7 Replies Latest reply on Oct 15, 2010 10:32 AM by ECBowen

    Best for Raid0? WD CaviarBlack or Samsung F3

    gwmlee Level 1

      hi all,


      i'm consider to upgrade my harddisk in the future and i found that many ppl recommended Samsung F3 spinpoint.


      But currently my computer have 2 disks which is WD CaviarBlack 1TB Sata III 64mb.


      so i just buy one more harddisk and raid0 the 2 WD ?


      or buy 2 more Samsung F3 to raid0 ?


      In addition, my mobo is Gigabyte x58 ud3r which has 2 Sata III port that support Marvell Raid 0.


      is the WD Sata III 64mb got advantage than F3 Sata II 34mb in using the Sata III port ?

        • 1. Re: Best for Raid0? WD CaviarBlack or Samsung F3
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Financially one extra WD is more attractive than two F3's. However, I would try to arrange with your supplier that if the WD TLER 'feature' proves to be a handicap in an on-board raid0, you can return the WD disk and get two F3's instead. I think there are some people here that use the Caviar Black successfully in raid0 and the TLER problems only arise on parity raids.

          • 2. Re: Best for Raid0? WD CaviarBlack or Samsung F3
            cfsKC Level 1

            Harm -


            I put four WD1002FAEX 1 TB hard drives in my new workstation rather than the Samsung F3. I have been planning on adding four more when I set up my Raid array. Did I err in selecting the Western Digital?

            • 3. Re: Best for Raid0? WD CaviarBlack or Samsung F3
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              Relevant info from the WD forum:


              "My experience is that drives will constantly drop out of the array and you will rip your hair out.  It isn't worth it. 

              Earlier  WD drives used to respond to a utility called WDTLER in which you could  turn on TLER in desktop drives so they wouldn't drop from a RAID  array.  I successfully used it on two 640GB Caviar Black SATA drives to  keep them dropping from a RAID 1 Mirror.  It took me several weeks to  figure it out because one drive was constantly being dropped and  rebuilt.  Worked like a charm.  Since then, WD has disabled this  capability in the desktop drives so WDTLER won't work on them anymore.   You'll have to buy their more expensive RAID Enterprise (RE) drives, or  go with a different brand.  Hope that helps."


              WD FAQ Answer ID 1397:

              Western  Digital manufactures desktop edition hard drives and RAID Edition hard  drives. Each type of hard drive is designed to work specifically as a  stand-alone drive, or in a multi-drive RAID environment.

              If  you install and use a desktop edition hard drive connected to a RAID  controller, the drive may not work correctly. This is caused by the  normal error recovery procedure that a desktop edition hard drive uses.

              Note:  There are a few cases where the manufacturer of the RAID controller  have designed their drives to work with specific model Desktop drives.  If this is the case you would need to contact the manufacturer of that  enclosure for any support on that drive while it is used in a RAID  environment.

              When an error is found on a  desktop edition hard drive, the drive will enter into a deep recovery  cycle to attempt to repair the error, recover the data from the  problematic area, and then reallocate a dedicated area to replace the  problematic area. This process can take up to 2 minutes depending on the  severity of the issue. Most RAID controllers allow a very short amount  of time for a hard drive to recover from an error. If a hard drive takes  too long to complete this process, the drive will be dropped from the  RAID array. Most RAID controllers allow from 7 to 15 seconds for error  recovery before dropping a hard drive from an array. Western Digital  does not recommend installing desktop edition hard drives in an  enterprise environment (on a RAID controller).

              Western  Digital RAID edition hard drives have a feature called TLER (Time  Limited Error Recovery) which stops the hard drive from entering into a  deep recovery cycle. The hard drive will only spend 7 seconds to attempt  to recover. This means that the hard drive will not be dropped from a  RAID array. While TLER is designed for RAID environments, a drive with  TLER enabled will work with no performance decrease when used in  non-RAID environments.



              Since WD has disabled the use of TLER on newer disks, like the recent Caviar Blacks, you may have made the wrong choice, but as I stated earlier, I believe that these problems are most noticeable on parity raids and less so on raid0's, but don't hold it against me if this believe is proven to be wrong. I would personally choose other disks for a raid.

              • 4. Re: Best for Raid0? WD CaviarBlack or Samsung F3
                gwmlee Level 1

                thanks Harm.


                i will go for 2 Samsung F3 for raid 0~

                • 5. Re: Best for Raid0? WD CaviarBlack or Samsung F3
                  Scott Chichelli Level 3

                  Raid 5/3 etc is where the issues show raid 0 has never been an issue with WD or others.




                  • 6. Re: Best for Raid0? WD CaviarBlack or Samsung F3
                    nharman Level 1

                    Yeah, you shouldn't have an issues with them in Raid 0.


                    Even in Raid 5 you aren't guarenteed issues.  I read about the issues and they had me nervous, but I ended up going with them anyway after talking to a few people.


                    I have 2 of the 1.5TB models in Raid 0 and 3 in Raid 5 on a 1680ix and have yet to run into any issues.

                    • 7. Re: Best for Raid0? WD CaviarBlack or Samsung F3
                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                      Samsung has the CCTL which is the same as WD's TLER and as of now I have not found a way to turn that on on the Samsung desktop drives either. I know people have found a start up script to enable it but it does not save the value after a power cycle. So if the Drive timeout issue is your worry then get the enterprise drives that have it.