28 Replies Latest reply on Oct 27, 2010 6:44 AM by videofame

    where is the Pan Image filter

    videofame

      I need to use the Pan Image Effect on a great set of still images and can't find the Pan Image filter. I should have been able to find it under video transforms folder on the Effects Palette.

        • 1. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          I'm not aware of there being any such effect.  Typically one just uses the Motion effect built-in to every clip by default.

          • 2. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
            JaysonM-Y Level 3

            you mean the set in - out on photo> edit to timeline> highlight clip on timeline> effects controls tab> video effects> motion> postion> set key frame at start of clip and adjust in timeline viewer> move to end of clip and adjust in timeline viewer filter?

            Out side of that you have Picture in Picture motion presets(well at least on my mac in cs4) in the PiPs folder. Effects>Presets>PiPs...

            • 3. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

              Pan Image was in versions of Premiere way back in the mists of time.

               

              Now you just use the Motion effect to move/pan, zoom/scale, and rotate a clip.

               

              Here's a link to a couple of useful tips on this.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                videofame Level 1

                I'll try the motion effects solution. I think i'll just buy a really excellent 3rd party plug in I found that makes this whole process really easy and straight forward. Thanks everyone for your answers and interest.

                 

                doug

                • 5. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                  tclark513 Level 3

                  Why spend money on something that is so easy to do in Premiere?  Once you set one you can copy and paste the same effect to all images.

                  Don't waste the money.

                  • 6. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                    videofame Level 1

                    I will try Adobe PP out, and if it can easily accomodate the precision panning effect I need for the image which is 8956 x 6708 pixels, then I will use Adobe PP exclusively. If it can't accomodate an image of that size (source is Hasselblad H4D with 60MB back raw image, when converted it's about 120MB and 8956 x 6708 pixels).

                     

                    I'm pretty sure you haven't tried this feature personally since it costs around $35K for the camera without lens.

                    • 7. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      With those small images you will be OK. It gets difficult if you use large image sizes. See here: http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2010/07/maximum_dimensions_in_premiere.html

                       

                      However, I can guarantee you that the response time with those kind of images will degrade significantly. You may be better off with reduced resulution that more closely resembles your output resolution.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                        videofame Level 1

                        >>The maximum sequence frame size in pixels is 10,240×8,192

                         

                        Knowing the max size is very helpful to me, since in each instance the still images plus a sound track and voice over are the only elements I'm putting in that sequence.

                         

                        I'm going to try the motion effect and see how quickly and easily the work flow goes. The Adobe PP CS5 (64-bit) plugin I found is great and super intuitive to use because you just 1) size a frame relative to the whole image. then you 2) move the frame along the source image and click when you want a keyframe on the provided mini timeline, 3) you move the frame to the next position till your done. If you want to include zooms in or out you just drag the corner of the frame to the right size then keep positioning the frame where you need a key frame. It took me about 2 minutes to complete the process for an entire picture including panning and zooming in perfect calibration with 15 keyframes. then I just previewed on the result on the little provided monitor and it looked good so I exited the plugin. and rendered the completed effect on my CS5 timeline. It looked great so I dropped my sound track down and rendered  and exported to windows media within total of 5 minutes :-) So the advantage is if I have 40 still images to process in this way the workflow goes very quick.I could blow through the entire job in no time this convenience is worth money to me!

                        • 9. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          The process would be the same using the Motion effect.  Not sure you'd need a plug-in here.

                          • 10. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                            JaysonM-Y Level 3

                            considering that all your pictures are the same dimensions.. copy>paste attributes is your friend.

                            • 11. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                              videofame Level 1

                              Actually each picture is a unique panoramic view of different cities, mountains and villages etc. So though the process I would apply to each picture would be similar it would be different for each a picture. I'll have to give the motion effects feature a try this weekend when I can spend a couple of hours with it. I can't imagine it being simpler than the plug in that I found. It's so intuitive there was zero learning curve, you just sit down and do it immediately. I started to read the instructions about the Adove motion effect process and realized I'm going to have to take time to learn this process. So one big difference between Adobe motion effect and  the plugin is that one method has a learning curve the other one doesn't. I'll defer judgment as to which I think is most effective for my specific application. But the reason they make plugins is because there is a need for something. The plugin I found is used extensively by the TV industry in doing their pans and zooms of still images for everything from commercials to travel shows.

                              • 12. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                shooternz Level 6
                                The plugin I found is used extensively by the TV industry in doing their pans and zooms of still images for everything from commercials to travel shows.

