35 Replies Latest reply: Oct 24, 2010 10:45 PM by JSS1138 RSS

    Render all Sequences

    woodwizer Community Member

      Hi Guys

       

      Just a quickie.  Is there a way to render all sequences at once?  It seems obvious but I can find it and have been trying to search the manual.

       

      Any ideas?

        • 1. Re: Render all Sequences
          JSS1138 CommunityMVP

          Not possible.  The sequence has to be selected to render, and you can't do anything else (like select the next sequence) until it's done rendering.

           

          Background rendering (which even Encore can do) would be a very welcome feature.

           

          https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

          • 2. Re: Render all Sequences
            Stan Jones CommunityMVP

            Oops.  Deleted.

            • 3. Re: Render all Sequences
              jeremy d. Adobe Employee

              We have that feature request already, it's a very popular ask.

               

               

              JSS1138 wrote:

               

              Not possible.  The sequence has to be selected to render, and you can't do anything else (like select the next sequence) until it's done rendering.

               

              Background rendering (which even Encore can do) would be a very welcome feature.

               

              https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

              • 4. Re: Render all Sequences
                woodwizer Community Member

                Thanks guys.  At least I know


                • 5. Re: Render all Sequences
                  Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                  Interesting thing about Background Rendering is that PrElements added that with PrE 8, and most users found that it really got in the way. Most now turn it OFF. Going back many years, Background Rendering was added to Pinnacle (before AVID) Studio, and again, most users found it to be a big headache. Computers have gotten a lot faster, and are better able to do real multi-tasking, but I still question how well Background Rendering will work for most users. That is a call for the Adobe Development Team.

                   

                  In my normal workflow, I complete many Projects, and never bother to Render, as playback is good enough without it. In others, I might Render small sections, especially with animation, dozens of time, and just use the WAB to limit the Render to the area that I need smooth playback. If I had Background Rendering, I'd likely turn it OFF too.

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Render all Sequences
                    woodwizer Community Member

                    Thanks Bill.  That kinda makes sense.  Though my laptop seems to have issues playing back cross disolve fades, etc.  I've got into the habit of rendering every so often.  Sometimes it's quick, sometimes it's slow.  I'm editing short 5-10min web shorts and have been working through 3-6 sequences at once, flipping through them and doing the same 'stage' on all.  I like to see the rendered preview to get an idea of how it's going to end up.

                     

                    Perhaps this is a typical habit of a beginner?

                    • 7. Re: Render all Sequences
                      Bill Hunt CommunityMVP
                      Perhaps this is a typical habit of a beginner?

                      I'd think that it's more a case of your footage and how you wish to view things. I probably mentally fill in the blanks, and just leave much un-Rendered. Perhaps I trust that things will be cool?

                       

                      It's the same with the display of the thumbnails/frames of a Clip. I often start with the display set to "First & Last," and then as things progress in editing, change that to "None," where just the Clip name is displayed, with no thumbnails/frames shown. Many editors ONLY use the "None" display setting.

                       

                      In the end, it's all about what the editor prefers, and bless Adobe for offering the options.

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Render all Sequences
                        JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                        If I had Background Rendering, I'd likely turn it OFF too.

                         

                        I don't see this as a feature you could turn off and on.  Background rendering simply means you can keep working while rendering happens.  Like in Encore, or like exporting with AME.  There's no on/off option.  If you don't want to do any work while rendering happens, you just don't do any.  But for a lot of us, it'd be nice if we could continue to work while a sequence (or part thereof) was being rendered, instead of sitting there twiddling our thumbs.

                         

                        Granted, you'd not be able to work on the portion being rendered, else you create and endless loop of renders with each new change.  But with the multisequence capabilities of Premiere Pro, it is probably the rare editor who has only one sequence.

                        • 9. Re: Render all Sequences
                          Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                          Jim,

                           

                          Are you referring to Background Rendering (for smoothest playback), or Background Export? Those are two totally different operations.

                           

                          In PrE 8 & 9, which now features Background Rendering, one can turn that process OFF, and most users do. Same with the old Pinnacle Studio programs - ON/OFF.

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Render all Sequences
                            woodwizer Community Member

                            Ok guys.  Now I'm confused.

                             

                            What I was referring to is when you hit return and it renders the effects and titles (and anything else?).  What is that called?  and what's the difference with the other type of rendering?  Where do I turn it on/off?

                            • 11. Re: Render all Sequences
                              JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                              I'm saying that with Encore, you can transcode your assets and keep working.

