  I believe Windows 7 will either default to a manufacturer-specific profile or something close to sRGB if you just use the default (blank) monitor settings.  Uncheck the "Use my settings for this device" check box.

                 

                I looked up your monitor, and it mentions that it's a wide gamut monitor that is factory calibrated from Dell.  It's possible that your profiling package may not be able to give you a correct calibration on this monitor.  It could be reducing the display gamut when compared to the factory made profile, which might be more photo-accurate, but won't look as saturated and contrasty.

                 

                As Tai mentioned, it would take a lot more evaluation to develop a full color management workflow, or even fully debug your monitor problem, but I hope this helps!

                 

                If there's a way to attach files to posts, you could try attaching your calibrated profile and we could check it out in a profile viewer to compare the gamut to sRGB, etc...

                • 5. Re: step by step color management
                  Rick McCleary Level 3

                  Here's one issue I see:

                   

                  In the Print dialog box, you've selected "sRGB" under Printer Profile for your HP printer. This is wrong. You should select the profile that corresponds to the printer/paper combination you're using. I don't know about your printer, but most photo printers come with a set of ICC profiles that you install on your system, one for each of the different papers you might print on (glossy, lustre, matte, etc.)

                   

                  Since sRGB is likely a larger color space than the printer color space, that would explain getting colors from your printer that are "brighter" (more saturated) than your monitor.

                   

                  This could be at the root of your problem. Try printing using the correct profile and then compare print and monitor (under proper print viewing conditions, of course.)

                   

                  Good luck!

                  • 6. Re: step by step color management
                    conniez68 Level 1

                    dunk...I am experiencing the exact same issue and it has just about driven me insane! I have the same monitor, just upgraded to Windows7 64bit, along with Photoshop CS5, and Lightroom 3.2  -  I finally thought I had everything figured out and after a scheduled reboot, I was facing the same issue in all of the Adobe software. Bridge, Lightroom both load the RAW files and for a split second they have the original color, then poof I can sit and watch each thumbnail being drained of color, and I'm left with a dull color that once I edit (according to my calibration to look fine) and export as a jpeg it is so over saturated that I realize I just wasted an entire day editing since it is obviously wrong.

                     

                    I posted to a dicussion two days ago about this.http://forums.adobe.com/message/3241084  I spent about 2 hrs on the phone with adobe tech support, only to be told that just like us, all of the new software is still new to them and they are still learning. I would give anything to get a solution to this craziness. I'm wondering if it's a Windows7 conflict with CS5 & Lightroom 64bit ?

                     

                    If anyone can figure this out I'd love to hear from you!

                     

                    ~Connie

                    • 7. Re: step by step color management
                      gator soup Level 4

                      Try this:

                      www.gballard.net/windows_srgb/

                       

                      My guess would be you have a bad monitor profile (tagged sRGB files only look bad in color-managed applications - they look good in un-managed apps).

                       

                      At least my link will help you rule out a bad monitor profile.

                       

                      Wide gamut monitors are a second piece of the puzzle:

                      www.gballard.net/photoshop/srgb_wide_gamut.html

                       

                      PS

                       

                      Coming from the Mac, this is the most confusing piece of UI I've ever seen regarding color management (good luck with this):

                       

                      WindowsColorManagement.jpg

                      • 8. Re: step by step color management
                        ablichter Level 2
                        Coming from the Mac, this is the most confusing piece of UI I've ever seen regarding color management (good luck with this):

                        Well, one choose the device (the monitor) and if one have a profiled wide-gamut monitor, one should switch to "WCS profile for ICC viewing conditions" in "Viewing conditions profile"

                        If one own "only" a sRGB monitor, the defaul settings (WCS profile for sRGB viewing conditions) should be fine.

                        That's it.

                        Afaik the latter doesn't effect Adobe products, since they have their own CMM.

                         

                        ps

                        would be interesting what you see as the color of the bike in the JPEG incl. in this zip, when viewed in your OS.

                        • 9. Re: step by step color management
                          ablichter Level 2

                          You shouldn't have "generic PnP Monitor" there:

                           

                          http://forums.adobe.com/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/2-3201410-44269/monitor.jpg

                           

                          You should see your U2410 by the mode it is connected, either digital or analog. IMHO.

                          Get the CD, go into the "drivers" folder and install the "*.inf" by right clicking it.

                          • 10. Re: step by step color management
                            conniez68 Level 1

                            Thank you. I actually reinstalled all the a week ago. The monitor now reads

                            Dell U2410.

                            • 11. Re: step by step color management
                              ablichter Level 2

                              Hi Connie,

                              Thank you. I actually reinstalled all the a week ago. The monitor now reads Dell U2410.

                              You are welcome. And?

                              Well, I don't expect this changes much of your situation.

                               

                              To be honest, I'm a bit - aehm - irritated you don't respons to my emails ...

                              • 12. Re: step by step color management
                                conniez68 Level 1

                                I'm sorry, I responded to you via my email, I assumed the responses were only via email. I didn't realize they were posting here until your last statement.

                                • 13. Re: step by step color management
                                  ablichter Level 2

                                  Well,

                                  my post about the "generic PnP Monitor" was addressed to dunksphoto77, not to you

                                  I didn't realize they were posting here until your last statement.

                                  Huh? Nothing is published here...

                                  When I complained about you not answering my emails (not PMs within this Adobe site), than it was about the additional two emails I sent to your email add (asking about further information) and not getting any answer so far.

                                   

                                  Anyway. I'm out here, because it does not make no sense at all, being involved and reply to the same person and his/her issue in three different forums / threads.

                                  • 14. Re: step by step color management
                                    conniez68 Level 1

                                    Agreed. Thank you for your time.