8 Replies Latest reply on Oct 13, 2010 11:01 AM by Steve Grisetti

    New Flip minoHD camera at 60fps. Will PE9 preset work?

    royandkris

      Flip has recently introduced their new mino HD video camera that has a frame rate of 60fps. The new PE9 has a preset for the Flip minoHD, however this preset is set at 30fps. Will the PE9 preset work with this camera? Are there any special editing issues with video at 60fps that I should know about? If I keep the output resolution to 1280x720 will that help in rendering speed? (Does PE9 support "smart" rendering?). I'm new to video editing so I hope these questions make some sense.

        • 1. Re: New Flip minoHD camera at 60fps. Will PE9 preset work?
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Well, this is for an older version, but it says to use the XDCAM settings

           

          Flip or GoPro video http://forums.adobe.com/thread/437535?tstart=0
          - And http://forums.adobe.com/thread/668369?tstart=0
          - And http://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2009/12/using_a_flip_minohd_camera_wit.html
          - Says to use the XDCAM EX 720p 30p (or 60p?) setting

          • 2. Re: New Flip minoHD camera at 60fps. Will PE9 preset work?
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            I'm not quite sure of Flip's strategy, going to 60 fps. It's not like the human eye can see the difference between 30 and 60 fps. So it would seem to my limited understanding that you're just creating  a lot of extra video frames!

             

            Oh well.

             

            Many camcorders use 60i. This is technically not 60 fps, but it's really just 30 integrated frames (each frame composed of two interlaced frames). But this is based on the old TV standard, back when ALL TV video was composed of integrated frames.

             

            The Flip, though, seems to spec out with 60 progressive frames -- or 60 genuine frames per second. Hmm.

             

            Anyway, I'd assume you can use it with one of the existing Flip presets. But I'd sure like to hear the definitive answer for my own personal reference.

             

            As for Smart Rendering -- Technically smart rendering means that the same video goes in as comes out, except when effects are added. So, no, Premiere Elements doesn't do this with Flip video. Though it does seem to edit Flip video natively, which is very different.

             

            Editing video natively means that the program works with the video in its native state, without constant rendering. Native editing is indicated by the fact that, when you add the clip to a timeline in a properly set up project, there will not be a red line above the clips.

             

            Sorry for the long post, but you've asked some very deep questions!

            • 3. Re: New Flip minoHD camera at 60fps. Will PE9 preset work?
              royandkris Level 1

              John, I do not believe PE9 has a preset of XDCAM EX 720p 60p.

               

              Steve, I have started to play with Flip preset that uses 30fps. But, I have some questions. If I use the preset at 30fps does this mean the PE9 will throw away every other frame? If yes, will this cause video quality problems? Would I be better off using a conversion program and then import this new video into PE9?  If yes, what program would you recommend (remember it has to handle 60fps correctly). Please allow me one more question. At the Flip website it states that this new camera has a video format that uses the H.264 video compression. I thought H.264 and AVC were one in the same. If this is true could I use the PE9 preset of AVCHD Lite at 60fps? Thanks again for your help.

              • 4. Re: New Flip minoHD camera at 60fps. Will PE9 preset work?
                Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                Roy, Premiere Elements 9 comes included with presets especially designed to work with the Flip camcorder's unique codecs. So you'll want to use the one specifically designed for the Flip MinoHD.

                 

                As for the program "throwing away" the extra frames -- as I said, I'm still not sure Flip's strategy in creating a 60 fps camcorder. Your TV only plays 30 fps, your video editing program edits at 30 fps, and anything you output from Premiere Elements will only be 30 fps (or lower, if you choose).

                 

                So, no, you won't lose any quality letting the program treat it as a 30 fps video. As I've said, the human eye can't even spot frames at 25 fps, so you won't even notice the "missing" frames.

                 

                About the only time those extra frames would come in handy would be if you were slowing the video down to half speed. Which, in most cases, that's not what you plan to do, right?

                 

                Again, we need a guinea pig here, Roy. Would you please just try it -- using the Flip MinoHD project preset -- and see what you think of the results?

                • 5. Re: New Flip minoHD camera at 60fps. Will PE9 preset work?
                  John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  >John, I do not believe PE9 has a preset of XDCAM EX 720p 60p.

                   

                  Mixed up my forum links... what I posted is for PPro CS4 settings

                  • 6. Re: New Flip minoHD camera at 60fps. Will PE9 preset work?
                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                    That makes sense, John.

                     

                    Premiere Elements 9 does indeed have project presets specifically designed for Flip standard def and hi-def camcorders.

                    • 7. Re: New Flip minoHD camera at 60fps. Will PE9 preset work?
                      royandkris Level 1

                      Steve, I ran two tests. Test 1: import mp4 file from new Flip with the Flip HD preset in PE9. I split the video and removed parts to ensure basic editing worked and it did. I then rendered the video to my computer using the Windows Media HD 720p 30 preset in PE9. The rendered video looked fine.

                      Test 2: import mp4 file from new Flip with the avchd_lite 60fps preset in PE9. I split the video and removed parts to ensure basic editing worked and it did. I then rendered the video to my computer using the Windows Media HD 720p 30 preset in PE9. The rendered video looked fine and it looked just like the video in test 1. So, it looks to me that either approach will work. Thanks for your help.

                      • 8. Re: New Flip minoHD camera at 60fps. Will PE9 preset work?
                        Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                        Thanks for being willing to be our test subject, Roy! It's great to know the program will also work with the new Flip cams.

                         

                        Happy moviemaking!