16 Replies Latest reply: Nov 16, 2010 8:05 AM by Bill Hunt RSS

    Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets

    Pyramid Pyro Community Member

      Hello all,

       

      As far as I can tell, a timeline is a single instance of video/audio.  Within the timeline there can be multiple chapters. A timeline in Encore creates a DVD/BD title.  Hope my terminology is correct there...

       

      In more recent versions of Encore, timlines allow users to place multiple assets into a single timline.  I would think that this would join the assets into a single instance upon completion of the project.  The many would become one with the chapter points applied as usual.

       

      I created a BluRay disc that had about 6 assets in the same timeline.  These assets were BlurRay compliant MP2s (1440 X 1080 29.9 fps at CBR 23 Mb/s and 384 kb/s audio) as they were exported from PPro CS5 and tagged as "Do Not Transcode" by Encore.  The chapters were set accordingly (one at the beginning of each asset) and end actions for each defined. No menus or other extras.

       

      However, when I watched this back on a settop player (LG) after buring the BD-R disc (Verbatim 2X) I noticed that as the next chapter came up (thus an asset in the timeline) the clock started again from 00:00.  This is confusing...

       

      Is this a case where mutliple assets in the same timline really create unique titles in the final build?  I was hoping that the mutiple assets would become one in the single timeline and result in a single title.  Is this they way Encore works or am I missing a step/setting?

       

      Erik

        • 1. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
          Jon Geddes Community Member

          You should never use Encore to combine multiple videos into a single timeline. I'm not quite sure why they ever allowed this, as you should always use your NLE (premiere) to combine videos and export as a single asset for Encore.

           

          Combining multiple videos on a timeline in Encore has always created issues. I highly advise against it.

           

          Multiple timelines in Encore is perfectly fine.

          • 2. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
            JSS1138 CommunityMVP
            Is this they way Encore works or am I missing a step/setting?

             

            I can't speak for Blu-ray, but for DVD the Title and the number of files on disk don't necessarily coincide.  DVD creates VOB files that have a max size of around 1GB. So a single title can actually take several VOB files on disk.

             

            Having said that, I would second the previous suggestion not to use multiple video assets in a single timeline.  Create one video asset per timeline.

            • 3. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
              Pyramid Pyro Community Member

              Thanks both for your input.  I'm sold - don't let encore join multiple assets in a single timeline.

               

              If I had 30 clips about 2 min each (totalling about an hour) what would you suggest to put them in the same timeline?  Lagarith?  Or maybe just make each its own timline?

               

              Thanks again,

               

              Erik

              • 4. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                raj2ashok Community Member

                I don't see any problem when adding multiple assets on a single timelime. Personally, I never encountered any problem and infact I like this functionality very mcuch. I think the problem is somewhere else. Are you using any chapter end action?

                 

                Does it work properly on the Encore's preview panel?

                • 5. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                  Jon Geddes Community Member

                  Anyone serious about authoring would never use Encore to encode their video, and instead would use a 3rd party application for encoding, though the AME does produce some very decent h264 encodes and you know the file will be compliant with Encore.

                   

                  So if you import assets into Encore that are pre-transcoded, you do not want to combine them with other clips on the same timeline, as Encore will then have to re-encode the video, causing a great amount of quality loss.

                   

                  Obviously you will need to leave some encoding up to Encore, such as for motion menus with animated buttons, or if you want to have menu transitions with audio (as you can only assign a single asset to a transition, and a pre-transcoded m2v is video only). If Encore is encoding the motion transitions, then you might as well have it encode the rest of the menus for consistency with colors and quality.

                  • 6. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                    Pyramid Pyro Community Member

                    raj2ashok:  thanks for your input.  Maybe there is hope...

                     

                    To answer your question, after I added multiple assets to a single timline I had the initial trouble of each asset stopping after it played (it would not automatically play the next asset in the timeline).  This was solved by manually setting the end action for each chapter/asset to simply play the next (so yes, I am using chapter end actions).  It thought that would be automatically set - it was not - problem solved.  The result was that the timline played through, but there was a huge pause in between assets (discussed a bit in another thread).  It did eventually play through but the pause was awkwardly long.  That's when I looked closer at what the player was doing and noticed the time function would roll back to 00:00 for the start of each asset.  I associate this with a new timeline/title being played, not another chapter in the same timeline/title.  It also (kind of) explains a pause that can occur between timelines though the length of the pause is unusually long.

                     

                    When I get back to my editing machine I will check to see how it functions in the Encore preview panel and answer your second question.

                     

                    If you are having success with multiple assets on a single timline, can you tell me generally what the outcome is?  I'm thinking one title on the disc and a continuous time count that doesn't restart.  Do your chapter end actions get set automatically or do you have to manually set them?  Any pause between?

                     

                    The feature, in theory, is great so if I can get it to work I'm golden.  If not - you know what - Encore is still a great program.  I'll make it work somehow

                     

                    Thanks,

                     

                    Erik

                     

                    PS:  here is a summary of the steps I take....

