26 Replies Latest reply on Oct 13, 2010 12:03 PM by davidbeisner2010

    .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5

    davidbeisner2010 Level 3

      I've seen a number of threads related to .mov wrapped files having issues in CS5, but none of them seem to compare with mine.

       

      Here's the problem, in as much detail as I can muster:

      CS4 file, opened in CS5 (version 5.0.2). The timelines include a number of files exported from REDCINE-X as 1920x1080 23.976 Quicktime files using H.264 High Quality compression. There are also some files captured with CS4 from my XHA1, and files from my Sony AVCHD handycam. Now, here's the weird bit: in one timeline, half the .mov files are just fine. The other half didn't link up to the original media. All the other files are just fine. When I relinked the missing .mov files, I got this message:

       

      The selected file(s) does not contain audio media used by clip references in one or more sequences. These audio clip references will be deleted, and cannot be undone. Do you want to continue?

       

      If I click "Cancel," then nothing happens and it doesn't relink the files. If I click "Continue" then it relinks the file, the video is perfect, but the audio is missing. If I open the source file in Windows Media Player, I get video but no audio (same for the files that actually still work). If I open them in Quicktime I get both video and audio on all files.

       

      If I try to import the files from scratch and rebuild my timeline, they still come in with only video and no audio. As far as I can tell, there is no difference between the files that work and those which don't (they were all exported at the same time, using the same settings, from the same source video, using REDCINE-X.

       

      I desperately need to get these files working because I can't get the RED back in here and reshoot this stuff. One of the biggest reasons I swapped from CS4 to CS5 for this project was because CS4 doesn't support the new RED color space, and my color correction is way off (hence the reason I used CINE-X to export these that couldn't wait for CS5--and, being dumb, I deleted the RED source files after exporting the .mov's.) Any suggestions?

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
          Jim_Simon Level 8
          I deleted the RED source files

           

          That's gotta hurt.

          • 2. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
            JaysonM-Y Level 3

            I deleted the RED source files after exporting the .mov's.

            I deleted the RED source files after exporting

            deleted the RED source files

            Ouch....

            What type of system are you on bro? (not the best work around, but hey)From quicktime you should be able to export the audio to wav/aiff. If on a mac, you could try and convert the files to Pro Res, or try (I haven't done this yet) http://www.avid.com/US/solutions/workflow/DNxHD-Codec...

            I remember exporting an audio file that would playback without sound, what had happened was that(forgive my lack of a proper term) it was a 6 track audio file.

            • 3. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
              davidbeisner2010 Level 3

              Hmm... How would one go about exporting the audio from Quicktime? I don't have Quicktime Pro and really can't afford to buy it (though I suppose if it comes down to it, that's cheaper than getting my RED crew back in here!). I'm on a Windows 7 64 machine, a 3DBOXX that's got more than enough power to drive what I throw at it...

               

              I'm just confused as to why the audio works on some and not on others, when they're all exported identically from REDCINE-X???

              • 4. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                Colin Brougham Level 6

                David,

                 

                Are you able import the files that won't automatically relink directly into the project? In other words, if you import one of those faulting clips as a new master clip (either in this project or another one), does the import work?

                 

                Open one of the "working" clips in QuickTime Player and go to Window > Show Movie Inspector; take a screenshot (Alt+Print Screen) and post it here. Do the same for one of the faulting clips.

                 

                Approximately how many master clips are you talking about here? Approximately how many edited clip references in the sequence that won't relink?

                 

                Did you do any audio source channel remapping on these clips in the original edit?

                • 5. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                  davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                  Thanks, Colin...

                   

                  Yes, i can import the faulting clips back into Premiere (instead of relinking them) but I still get no audio--tried that already.

                   

                  I've got a total of 137 clips in this particular project, and of those 137, 47 don't work. In a similar sequence (same project file) I've got 31 files, none of which work at all.

                   

                  Now, here's an interesting twist which I forgot to post about earlier--clips that were not included in my sequence, will still play and can still be re-imported with their audio... it's only clips that were originally part of the sequence that aren't working; but not all of them aren't working... some are.

                   

                  Also, just as a reminder, this project was initially created in CS4, and this happened the first time I opened it in CS5.

                   

                  Now, here's those screen shots. The first shot is of a faulty clip, and the second shot is of a good clip. The only differences I can see between them is that the good clip has three audio channels while the bad clip has only two (and I've got other good clips with only two audio channels, so I don't think that's the issue).

                   

                  Bad clip:

                  image.jpg

                   

                  Good clip:

                  image2.jpg

                   

                  Thanks for your help!