                               

                              I'm saying that with the introduction of AME in CS4, you can export your sequence and keep working.

                               

                              I'm saying that it would be nice if we could also render a sequence and keep working.

                               

                              I don't understand why Adobe would even offer an option to turn that off.  If you don't want to keep working, then just don't.

                              • 12. Re: Render all Sequences
                                Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                Well, regarding Rendering (for smoothest playback), not only did Adobe decide to offer an ON/OFF switch in PrE, but that Pinnacle and then AVID/Pinnacle did too. Obviously, someone wants to shut off Background Rendering. That you do not is rather in the minority, based on my experience.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Render all Sequences
                                  Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                  I assume we can all agree that we want background rendering, even if we debate whether to allow it to be turned off.  Just like we all agree that sending multiple sequences to AME is totally awesome, even if we can debate a variety of other parts of its implementation.

                                   

                                  My issue, I realized, was the thought that it would be "all sequences" - a nightmare if, as I do, there are sequences that I will NEVER render.  But I assume now that it would never be implemented as "all" only; surely one could pick the sequences to render.  But PR rendering in the background: Excellent.

                                   

                                  If it's going to render in the background, I just want the option to cancel a render in process.  I have no objection to an option switch (to force renders in the foreground and not allow anything else), although I am having trouble understanding why it would matter.  For example, in Encore, I NEVER do anything while it renders.  EN has been too fussy.  And, I like automatic, so I have everything set to go before I transcode.  But, hey, on my faster (though not screaming) PC and CS5, I may just tempt fate!

                                  • 14. Re: Render all Sequences
                                    JSS1138 CommunityMVP
                                    That you do not is rather in the minority

                                     

                                    That's nothing new.  Like Stan, I just don't understand why anyone would care to turn it off.

                                    • 15. Re: Render all Sequences
                                      Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                      As I so often have Sequences that are never Rendered, I would ask for control over the process.

                                       

                                      I can also see where PrPro would fit into a different install-base, than either PrE, or Pinnacle, as the majority of users will have more robust machines, though not always. If the machine has adequate power, then Background Rendering shouldn't be much of a strain. However, some users here complain that they cannot edit, especially with the newly Imported Assets, until Conforming and Indexing complete. Imagine their frustration, if their underpowered machines hold up editing, while Rendering is ongoing, especially if it's for a Sequence that they did not really need Rendered. Waiting for Background Rendering to complete, on those machines, might increase the sale of coffee (decaf of course ).

                                       

                                      While I have no issues with Background Rendering, my vote would be for an ON/OFF switch. Looks like it might be 2:1 in the ballot box right now.

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Render all Sequences
                                        JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                        As I so often have Sequences that are never Rendered, I would ask for control over the process.

                                         

                                        This is is easily accomplished by the same method you would use now, simply not selecting the sequence and initiating a render.  No need to have the feature disabled to accomplish that.

                                         

                                         

                                        Imagine their frustration, if their underpowered machines hold up editing, while Rendering is ongoing

                                         

                                        Ah.  I'm with you on this one.  But again we have two solutions.  The first is simply not to continue working while a render is taking place.  Again, there's no need to disable the feature to accomplish this.  And second, ideally background rendering would have at least one user setting - the ability to limit resources.  This can be accomplished by the user liming the number of cores Premiere uses for background rendering, or by having a percentage of resources assigned by the user, or even an auto mode which will use 100% of available resources for background rendering, with those resources being freed up as they are needed for other tasks.

                                         

                                         

                                        Waiting for Background Rendering to complete

                                         

                                        The problem with this argument is that ALL machines currently have that issue. None of us, no matter how powerful our rigs, can do a damn thing while a render completes.  So adding a background rendering feature would change nothing for those rigs that are underpowered (unless the aforementioned limiting feature is added), but could greatly speed up the whole editing process for those with decent rigs.

                                         

                                        Bottom line here is that I still don't see the need for this feature to be turned off.  It can't be "turned off" in Encore.  It can't be "turned off" in AME.  I've not heard anyone complaining about it for those programs.  I don't understand the call for it with Premiere.

                                        • 17. Re: Render all Sequences
                                          JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                          OK.

                                           

                                          It just occurred to me that you and I may be talking about two different things here Bill.