                                 

                                What is it called?

                                • 13. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                  videofame Level 1

                                  The name of the plugin I found is called Moving Picture  http://www.stagetools.com/

                                  • 14. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                    davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                    Honestly, the workflow you describe for that plugin sounds really time intensive compared to what you do in PPro. Within the motion feature you go to the beginning of the picture in the timeline, turn your keyframes on for size and position, postion/zoom the photo where you want it to begin, move your CTI to the end of the picture, and select your end point--PPro does the rest with automating keyframes. There's no need for you to through and set all these different keyframes yourself. I can create slideshows with motion on still images with a little less than 30 secs per image that way. And I agree with you, copy/paste attribute won't help much here because the motion on each image will be different, so you'll have to set each image manually. I really can't think of any reason why you'd want to use a plugin that takes 2 minutes per image when you can use PPro at 30secs per image...

                                     

                                    Also, I'm just curious what your output medium is?? I really don't understand using images that huge if your maximum output is likely 1920x1080 or less--the time you'll spend rendering images that big will be a real pain unless you've got a freakin awesome system! I suppose for pan and zoom purposes it would make sense to use images that big, but you're going to be doing some major panning to utilize that size... why not resize your images down to 4k or something even smaller?

                                    • 16. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                      videofame Level 1

                                      I don't want to get to much into my technique since it's sort of proprietary right now and I'm using it with Hasselblad's new camera system. The bottom line is that I'm meandering all over the panoramic image in a non linear fashion to following the natural flow of rivers & canyons where many features automatically occur like villages, farms, lakes, parks etc.  There is no linear path as you suggested. I'm sliding the little framing window exactly where it needs to be to smoothly pan all the scenic's in a natural way. I'm not really that unaware of Adobe's capability. I've been using it for around 7 years now. I know your just trying to be helpful and I appreciate that.

                                      • 17. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                        (Man, this Jive software is really pissing me off lately.)

                                         

                                        Back on topic.  I'm not quite understanding your difficulty with the Motion effect.  It's not that complicated.  Should take only about ten seconds to figure things out.  Select the image in the sequence, click on the Motion effect in the Effects Control window, move the image in the Program Monitor and set keyframes as desired.

                                        • 18. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                          videofame Level 1

                                          I'm going to try Motion Effects on the still image in the next hour I'll let you know how it goes. I hope I don't blow any CPU's up while doing it!

                                          • 19. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                            videofame Level 1

                                            I'll have to do it at home the Adobe PP CS4 won't let me open the still image it says "File Video  Dimentsions (height/width) too large".

                                            • 20. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                              Yes, CS4 had smaller maximum allowable dimensions.

                                              • 21. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                                videofame Level 1

                                                I tried the motion effects and basically all it does is let me resize the entire image and move the image around. What the plug is does is it keeps the entire image visible full size then it lets you scale a yellow frame and move the yellow frame around the full size image. Then like you said click on the plugin timeline to add keyframes. It doesn't do what I need done in order for Adobe to allow me to accurately pan across the image and follow a canyon the image would have to stay very large( I have 30" monitor) and the frame which would be maybe 3"x2" would be positioned by me on that full size image and then I would add the keyframe then the position of the old frame would stay where it is and a new frame would be available for me to move it where it needs to be relative to the old frame which I can still see. All I see the Motion effect doing is changing the relative position of the whole picture or changing the scale of the whole picture etc etc. This does help me at all. I can't do what I need done using just the motion effects.

                                                • 22. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                                  shooternz Level 6

                                                  I suspect you are doing something wrong if the entire image is moving around.

                                                   

                                                  (Maybe you have the  "Scale to Frame  Size' option checked?)

                                                   

                                                  Assuming you have a still  image much larger than the dimension of the PPRO project eg still is 4000 v 2000px and the project is 720p..you should be able to position (pan and scale)  the still image within that 720 frame by use of motion and scale controls. The 720 frame acts like a "window" on top of the large still image.

                                                   

                                                  These moves will create keyframes and the keyframes can be spatially and temporaly (time)  smoothed.

                                                   

                                                  After Effects is much more powerful in this regard but similar in workflow.

                                                  • 23. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                                    videofame Level 1

                                                    I was able to make the pan effect work. It is really poor when compared to stage tools.