                  • 6. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                    davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                    BTW, I'm currently uninstalling and reinstalling the entire Master Collection, and running the CS5 Cleanup Utility while I'm at it... I did my initial install from a downloaded copy, and my discs arrived in the mail yesterday. I've been having other issues, as well, such as not being able to send anything to AME, having Premiere freeze when importing an undercranked clip from a GY-HM700, etc, none of which make sense. I've read some reports of potential corruption in downloaded copies, so I'm going to clean the whole system and try it from the discs... I'll let you know if I still have the issues when its done.

                     

                    Also, just curious... In the past Premiere has bloated my directories with two, sometimes three files for each video file (.pek files and such). But these affected directories have like 7-8 odd files for each video clip... Should I go through and delete all of Premiere's files and try from scratch with just the video clips there?

                    • 7. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                      Colin Brougham Level 6
                      Yes, i can import the faulting clips back into Premiere (instead of relinking them) but I still get no audio--tried that already.

                      Do you get no audio playback, or do you get no audio portion of the clip (e.g. does it come in just as video)? Important difference...

                       

                      Now, here's an interesting twist which I forgot to post about earlier--clips that were not included in my sequence, will still play and can still be re-imported with their audio... it's only clips that were originally part of the sequence that aren't working; but not all of them aren't working... some are.

                       

                      Also, just as a reminder, this project was initially created in CS4, and this happened the first time I opened it in CS5.


                      OK, that is a little bizarre. What this is indicating to me is that in the sequence translation process that happens when you bring a CS4 project forward to CS5, there is something that is different between how the sequences are written into the project file XML. As such, files that were interpreted one way when originally imported into CS4 are now being represented differently in CS5.

                       

                      Here's something to check: go to Edit > Preferences > Audio and check what the Source Channel Mapping is set to. It *should* be on "Use File," but let me know if it says otherwise.

                       

                      The only differences I can see between them is that the good clip has three audio channels while the bad clip has only two (and I've got other good clips with only two audio channels, so I don't think that's the issue).

                      That's bizarre, too. I'm making the assumption that these files were all created in the same shoot (or at least a similar shooting scenario) and should have the same number of audio channels. Is there any reason why they don't?

                      • 8. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                        Also, just curious... In the past Premiere has bloated my directories with two, sometimes three files for each video file (.pek files and such). But these affected directories have like 7-8 odd files for each video clip... Should I go through and delete all of Premiere's files and try from scratch with just the video clips there?

                         

                        That is interesting information, and a potential clue. You probably have a bunch of ".qtindex" files, right? Those are new to CS5, and are a byproduct of the QT 32-bit-to-64-bit tunnel that had to be made by Adobe to enable QT playback. If you're seeing multiple index files, Premiere is trying to right an XMP ID to the file, so that it can track those helper files, but it's not able to do so. In Edit > Preferences > Media, uncheck the Write XMP ID to Files on Import box before you clear the .qtindex files. The problem is, I've had Premiere mangle certain files with this option turned on, and then the files are unrecoverable--that's probably not the case here, but something to be conscious of.

                        • 9. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                          davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                          Comes in as just video--no audio there.

                           

                          I'm in the midst of uninstalling and reinstalling CS5, so I can't check the source channel mappings yet, but I know that in CS4 I had them set to mono because my XHA1 delivers a stereo signal that is always shotgun in channel 1 and lav in channel 2, and since that is what I primarily worked with, I set my workflow to whatever would be easiest for that and then adjusted the source channel mappings for other clips as I went. I hadn't set that to mono in CS5 yet, but the way those files were coming in, it should have been mono anyway...

                           

                          These files were all shot during the same three-day shoot. The only reason that the one set of files (actually several sets are like this) has three channels is because we had two lavs and a boom for some interviews (where we had two interviewees on camera at once) while others had only a single lav and a boom.

                          • 10. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                            davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                            Interesting... That sounds like it may be what has happened, because in that warning notice I got the first time around it told me it would be erasing the audio references and that the action would be unrecoverable--I assumed it meant the premiere files that got created, but perhaps it meant the actual audio references in the qt files... I'll check on that when I finish with the reinstall...

                            • 11. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                              Colin Brougham Level 6

                              Cool; post back after your reinstall and let us know how it goes.

                               

                              Would it be possible to post a couple of the clips, one that works but more importantly one that doesn't? This should tell whether you have a local configuration issue, or whether the files themselves are damaged--or if there is an issue in CS5...

                              • 12. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                Where do I need to go to post the videos? I don't have access to an ftp site, and if I post them to Vimeo or YouTube, they'd get re-encoded anyway... I can share them using Dropbox, but I can only share them with specific people using their e-mail addresses, and not post them here for all to see...

                                • 14. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                  davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                  Ok; finished the re-install and updated to the most recent stuff using the Adobe Updater.

