1 2 Previous Next 52 Replies Latest reply on Apr 25, 2011 11:53 PM by Amit Kumar Gupta

    WEB-DVD's

    Frits Egelie

      Readers,

       

      i live in Europe , in the Netherlands. My english is not always good.

      I use Photoshop.com, mainly to post video's and or Web-DVd's.

      The last is possible since PRE 9.0.

      That is nice. One variant is making Web-DVd's of 1280 x 720 pixels. A very nice measure.

      One below is 640 x 480, much smaller.

      So making and placing the big WEB-DVD is not a issue.

      But i have a issue with the playing.

      When i have a problem with the playing then others have this  too,  who i send the url of the DVD has also.

       

      My normal downloadvelocity is around  3 MEGABYTE ( not megabit) per second.

      That is what my provider gives me, and often i have this download values.

      i have often downloaded files from Adobe anf got this values.

      Also yesterday tested this and downloaded 1738136385 bytes in 9 minutes.

      But playing the big Web-DVD is very yerky.

      You can see when clicking the web-DVD and stop playing, the buffer is slowly filling.

      The filling goes slower then the playing.

      When you play a Web-DVD the buffer is filled and i have isolated the buffer. ( for me it is a RAMDISK)

      So the buffer is filled with a .mp4 file.

      I have uploaded the same .mp4 file again to photoshop.com with another name, and then downloaded again.

      AND yes, the downloadtime = 12 minutes and 20 seconds for those 130.305.394 bytes.

      So the overall throughput is to low for Big WEB-DVD's

      I have spend a couple of days to test and read all things about streaming and buffering.

      I have also manipulated the flash 10.1 for savings and /or other things.

       

      So all this experimenting does not help.

      I have tried on three other computers, without results.

      What do we have on PRE 9.0 with such big WEB-DVD possibilities as Photoshop.com is not optimized for those big WEB-DVD's to play smoothly.?

       

      Do not say to me " it is not equiped for Europe". That is nonsens.

       

      It is only the throughput of the Server wich is to low.

       

      Frits Egelie

       

      p.s. try this test web-DVD:

       

      http://www.photoshop.com/accounts/e19f51afd4fa4cf691750432dbe19de7/px-assets/4fb0c447ce514 f16a1fd121905636f79

       

       

       

       

       

       

        • 1. Re: WEB-DVD's
          Mark C. Dahm Adobe Employee

          Your link worked well for me (though intially it was slow, I scrubbed back in the timeline, and it sped up nicely after that).

           

          To factor out systematic latency, go to www.speakeasy.net/speedtest; pick Los Angeles; that would be a fair baseline of bandwidth; what performance do you see for your location?

           

          -Mark

          • 2. Re: WEB-DVD's
            Charlie.D Adobe Employee

            Since you are using RAM Disk, and you video is fully cached, jerky playback seems caused by something else other than caching performance.

             

            Are you using a Mac or Windows PC?

             

            Which Flash player are you using?  If not version 10.1, please update to this newer version at http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/

             

            Why do I suggest this?  The latest version of Flash player 10.1 enables hardware acceleration for improved video playback and reduced CPU usage.

             

            For hardware acceleration to assist video playback correctly, you must ensure you have the latest display drivers installed for your graphics chip.  With some older graphics chips which don't receive display drivers updates, sometimes I have seen Flash Player 10.1 perform better with Hardware Acceleration = Off  (which forces the CPU to render the video).  To find this setting, browse to a web page with Flash content (like the PS.com Organizer), right-click your mouse on the Flash content, and in the Flash Player Settings Display tab, click Enable Hardware Acceleration.

             

            FP-HW-Accel.jpg

             

            For Mac, I believe OS X 10.6 may be required for full support: http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2010/06/flash_player_101_now_available.html

             

            Please write back to let us know if updating your display drivers, and enabling hardware acceleration in Flash player version 10.1.85.3 helps.

             

            Regards,

            Charlie

            • 3. Re: WEB-DVD's
              Frits Egelie Level 1

              Mark,

               

              i did what you suggested and my downloadspeed is  8.75 Mbps and uploadspeed is:1,47 Mbps.

              Quck enough.

               

              it is the throughput of the server what is the problem.

              ***

               

              When you scrubbed back or wait till the movie is ended , tho whole movie is on you Harddrive. ( for me the ramdisk)

              When you  play then or scrubbed back the play is smoothly. Of  course it plays smoothly then.

              You play then from your harddisk.

              The buffer is filled with the movie and is of .MP4 format. Search for it and delete it.  ( there are two)

               

              So on each test i delete the .mp4 files.

               

              Frits

              • 4. Re: WEB-DVD's
                Frits Egelie Level 1

                Charlie D,

                 

                "

                Since you are using RAM Disk, and you video is fully cached, jerky playback seems caused by something else other than caching performance. "

                 

                My video plays yerkey before the buffer is filled. After fill it plays smoothly ( see previous answer)

                When i send a video url to other people, i can t  expect they will wait till there buffer is full. They will play instantly smoothly.

                 

                indeed i have the lastest Flash and indeed i have tried a lot of things/

                I have a modern system ; see http://members.chello.nl/f.egelie/Diversen/system-Report-2010.pdf

                 

                 

                But there is a small problem; whe ni wake up the flashpopup., i can 't Unclick the hardware accelaeation.