                                           

                                          When I say background rendering, I am simply talking about the ability to continue working after a render has been manually initiated.  I'm NOT talking about any sort of automatic process.  You manually start the render just like you do now, and then you keep working.  That all.  THAT is the proper implementation of a background render.  I get the feeling you're talking about an automatic rendering process.  That is something entirely different, where things get rendered by the program without user intervention.  That is NOT what is being discussed here.  Here we simply want to be able to keep working after we manually start a render.  THAT is what is meant by background rendering.

                                           

                                          I can see where you might want to turn off Automatic Rendering, but such a switch for Background Rendering makes no sense.

                                          • 18. Re: Render all Sequences
                                            jeremy d. Adobe Employee

                                            IF -- capital I, capital F -- in italics, bold -- we implemented this, I can imagine a couple of ways we'd do it in keeping with the Premiere UI paradigm. I am not endorsing either one explicitly, and I am not stating an opinion on the details in this thread. I am also not implying that we have any plans for this at all, which we do not.

                                             

                                            Currently, you hit Render, and you go get coffee (or maybe it's beer-thirty). This is likely to remain for at least the next couple of versions.

                                             

                                            Single-sequence background rendering:

                                            - Sequence>Render begins the render, and you could keep working.

                                            - You'd see the progress updating in the status bar if you choose not to look at the render progress dialog.

                                             

                                            Render queue:

                                            - Go to Sequence>Add to Render Queue. Select which sequences to render, and Go. This queue dialog may not have to be modal, and ideally you'd be able to keep working. Maybe you'd see the progress updating in the status bar.

                                            - Also add some sort of Sequence>Render command to render the current sequence now. This could be added to the queue as Done when it finishes.

                                            - This might also have a preference for Always Render instead of automatically adding it to the queue.

                                             

                                             

                                            In either case, no matter how cool your machine is, there would be a performance hit when using any sort of fun media, just as performance is hardware-limited today.

                                            • 19. Re: Render all Sequences
                                              Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                              Ah! Now I think that we are on the same page. Seeing that comment, I think we are in agreement. Also, there would then be no need to turn OFF the "feature," as it could either be initiated (Enter), or not, by the user.

                                               

                                              In the case of PrE and Pinnacle, when one makes any change to the Timeline, it is automatically Rendered in the Background, but in most cases "Background" usually means that the system becomes totally unresponsive, due to the processing load. This process is initiated at any change on the Timeline, so a way to disable the automatic function.

                                               

                                              In those consumer programs, the Background Rendering IS in the Background (sort of, as the power of the machine comes heavily into play), and is Automatic, if invoked with the ON switch.

                                               

                                              Thanks for that clarification, as I think I now understand better what you and Stanley are talking about - OK, it's now 3:0 votes, so long as the application is as you just described.

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 20. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                JSS1138 CommunityMVP
                                                This is likely to remain for at least the next couple of versions.

                                                 

                                                Well that sucks.

                                                 

                                                But as long as there's time, I'd like to throw in a third option.

                                                 

                                                You click in the sequence to select it, turning it's pane yellow; you hit Enter; the render dialog that comes up does NOT prevent you from going back to the program to continue working.   No need for menu access.  You do this for as many or as few sequences as you wish.

                                                • 21. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                  JSS1138 CommunityMVP
                                                  there would then be no need to turn OFF the "feature," as it could either be initiated (Enter), or not, by the user.

                                                   

                                                  Bingo!

                                                  • 22. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                    jeremy d. Adobe Employee
                                                    You select the sequence in question by clicking in it and making the pane yellow, you hit Enter, the render dialog that comes up does NOT prevent you from going back to the program to continue working.   No need for menu access.

                                                     

                                                    The idea is that the render progress dialog would not prevent you from working. That's where the whole background rendering thing started.

                                                    Enter could never just add clips to a queue. You're looking at a modifier key, at least. The menu commands have shortcuts anyway.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    there would then be no need to turn OFF the "feature," as it could either be initiated (Enter), or not, by the user.

                                                     

                                                    We cannot mandate that our existing user base use the render queue. What we could do, though, is what I mentioned -- use a mod key.

                                                     

                                                    - Enter = render. The progress dialog would open, but users could click back in the workspace and continue editing.

                                                    - Enter + <modifier key> = Add to queue. You'd have to show the queue dialog after that, but again you could click around it or dismiss it.

                                                     

                                                    I'll add that I am a huge fan of background rendering, but we have limitations which must inform any and all discussions of this behavior.

                                                    • 23. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                      Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                                      Jeremy,

                                                       

                                                      Thank you for the observations. They are appreciated.