                                   

                                  My audio preferences are to use the file as the source for the channel mappings.

                                   

                                  I unchecked the "write XMP ID to file" under the Media Prefs and deleted all the pek, cfa, and qtindex files and reopened the program... still getting the same thing--no audio on those few clips.

                                   

                                  If it was consistent I'd wouldn't be as frustrated as I am--having it be inconsistent with these files like this is driving me crazy!

                                   

                                  I appreciate all your help, Colin... any other suggestions? Where should I turn next? Thankfully this is a finished project, so I don't have to work with it again, but I was planning on exporting some other versions of the sequence for use in other formats (initial purpose was for DVD). I'd rather not export my DVD mpeg2 file for web, as I'll lose a lot of the quality that I would have if I took it from the HD originals...

                                  • 15. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                                    Just PM'ed you a link to a replacement file and instructions. If that works, let me know, and I'll spill the beans


                                    • 16. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                      davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                      Thanks, Colin... just downloaded it. I'm running PPBM5 right now, but as soon as its done, I'll try it out... I really appreciate all your help!

                                      • 17. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                                        Cool--there may be a potential wrinkle that will involve you doing a bit of manual work, but nevertheless, you should be back up to speed quickly. I'll fill you in on that detail if the automatic relink doesn't work.

                                         

                                        In any event, you should be able to reimport this file (on its own--no relink) and the audio will be intact.

                                        • 18. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                          davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                          Ok... I replaced the source file (and just to be safe, deleted all the cfa, pek, and qtindex files again), opened the project, and still no audio. I tried importing the clip fresh, and voila, audio! So I went into the bin where the clip was, forced an offline of the media, and relinked it, and sure enough... the audio was there. HOWEVER, the audio was NOT back on my track in my sequence... The audio in this new clip was in stereo, so I had to set the channel mappings back to mono and then grab the audio and drag it down to the sequence and line it up with the video. Not what I was hoping for, but definitely a huge relief to at least have audio back again!!

                                           

                                          So... spill, Colin! What did you do, and how can I work through this with the rest of my files?

                                          • 19. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                            Colin Brougham Level 6
                                            HOWEVER, the audio was NOT back on my track in my sequence... The audio in this new clip was in stereo, so I had to set the channel mappings back to mono and then grab the audio and drag it down to the sequence and line it up with the video. Not what I was hoping for, but definitely a huge relief to at least have audio back again!!

                                             

                                            So... spill, Colin! What did you do, and how can I work through this with the rest of my files?

                                            Correct--that was the minor complication I alluded to, and it's due to the fact that, as far as I'm aware, there is no means of writing a QuickTime file on the Windows platform such that mono tracks will be recognized by a third-party application. The audio tracks actually ARE mono (open up the file in QT Player and check it out with the Inspector), but I'm guessing that there is no provision to correctly write the header data so that the file is recognized as having mono tracks.

                                             

                                            You did find the work around (remapping the source channels), but here's an easier way to replace the file in the sequence: simply drag it to the sequence, and before you let go of the mouse, hold down Alt and Shift. This will perform a clip replace, and will match frame based on timecode. You'll notice that the timecode matches your original clip, so this will make replacement much easier; everything should replace correctly. Just repeat this for all this clips.

                                             

                                            You can also attempt the brute force method: right-click one of the faulting clip in the bin, select Replace Footage, and navigate to the matching replacement. This may force Premiere into relinking to that fixed file, and replace the audio with the correct source channel mapping. No guarantees, but it may work and save you a little bit of effort.

                                             

                                            And here's the fix:

                                             

                                            1. Download MPEG Streamclip, and unzip it--no install needed. The latest beta version is fine.
                                            2. Open one of the broken files in MPEG Streamclip.
                                            3. Select File > Save As, and select a new save location. You probably want to keep the file name the same as the original (this is the default).
                                            4. Hit OK.
                                            5. Profit!

                                             

                                            That's really all there is to it. What MPEG Streamclip is doing is spliting the file open, extracting the video and audio and timecode streams, and then writing them into a new QuickTime MOV file. No reencoding--the files are identical (well, the video, audio, and timecode portion anyway) to the originals. Just repeat this process for each file; if you select List > Batch List, you can set them all up at once and let the batch process take over once you're done.

                                             

                                            Kinda stupid simple, eh?

                                             

                                            Hope that gets you rolling!

                                            • 21. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                              Colin Brougham Level 6

                                              Hey, no worries--glad you're up to speed again!

                                               

                                              Did the brute force replace method work for you? I can't test that, as I don't have your project file, so I'm kind of curious...

