13 Replies Latest reply on Oct 15, 2010 11:10 AM by mikec82

    Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?

    mikec82 Level 1

      I have just switched from Mac to PC after 8 years on a Mac, so I'm making the move from Final Cut/Compressor to Premiere/Media Encoder. I am a wedding videographer, and for each sequence, I provide both a DVD copy (.m2v), and give the couple a high definition .mov file as well. Encoding to .m2v was easy. However, I am not having any luck with the HD file.I'll post the settings for everything below, but my basic question is, why was the output file 23 gigs? I'm used to it being in the 2 gig range, to where I can burn it to a DVD data disc.

       

      PS - I'm just noticing that in the quicktime export settings, the output size was 1920x1280, instead of 1440x1080 (source size). Would this account for the major difference in file size? I'm exporting one now that's 1440x1080, but it will take a while...

       

      Here is the original HDV 1080i(60) clip settings:

      Clip.jpg


      Here is the sequence settings:

      Sequence.jpg

       

      Here is the quicktime settings:

      Quicktime.jpg

        • 1. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
          mikec82 Level 1

          Sorry to muddy the waters of my question, but don't I actually need to be outputting to 1920x1080 and not 1440x1080?

          • 2. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
            Colin Brougham Level 6

            PS - I'm just noticing that in the quicktime export settings, the output size was 1920x1280, instead of 1440x1080 (source size). Would this account for the major difference in file size? I'm exporting one now that's 1440x1080, but it will take a while..

             

            Frame size isn't the issue here; we need to know what codec you were using with FCP (I'm going to guess H.264) and what codec you're using with Premiere. A QuickTime MOV is just a box; it's what goes inside it that matters. We need to see (or have you tell) that bit of information...

            • 3. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
              mikec82 Level 1

              I began this project on a Mac. The original clips were captured using ProRes 422 - those are the files I'm now using in Premiere. For output, both were H.264.

              • 4. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
                Colin Brougham Level 6

                Sorry--should have clarified--editing codec didn't matter. I meant the codec you were using for export--but you answered that anyway.

                 

                The primary determining factor of encoded file size is bit rate; if you look at one of your original encodes using QT Player Inspector, you should be able to determine the bitrate of that file. Then, you have to replicate that in Premiere. With the QuickTime format in Premiere, that's done using the Limit Data Rate checkbox and field on the main Video tab. You're basically telling the encoder to use anything up to that bitrate, as necessary. If you don't use this box, the encoder will dump as many bits into the encode as necessary to replicate the original file: this can result in unwieldy file sizes, as you've discovered.

                 

                Also, you probably want to encode a 1920x1080 square pixel file; the less aspect ratio issues you have to deal with, the better, as many software players only look at the raw pixel dimensions and not the PAR.

                 

                Final bonus question: are you absolutely committed to a QuickTime MOV? There are other, perhaps more flexible, output formats you could use...

                • 5. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
                  mikec82 Level 1

                  Thank you so much for the insight and advice.It sounds like that will fix the jam I am in. It's been so long since I set up my preset in FCP(Compressor), that I guess I forgot to check that!

                   

                  I'd be interested in hearing about other output formats - sure. I'm going to finish this project off in quicktime to keep everything uniform, but I'd be interested to know what else is available (if it's still 1080p and around the same file size).

                  • 6. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                    Check out the H.264 format; it generates an MP4 file with H.264 as the codec (obviously). You have more tweakable options using that particular encoder (MainConcept) versus the Apple-provided H.264 encoder, which as you can see is rather limited.

                     

                    The file generated by that format will playback on both a Mac (QT Player) and PC (Windows Media Player, if running Windows 7, or QT Player).

                    • 7. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
                      mikec82 Level 1

                      I actually tried an H.264 .mp4 file to generate a 720p movie. I started with the Vimeo HD setting, and tweaked it a little. I think it must be the "de-interlaced" part that messed the output file up (see settings and example below) though. How can I change that?

                       

                      Side note - My FCP settings were apparently limiting it to 7,700kbps. The 23GB Premiere file, since I hadn't limited it, came out at 88,000!

                       

                      Export.jpg

                       

                      Example.jpg

                      • 8. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                        That's definitely odd. That screenshot is from playback of the exported file? What player are you using to view it?