                                                       

                                                      Hunt

                                                      • 24. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                        jeremy d. Adobe Employee

                                                        I hope I have not discouraged anyone -- please keep this thing going. Everybody's ideas here are great, and if we were starting from scratch, much of what has been suggested here would probably make it in, in one form or another.

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        the_wine_snob wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Jeremy,

                                                         

                                                        Thank you for the observations. They are appreciated.

                                                         

                                                        Hunt

                                                        • 25. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                          woodwizer Community Member

                                                          Well I think this thread has gone to interesting places from what I thought was a simple question.  I certainly understand rendering a bit more now

                                                           

                                                          My only request in my current workflow would be to render all sequences at once.  This is because I tend to work on between 2 and 5 short sequences at once and periodically would like them to render, while I take a (beer?) break.  I understand this is probably not the way most people work.  But it should maybe be an option?  I'll leave the technicalities up to you guys

                                                          • 26. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                            Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                                            It seems that you have requested something that would be very useful.

                                                             

                                                            Sorry that Jim and I got into comparing oranges to tangerines, but there was good discussion and we DID wake Jeremy up...

                                                             

                                                            Thanks for asking the question and good luck,

                                                             

                                                            Hunt

                                                            • 27. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                              JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                              Enter could never just add clips to a queue.

                                                               

                                                              It's been many years since I was a programmer, so I will have to ask...

                                                               

                                                              Why not?

                                                              • 28. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                                jeremy d. Adobe Employee

                                                                I mean strictly in the usability context -- the afore-mentioned User Base would mutiny. Premiere editors across the globe would spontaneously combust, and then their families would sue.

                                                                 

                                                                On a technical level, I bet you can get Enter do do whatever you want.

                                                                 

                                                                JSS1138 wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                Enter could never just add clips to a queue.

                                                                 

                                                                It's been many years since I was a programmer, so I will have to ask...

                                                                 

                                                                Why not?

                                                                • 29. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                                  Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                                                  periodically would like them to render, while I take a (beer?) break.


                                                                  That gets dangerously close to editing under the influence (EUI), which is discouraged - until it is... BEER-THIRTY.  Then all bets are off.  And yeh, that's right, we're a global community so (sing along) It's Beer Thirty Somewhere...

                                                                  • 30. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                                    Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                                                    Hey, some of my most creative creations come after a few glasses of wine! At least they seem to be... to me... at the time...

                                                                     

                                                                    Next thing I know, there will be a national group, MADE (Mothers Against Drunk Editing).

                                                                     

                                                                    OK, enough before I get banished to The Lounge for a month. Hey, never mind, since I will be traveling for two months!!!!!! Have at it Jeff.

                                                                     

                                                                    Again Jeremy, thank you for taking the time to give us your perspective. See ya', when I return to terra firma.

                                                                     

                                                                    Hunt

                                                                     

                                                                    PS - I think I will try to host a PrPro Users' meeting for all the OZ editors about Dec. 8 (now, will that be Dec. 8, 9 or 10 in OZ time?) at the Sydney Hilton. And, for any UK editors, we can get together next week at the Hilton London Park Lane. I have a pass to the Windows Lounge, so the drinks are on me - Wine-thirty! Also, RoboDog is definitely welcome, and we'll do some great UK ales.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                                      JSS1138 CommunityMVP
                                                                      the afore-mentioned User Base would mutiny

                                                                       

                                                                      I accept it's a given that you'd be more in touch with the general user base than I, but I am still curios as to why you think that.  I myself find it a natural extension of the current ability to simply allow the user to do what he does now for rendering, but NOT be prevented from going back to work while it happens.  I'm not understanding why anyone would object to that.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                                        jeremy d. Adobe Employee

                                                                        What I'm saying is that Enter might not be acceptable for simply adding to the queue but postponing the render. It's my imression that most of the time, users are rendering because they want to see the result or to playback right then. I think that a Shift-Enter shortcut to add to a queue is not an unreasonable workflow, although I bet that shortcut is already taken (that's easily customizable, as you know).

                                                                         

                                                                        Starting the render with Enter and then going back to work while that progresses would not be a problem, even if that completed task then appeared in our theoretical queue as a Done item. Work could also continue as a queue is running.

                                                                         

                                                                        This Shift-Enter and Enter workflow seems to me to be a good compromise between the current UI and the queue workflow this thread addresses. That is only my opinion, of course.