                                               

                                              Also, for the record, I believe the issue you encountered to be due to the XMP ID writing. Your original file has "Premiere Pro 4.0" (i.e. CS4) metadata written into it, but none for CS5. The test file I created has BOTH CS4 and CS5 metadata written into it (after I imported it, of course). My suspicion is that Premiere tried to write some metadata into the file, and perhaps failed or was otherwise interrupted, and basically generated a broken file. I don't have CS4 installed to test right now, but I wouldn't be suprised if the file wouldn't open correctly in CS4, either.

                                               

                                              Anyway, hope that keeps you going for the time being.

                                              • 22. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                                davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                                Haven't tested the brute force method yet... I'm going through and running all these clips through MPEG Streamclip... it's fast, too, which is nice! Much faster than I expected it would be.

                                                 

                                                Interesting note there about the damaged XML file... I'm wondering if that's a systemic issue with Premiere CS5, or just a fluke? I've not tried opening any of my other old CS4 docs yet, so we'll see.

                                                • 23. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                  Haven't tested the brute force method yet... I'm going through and running all these clips through MPEG Streamclip... it's fast, too, which is nice! Much faster than I expected it would be.

                                                  Yep! That's because there is no reencoding going on--you're just stripping the media streams out of the old, worn out, busted up MOV container and putting them in a new one. It's more or less just a copy job.

                                                   

                                                  Interesting note there about the damaged XML file... I'm wondering if that's a systemic issue with Premiere CS5, or just a fluke? I've not tried opening any of my other old CS4 docs yet, so we'll see.

                                                  Actually, it's not an XML file; it's in the binary data of the movie file itself. The metadata is written into the file as plaintext, so if you open up the file in a text editor (I use Notepad++), it's mostly gibberish, but usually near the beginning and/or end of a file, you'll see human readable text. It is XML data (at least, it's formatted as such), but you can decipher a lot about a particular file and even the project it was sourced from (if it's an encoded file).

                                                   

                                                  I've had CS5 puke out on a few MOVs, primarily, and I see the same issues you saw where multiple "helper" files are generated. Usually, there isn't the kind of issue you encountered, but in any event, I suspect there is some wobbliness involved with the using 32-bit QuickTime on a 64-bit application. Adobe had to do what they had to do to ensure QuickTime support (until 64-bitness is available for QT on Windows), so there is bound to be some times when it will fall over. When it does, it seems to have this cascading domino effect where file after file will fail. Granted, this is all just conjecture on my part--if I knew anything about coding I'd have something more definitive to say.

                                                  • 24. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                                    davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                                    Ok,so the brute force option doesn't work... BUT, I think this is why:

                                                     

                                                    I've got 10 audio tracks running here, with different tracks for each interviewee (so that I can apply different effects and processes to each interviewee). The audio is not on the standard audio tracks, so I'm thinking it might not know where to drop the audio. I tried the alt+shift+drag and drop method as well, and got a replacement of the video but still no audio. I'm thinking its because the audio tracks don't exist in my sequence since this happened (NO audio clip showing, not just a blank audio clip), and so it doesn't know to drop audio in as well.

                                                     

                                                    Sooo, long story short, it works... but it's going to take some work to drop the audio into the sequence and match it up with the video. Thankfully my old i/o points are still set in my source monitor, so it shouldn't be too hard.

                                                     

                                                    Thanks for all your help, Colin!

                                                    • 25. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                      You should have (at least I HOPE you have) a pre-CS5 version of your project file, and I would suggest using that. When you bring a project forward to CS5 from CS4, it doesn't use that project file--it creates a copy when you first try to open it. The project file you've already converted and are working on is hopelessly broken The audio references have been removed, per that error message, so naturally they won't magically reappear when relinking to the fixed files. Sorry about that, I guess I should have specified--figured you'd be working off a fresh copy

                                                       

                                                      If reopening that original doesn't work, try creating a fresh project file, and importing the original CS4 project into it; you may have better luck maintaining the clip references that way. Another option is to hide ALL of your clips in Explorer--just change the name of your footage folder--and then open the project and keep everything offline. This will prevent Premiere from throwing a coniption if the audio channel mappings don't exactly align. Link one of the working files manually (right-click, Link Media) and the other working files should follow suit. Now try the Replace Footage approach with one of the broken clips; it may complain that audio channels are different ('cuz they are) but it might still link up. If that doesn't work, import the fixed broken clips, remap their audio channels (stereo to mono), and NOW you can do the Alt+Shift+drag replace--this time, it will work, because the audio clip references are in the sequence.

                                                       

                                                      Dig?

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                                                      • 26. Re: .mov wrapped H.264 files from REDCINE-X not working in CS5
                                                        davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                                        Gotcha... that makes good sense. I hadn't thought about that. yeah, I was still using the "new" CS5 project it had created. I've already got it fixed, but if it happens again, I'll remember that. Thanks again!