                        • 9. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
                          mikec82 Level 1

                          The screenshot is from Windows Media Player. I through the file out afterwards, so I'd have to export it again to try opening it up in Quicktime (or VLC, etc.).

                          • 10. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
                            Colin Brougham Level 6

                            Strange. About the only way I can imagine that happening would be if your footage is actually progressive, but you edited it in an interlaced sequence (which you did, based on your screenshot above), and if the framerate of your footage did not match the sequence. You can get some pretty weird artifacting when you then try to deinterlace and export to a different framerate yet again.

                             

                            Hmm....

                            • 11. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
                              mikec82 Level 1

                              Great point.

                               

                              The video was shot in HDV 1080i, but converted to ProRes 422 (apple codec). I'm having a hard time on google finding out whether ProRes 422 is interlaced or progressive. So you're saying that if ProRes is progressive, and I am de-interlacing, this would probably do it?

                               

                              In the Premiere export settings, I did not see how to change it from "de-interlaced". I tried a different preset, HDTV 1080p 29.97 High Quality, but it still said de-interlaced.

                               

                              Sorry to be so much trouble! I am really liking Premiere so far, just needing some fine tuning obviously. Seems like a great program so far though.

                              • 12. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
                                Colin Brougham Level 6

                                The video was shot in HDV 1080i, but converted to ProRes 422 (apple codec). I'm having a hard time on google finding out whether ProRes 422 is interlaced or progressive. So you're saying that if ProRes is progressive, and I am de-interlacing, this would probably do it?

                                ProRes can be either interlaced or progressive; it's up to the user to specify which they want at the time of capture or transcode. Did you convert on capture, or after the fact?

                                 

                                But yes, if your footage is already progressive (as I believe it is), and you plop it in an interlaced sequence, Premiere is assuming that when you go to export, that that footage is actually interlaced. It can't tell one or the other if that's actually the case or not, so when you specify a progressive output, it flips on the deinterlacer and goes to town. The result is... well... you saw the result

                                 

                                You'll never notice a field order mismatch when playing back a progressive clip in an interlaced sequence, since Premiere plays back all footage at its native specifications until it is rendered or exported. That's why it probably looks fine in the program, but look poo when you export.

                                 

                                In the Premiere export settings, I did not see how to change it from "de-interlaced". I tried a different preset, HDTV 1080p 29.97 High Quality, but it still said de-interlaced.

                                 

                                Premiere doesn't have a deinterlace toggle anymore--it did up until CS5. Now, if you have an interlaced source/sequence, and you specify a progressive output, the source/sequence is automatically deinterlaced. If you go interlaced to interlaced or progressive to progressive, the deinterlacer remains off.

                                 

                                So, to fix this, and get a clean export, here's what you need to do:

                                 

                                1. Drag one of your ProRes source clips to the New Item icon at the bottom of the project panel; it's the icon that looks like the dogearred piece of paper. This will create a new sequence that matches your source footage, and drop that clip into it.
                                2. Delete that clip from the new sequence, so you have an empty sequence.
                                3. Go to your original sequence, select everything in it, and copy. Probably the quickest way is just to hit Ctrl+A, or go to Edit > Select All. Then used Edit > Copy or Ctrl+C.
                                4. Go to the new empty sequence, make sure your CTI (that red line) is at the beginning, and paste (Ctrl+V or Edit > Paste). This will put all your clips and edits into the new sequence.

                                 

                                Now, you can export this sequence using your original encoder settings, and I'll be the output will be clean.

                                 

                                Sorry to be so much trouble! I am really liking Premiere so far, just needing some fine tuning obviously. Seems like a great program so far though.

                                 

                                Don't sweat it--FCP is different enough that you're likely to go through some growing pains. We're glad to have you in our camp...

                                • 13. Re: Export Settings for 1080p .mov file?
                                  mikec82 Level 1

                                  I captured the footage straight from two Canon HV40 cameras. I created the new 1080p sequence based off my source footage - it is  rendering now. Thank you SO much for clearing this up. The guys on this  board seem very knowledgable and willing to help (even with newb  questions like mine!).

                                   

                                  My next learning experience (which I'll fiddle around with before posting back here) will be starting a new project in Premiere, using two Canon HV40s and a Canon T2i. It will probably take some tinkering to figure out what sequence settings are best to use. I saw a DSLR 29.97fps setting, which would be perfect for the T2i, but I'll need to look into how that will sync with the HV40 (1080i).