                                                                         

                                                                        <I always want to just keep going when I type queueueueueueue.>

                                                                         

                                                                        JSS1138 wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        the afore-mentioned User Base would mutiny

                                                                         

                                                                        I accept it's a given that you'd be more in touch with the general user base than I, but I am still curios as to why you think that.  I myself find it a natural extension of the current ability to simply allow the user to do what he does now for rendering, but NOT be prevented from going back to work while it happens.  I'm not understanding why anyone would object to that.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                                          JSS1138 CommunityMVP
                                                                          It's my imression that most of the time, users are rendering because they want to see the result or to playback right then.

                                                                           

                                                                          Agreed.  Unfortunately, not all of us have a machine that allows playback "right then".  I'd bet the vast majority of us have to wait for some time before we can review the render.  What we want it to be able to work on other things while that render happens.

                                                                           

                                                                          To explain further, here's what I envision.  The current workflow is thus:

                                                                           

                                                                          1. Click in the sequence you want to render.

                                                                          2. Hit Enter

                                                                          3. The progress window opens.

                                                                          4. Render begins.

                                                                          5. Sit and wait.

                                                                          6. Review the render

                                                                           

                                                                          Here's what we want:

                                                                           

                                                                          1. Click in the sequence you want to render.

                                                                          2. Hit Enter.

                                                                          3. The progress window opens.

                                                                          4. Render begins.

                                                                          5. Go back to work, or repeat 1 through 4 as desired (which generates the queue) and then go back to work.

                                                                          6. Review the render(s).

                                                                           

                                                                          Notice 1 through 4 and step 6 do not change in either scenario.  Only 5 needs to change, allowing us to get other work done, add more sequences to be rendered, or both.  Is it your belief that users would object to such a work flow?

                                                                          • 34. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                                            jeremy d. Adobe Employee
                                                                            Here's what we want:

                                                                             

                                                                            1. Click in the sequence you want to render.

                                                                            2. Hit Enter.

                                                                            3. The progress window opens.

                                                                            4. Render begins.

                                                                            5. Go back to work, or repeat 1 through 4 as desired (which generates the queue) and then go back to work.

                                                                            6. Review the render(s).

                                                                             

                                                                            Notice 1 through 4 and step 6 do not change in either scenario.  Only 5 needs to change, allowing us to get other work done, add more sequences to be rendered, or both.  Is it your belief that users would object to such a work flow?

                                                                             

                                                                            I believe strongly that the user needs to have control over the background operations of our theoretical render queue (that is probably evident at this point in the thread). If we've giving him this cool new functionality, we also need to let the User choose to queue up all of his renders, not just Renders 2 through x. In my interpretation of the example above, it seems that the user would always be stuck having to render that first sequence. If that assumption is correct, then this seems to be where our ideas diverge.

                                                                             

                                                                            Let's say we have a User; he now has a festive new tool, background rendering. "Huzzah!" he exclaims, now he doesn't have to sit idle while the timeline renders, he can continue working. He notices, though, that the playback performance of his AVCHD timeline is noticibly worse while the rendering is happening in the backgound, so much so that he's not getting that much more work done than if he had just waited. So he waits, or he continues to work unrendered. Then our hero remembers that we also included a render queue. He can add tasks to it that will run while he's out getting a latté.

                                                                             

                                                                            This is where I get back to my Enter/Shift-Enter workflow -- our User can decide not to render that first sequence at all, opting instead to add it to the queue and run it later; he can decide to render right then as he may already be used to doing; or he can choose to process that render, or the whole queue, in the backgound as he's working.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Render all Sequences
                                                                              JSS1138 CommunityMVP

                                                                              Ah.  Now your point is making more sense.

                                                                               

                                                                              However, I believe I can still counter it, if you'll allow.  I myself envisioned the queue as something that always starts right away, simply because if you want the rendering to start later, then you just start it later.  I don't really see a need to add items to a queue for later render, especially if that requires changing steps other than #5 in the sequence.  You start the queue when you're ready to start the render.  If you want to render later, then you start later.  If you want to render now, you start now.  No need to alter the current method a render gets started.  This is how Encore works with transcoding, and I've not heard anyone complain about it being that way.

                                                                               

                                                                              As to the performance degredation, there are two things that need to be remembered.  First is that currently, there can be NO work done at all while a render occurs.  If a user has a rig that can't handle the render AND more work, then that user needs easier media to work with, or a better rig.  Either way, some work is better than no work.  Second, this issue can also be addressed with the user option I previously mentioned - the ability to define the resources used for rendering, including an Auto mode which will use all available resources, but free them up when they're needed for other work.