                                                    1) the image pixelation is rediculous

                                                    2) the finished result is worse than  rediculous

                                                    3) I took the stage tools and did a horizontal pan at the bottom of the image that would be equalent to about isa small strip along the botton 8000x6200 image at about a scale of600 during the entire process the entire full resolution image was on screen and the little frame moved across the image and the pop up monitor that was provided by stage tools showed the actual path of the frame across that full size image (30" monitor) so you not only saw it in high resolution but it was extremely easy to track especially when following a non irregular line down a winding canyon or river.

                                                     

                                                    the reason that the stage tools client list reads like the who's who's of motion picture industry is because it's about 100 times better than using the motion effect built into Adobe.

                                                     

                                                    http://www.videofame.com/VideoProductions/Client_List_Broadcast.mht

                                                     

                                                    did you really think that Lucas Films would have been one of the largest users of this plugin if Adobe had the panning capability this does.

                                                     

                                                    You guys are like trying to think that anything you can't do Adobe directly is silly. Give it a break. I love Adobe I own I think the fact that they encourage outside vendors to create great plugins for Adobe users is brilliant. some how I think you guys have missed the point. Adobe can't even compare with stage tools for panning and zooming. like a difference between a VW bug and a F1 Ferrari it's just rediculous. But don't take my word for it download the stage tools for free like I did and try it. You just won't believe the difference. You need to start with a super quality image though from the Hasselblad website downloads area you should be able to download some 50 or 60 MB files that are like the dimensions shown below:

                                                    http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/h-system/h4d-60.aspx

                                                     

                                                    Sensor size: Dalsa 60.1 Mpixels (8956 x 6708 pixels)

                                                    Sensor dimensions: 40.2 mm x 53.7 mm

                                                    Image size: RAW 3FR capture 80 MB on average. TIFF 8 bit: 180 MB

                                                     

                                                    Where talking Lucas film quality now not 35mm Rebel or D30's

                                                    • 24. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                                      shooternz Level 6
                                                      You guys are like trying to think that anything you can't do Adobe directly is silly.

                                                       

                                                      Thats not actually correct.  You were only being offered suggestions as an alternative.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      BTW: ever seen the client list for After Effects?  I would presume to state categorically it would be more extensive... plus include many of those on your list!

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Anyway ..you have a solution and satisfied yourself the way to go for your own projects which is great.

                                                       

                                                      I would check it out also if I ever had the need. Thanx.

                                                      • 25. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                                        shooternz Level 6

                                                        Question:  Did you use the plugin or standalone version.

                                                         

                                                        If the plugin ...which application was the host?

                                                         

                                                        Edit:

                                                         

                                                        Just noticed from the down load site Q&A:

                                                         

                                                        What can MovingPicture do that After Effects can't?
                                                        Nothing. It's just easier. After Effects is a very robust compositing tool that shines in complex imaging situations, but it is overkill for doing pans and zooms on stills. MovingPicture is faster and easier to use. The moves can be instantly changed as your show changes, without going outside your editor.

                                                        • 26. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                                          davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                                          Sounds to me like you didn't have keyframes enabled, so you weren't getting the proper use out of Motion...

                                                           

                                                          While I'm not saying that Adobe is better than this plugin (I'm quite sure it's not!), or that using anything other than Adobe is silly, I would say that its a little childish to get offended that we're offering you solutions using the software you already own, without buying another plugin... afterall, your initial question was asking where an old Adobe effect had gone to...

                                                          • 27. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                                            videofame Level 1

                                                            Correct  the client list for after effects a giant collections of many effects compared to the client list for just a plugin come on what happen to apples and oranges comparisons :-)  That's the oldest trick in the book sorry it didn't work.

                                                             

                                                            Actually if you back at my orignal post I asked where I could find the Pan Image effect filter. I got answer the Adobe handles that type of technique with the motion effects filter. So I tried it, found it doesn't meet the requirement needs for my application however Stage Tools does. That sort of ends the  conversation.

                                                            But that being said I am very thankful that people tried to help me although if they had read closely what I was trying to do they would have realized that motion effects couldn't have done handled what I was trying to do. Because you have to enlarge the image so that a large chunk of the image is off screen so you can't properly anticipate where to navigate next through the canyon or river your following. Stage tools keeps the entire region of the image up on screen and just moves a framing filter around. So you can visually quickly anticipate exactly what panning path you need to next.

                                                            • 28. Re: where is the Pan Image filter
                                                              videofame Level 1

                                                              Great so the answer is spend $900 bucks for one effect instead of $200 buck to do exactly what need. I've had Adobe Premiere in its different version for over 7 years and don't need the other effects.