8 Replies Latest reply on Oct 27, 2010 11:28 PM by here2infinity

    Fixing a sequence created as 29.97 - should have been 25fps

    here2infinity

      It's been many years since I edited anything, as I primarily shoot commercials and edits are done by others much more qualified. My last Premiere software was purchased back when Photoshop 5.0 was new . . . so apologies in advance for this senior moment. I am now using Premiere CS5 build 5.0.1.

       

      I shot this 2 camera fashion show as a favour for a friend and thought I did a very nice (but painfully slow) edit of a 6 minute pre-show and runway project. Hundreds of edit points and transitions . . . only to find on exporting to AME that I had stuffed up the sequence frame rate, which is to say it did not match my source FPS.

       

      I shot both cameras as 25P, and created a source sequence @ 29.97 inadvertantly, then went on to create a multicam sequence (also @ 29.97, again, brain fart). I made all my edits and transitions on the multicam 29.97 sequence. I trancoded the sequence as 25p mp2 at high bit rate twice to see if I could get away with it. I tried both with frame blending and without, all at maximum render quality. I also tried to export it as a 29.97 movie and then let encore transcode it back to 25p. All the footage is jumpy as one would expect. The titles especially.

       

      The 29.97 movie plays smooth as silk on my computer. . .

       

      I then tried to then nest my multicam edited footage sequence in a new sequence that is created at 25p. Transcoded that whole project at 25p at all the recommended settings that I took from watching the top moderators sugestions. And that movie plays back just as jumpy.

       

      While it would probably be good practice to re-edit the whole project again . . . I probably should be out trying to make a living right now instead of fixing a pet project for a friend. Fact is, I am not likely to let this just be, as it is too nice not to fix . . .

       

      I thought of exporting and EDL and starting over, but I am not sure if that EDL would be any better in terms of sequence frame rate referencing. And the main thing also is that I thought by nesting the multicam sequence in a 25p sequence, that it should have taken care of all that anyway? Anyone know why that would not have worked, or what I should do now?

       

      Your input and experience is greatly appreciated!

       

      Cheers

      Chris

       

      PS; I have searched the forums first looking for answers, so please forgive if the answer was in so previous thread

        • 1. Re: Fixing a sequence created as 29.97 - should have been 25fps
          shooternz Level 6

          Try this

           

          Create a new 25fps sequence in the same project.

           

          Copy and paste your entire timeline across from the erroneous sequence.

           

          You will/may have a few little timing adjustments to make

          • 2. Re: Fixing a sequence created as 29.97 - should have been 25fps
            here2infinity Level 1

            Cheers Shooternz,

             

            I actually did nest the multicam footage into a new 25p sequence. As I mentioned in the first post, I then output to DVD settings and it played back just as jumpy. I am now wondering if the footage needs to be somehow rendered in the first two referenced sequences, as the multicam sequence sees the source sequence and the new 25p sequence sees the multicam sequence etc . . .

             

            I am trying to learn how to start a new project from the multicam EDL right now, and that is not exactly "intuitive" so far!

             

            Cheers

            • 3. Re: Fixing a sequence created as 29.97 - should have been 25fps
              shooternz Level 6

              Try copying and pasting with the entire set of all contents from the Sequence ( not a nest) into the new sequence.

               

              eg.

               

              New Sequence (25fps)

              Select All from old seq.

              Paste into New sequence.

              • 4. Re: Fixing a sequence created as 29.97 - should have been 25fps
                here2infinity Level 1

                Thanks again Shooternz,

                 

                I have actually copied and pasted this time. I notice that all the transitions are intact, but strangely enough, I had to go back and replace all my audio keyframes for fades and adjust the position of one audio clip

                 

                The other interesting thing is that in rendering the sequence, the total video previews and total frame amount keeps going up as the render progresses. I also tried to simply render just the rolling credits in the work area, and the same thing happened. It looks like it tries to render the entire sequence and the progress meter shows the totals increasing as it goes. I waited 10 minutes for a small work are to render then cancelled it. Now I am just trying to render the entire project. Been over an hour so far and still chugging along. Should be interesting to see if it actually is doing it, as the green line on the sequence stopped after the first little bit.

                 

                again, thanks

                • 5. Re: Fixing a sequence created as 29.97 - should have been 25fps
                  here2infinity Level 1

                  Update:

                   

                  When copied and pasted, the transitions were not intact. Many turned into dips to black whereas they were once cross dissolves. The new sequence also becomes un-renderable. When trying to render either the work area or the whole project, the render window comes up and creates a kind of loop, where it constantly says it has more video previews to render and the frame count for the project increases endlessly till you quit the render. I am guessing that it is due to the two parent sequences being a different frame rate?

                   

                  Question still is how to save this very complicated edit. 174 transitions and heaps of audio work. I thought of exporting an EDL, but doubt that will be any diiferent in result.

                   

                  Any ideas anyone?

                  • 6. Re: Fixing a sequence created as 29.97 - should have been 25fps
                    Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Hopefully someone will have a grand idea, but ...

                     

                    I'm confused: first you say you did the copy/paste, and the transitions were intact, then not.  In any event, you might consider splitting the video and audio.  Perhaps the whole sequence audio will render out and you can then change its rate - after all, PR is really working with it in much smaller "frames."  And at least once, you appeared to hve the video in fair shape, but it was the audio that was throwing you.

                     

                    I don't recall you mentioning interpret footage; any chance that this might improve your options?  Either in the orignal or other.  I don't think so, but I'll bet you're getting desperate.

                     

                    In any event, if you can get either to work, you would have less to redo if you can't find a conversion option that works.

                     

                    I had some of the same thoughts about EDL or some other method for exporting and reimporting, but that does not appear to make any change to the part that matters - the framerate.

                    • 7. Re: Fixing a sequence created as 29.97 - should have been 25fps
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      You will probably need to reapply all of your transitions and retrim the ends of each edited clip--the reason is that due to the frame rate differences, your edits are likely not falling on legal frame boundaries. Premiere will flip out when you do this. You can fix each edit by zooming in closely and jumping from edit to edit, selecting and cutting your transition, trim the heads and tails of the clips (they'll snap to frame boundaries), and then repasting your transition. It will take a bit of work, but should not take too long.

                       

                      I've successfully edited the XML of the project file when dealing with different frame sizes, but frame rates are a different story: manually tweaking each edit is your only salvation I'm afraid.

                      • 8. Re: Fixing a sequence created as 29.97 - should have been 25fps
                        here2infinity Level 1

                        Hey guys,

                         

                        Thanks for the input. First off; I did think the transitions were intact, but only after looking closer, saw that all kinds of changes had been made. I did an EDL import but decided that I might just be better off fixing the copy and paste.

                         

                        That said, We decided that the flash movie looked fine on his website and that for big screen, the H.264 movie I made looked great @ 29.97. SO I'm wrapping this up at that. I also got to play with the H.264 file on a USB stick and plugged into my PS3 which looked great as well, so that's something else I probably would not have tried otherwise.

                         

                        All in all, I'm having a great time getting back into editing after years of simply shooting. I love PPro CS5. Actually, I'm having a ball with the whole master collection. My son needed it for school work, otherwise I may not have gotten into Encore, Illustrator and After Effects as well. Now I'm itching for a grunty box to make it all work without 4 hour 2 pass transcoding sessions. My 2 year old machine is choking!

                         

                        Next time I'll pay attention to the basics . . . source footage sequence settings!

                         

                        C