                    1. New Encore Project
                    2. Import BluRay compliant assets (Encore accepts these assets and defaults to "Do Not Transcode")
                    3. Create new timline
                    4. Drag assets to timeline (chapter points are automatically set at the beginning of each asset)
                    5. Set end actions (chapter points do not have an end action set automatically so they are manually added)
                    6. Set disc properties (first play, timline end action, title button, timline remote button)
                    7. Export to IMG
                    8. Burn IMG (using IMG Burn on Verbatim 2X discs buring at 2X speed using an LG burner that goes up to I think 10X)
                    • 7. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                      Pyramid Pyro Community Member

                      Jon,

                       

                      Thanks again for chiming in.

                       

                      I was under the impression that if you add compliant files to Encore, then Encore simply "strings them together" so to speak instead of re-encoding them.  With my workflow Encore didn't appear to go through any re-encoding, but it obviously wen through the task of building the files (sorry if my terminology is incorrect).

                       

                      My work-around would be to allow PPro and Dynmaic Link to create one large file before going to Encore.  But it kills my RAM when opening approximately 12 projects with 5 sequences each at 1 minute per sequence (for example) with Dynamic Link.  Any suggestions?

                       

                      Erik

                      • 8. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                        raj2ashok Community Member

                        If you have multiple assets on the same timeline and you want them to play seamlessly then you don't need to set any chapter end action to play the next clip. If you are not creating any scene selection menu then you may want to remove all the unneccessary chapter markers from the timeline to avoid clips loading time on BD players. Also you can update the firmware of your BD player or can verify the output on some other player.

                        • 9. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                          Pyramid Pyro Community Member

                          Everything is playing back fine in the Encore preview.

                           

                          I used DVDFab8 to analyze the disc I created and Encore (for whatever reason definitely broke it out into individual Titles for each clip).  Not sure why it did that when I only had one timeline in Encore.

                           

                          Erik

                          • 10. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                            Pyramid Pyro Community Member

                            OK, plot thickens.

                             

                            Used DVDFab8 to pull apart another disc I created.  The preview in DVDFab plays correctly in my computer's BDR drive.  It did not play correctly on either a Sony or LG set top player.  This time it was a single title.

                             

                            Additionally, I have a note on the disc sleeve that says "video = 23 mbps CBR, audio = 384 kbps AC3" but DVDFab saw it as PCM audio.

                             

                            Maybe this is a case of bitrate being too high?

                            • 11. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                              pgauba Adobe Employee

                              If you add multiple assets in a single timeline then encore creates multiple files as final output.

                              You can check this in burnt disc or burnt folder.There should be multiple m2ts files in that folder.

                              You should use Premiere pro for multiple files in a sequence and send to encore.

                              That wiill fix this issue.

                               

                              Thanks,

                              Pankaj Gauba

                              • 12. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                                Pyramid Pyro Community Member

                                I did some testing with different settings and found out a few tid bits (new to me anyway)...

                                 

                                1:  multiple items in one timeline without setting chapter end points = 1 title

                                2:  multiple items in one timeline with chapter end points set = multiple titles

                                 

                                In hindsight this makes sense for some reason.

                                 

                                I'm going to keep at it until I lose interest to get how this really works and make sure my understanding is consistent.

                                 

                                Thanks again to everyone for thier input.

                                 

                                Erik

                                • 13. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                                  Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                  Interesting.  Keep reporting!

                                  • 14. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                                    zorrocbr Community Member

                                    I think it is also a question of whether or not you want to transcode.  If you send it through Premiere it will be transcoded. 

                                    • 15. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                                      Pyramid Pyro Community Member

                                      I think I have it worked out so here is my check list of settings and practices for future use...

                                      1. Multiple assets in the same timeline can work well in Encore (your mileage may vary)
                                      2. Don't set the chapter end points.  Tthis is what causes Encore to break the single timeline up into many BD-R titles - I wanted a single title.
                                      3. If exporting compliant files in PPro using AC3 audio, make sure Encore has AC3 audio set in the project settings.  This way Encore really won't re-transcode.  I think the default is PCM or least that's what I had to play with to get around the corner - this may have led to my next point.
                                      4. Double check that the final burn has less than 25 mb/s dedicated to the duration of the project.  I was kicking out 23 mb/s video in MPG2 and 384 kb/s audio in AC3 which is OK, but if Encore puts the audio back to PCM things get too close to the 25 mark.  This goes back to BD-R discs not doing so well at the 25 mark.
                                      5. Quality of player - I'm not really blaming the player but I did have better luck with Sony over LG.  I'm sure the LG is a fine player when I get things right.  I'm also expecting players to improve as the medium matures.

                                       

                                      I'm going to run with this for my next few projects and see if it sticks.

                                       

                                      Thanks to everyone who provided input and opinions.

                                       

                                      Pyramid Pyro - Erik

                                      • 16. Re: Explanation Of Timelines With/Without Multiple Assets
                                        Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                        Erik,

                                         

                                        Thanks for reporting your findings.

                                         

                                        For ease of navigation, I almost always do one Timeline per "scene," or "Chapter." As that is also how I normally edit in PrPro, it also keeps things somewhat linear in my workflow.

                                         

                                        As I really had nothing to add to your specific questions, and only observations on what works best for me - I just read along with the thread.

                                         

                                        Way to go!

                                         

                                        Hunt