                The whole popup does not work. But the sentence of  genaral settings does work.

                So i can set the buffe rto endless.

                Before i have placed the issue in the header i have lots of time to investigate the problem.

                i have tried al lthis on three computers. On one of them the first pop does work, but changed the hardware acceleration does not work.

                 

                Because of that i did the end test by uploading the .mp4 file in the buffer to Photoshop.com,; the ndownloading it  again.

                On that moment there is the truth.

                The overall throughput of Photshop.com is to low. PRE9.0 has initiaded the Web-DVD's .

                Also in 1280 x 720 measure. So it has to work perfectly.

                Only issues outsite the Photoshop.com servers could sometimes the problem.

                But  this is not the  case, yet.

                 

                Frits Egelie

                • 5. Re: WEB-DVD's
                  Charlie.D Adobe Employee

                  You said: "My video plays yerkey before the buffer is filled. After fill it plays smoothly ( see previous answer)"

                   

                  Ah, I see now that I misunderstood your original post.  I thought you meant that the video played jerky even after fully caching.

                   

                  Regarding your difficulties toggling Flash player hardware acceleration settings, those settings are available for compatibile hardware.  As I mentioned, updating your video display drivers may help.  On Mac OS X, Flash hardware acceleration may not be available for all video chipsets.

                   

                  --Charlie

                  • 6. Re: WEB-DVD's
                    Frits Egelie Level 1

                    Charlie,

                     

                    i have the latest drivers.

                    see the .pdf in the previous message!

                     

                    Believe me, it is the photoshop.com throuhgput.

                    I have discussed this before by some other people and they have the same

                    issues.

                    I can only play 640 x 480 WEB-DVD's smoothly.

                     

                    Frits

                     

                    p.s when i start plying a big WEB-DVD , and stop after a couple of seconds, you can see the buffer filling.

                    those filling goes slower then the playing.

                    When the filling is not far enough, and i start the playing  again , it can pass the filling border.

                    • 7. Re: WEB-DVD's
                      Charlie.D Adobe Employee

                      Hello again

                       

                      I did review your system specs PDF.  It didn't seem to show what display driver version you are using.  If you are running Windows 7 64-bit, I wonder if installing this driver might enable access to Flash hardware acceleration settings: http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7-winvista-64bit-260.99-whql-driver.html

                       

                      I was addressing this Flash settings question of yours separately from the playback issue, just trying to help you access those settings.  I didn't mean to suggest this would resolve the jerky video playback.  We know from experience that users overseas from other countries and geographies outside the U.S. may experience video playback performance issues as we won't have video servers local to those users.  Even if overall throughput is high, network latency can also negatively affect the user experience.

                       

                      Comments and feedback like yours are valuable to us, as it helps us understand user needs.  Thank you for taking the time to post!

                       

                      --Charlie

                      • 8. Re: WEB-DVD's
                        Charlie.D Adobe Employee

                        We're continuing to investigate this issue, and I'd like to see some additional information about your internet connection.

                         

                        My suspicion is that higher ping time equates to high network latency, which causes the overall network transactions (confirming packets were sent/received) to have a bad effect on playback during inital caching.

                         

                        Similar to the test Mark requested, could you run this other test,  selecting a target location in California like before (to compare easily  to previous results), and tell us what your "ping" time is:   http://www.speedtest.net/

                         

                        Thanks,

                        Charlie

                        • 9. Re: WEB-DVD's
                          Frits Egelie Level 1

                          Charlie,

                           

                          godd morning:

                           

                          i did this test on local time: 07:07H.

                           

                          i did a server on Los Angeles wit ha ping time of  179 ms, download time

                          7.58 Mb/s en upload 1.48 Mb/s

                           

                          Frits

                          • 10. Re: WEB-DVD's
                            Frits Egelie Level 1

                            Charlie

                             

                            i give you the display drivers name in the afternoon.

                             

                             

                             

                            Frits

                            • 11. Re: WEB-DVD's
                              Frits Egelie Level 1

                              Hello, Charlie,               

                                  

                                  191.07_desktop_win7_winvista_64bit_english_whql  exe    2.652.884 02-09-2009 23:39

                               

                                  258.96_desktop_win7_winvista_64bit_international_whql exe  160.870.672 14-07-2010 11:28

                               

                              I hve installed now the latest drivers you suggested.

                               

                              Frits

                              • 12. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                Frits Egelie Level 1

                                Charlie,

                                 

                                i just installed the latest video driver , you sugested.

                                also i has to install Adobe flash 10 again. ( it could be i have

                                de-installed it for yesterday)

                                But unclicking the hardware acceleration does not wrok.

                                The whole popup does not work, like before.

                                The General popuop  does work anf ik could set the buffersize to endless..

                                 

                                for the rest all i said earlier is the same.

                                 

                                Frits

                                • 14. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                  Charlie.D Adobe Employee

                                  Thank you for the additional info, as it assures us the stuttering playback experience isn't caused by any limitation on your side.  We're continuing to investigate this.  I'll post more news as I get it.  In the meantime, the best advice I can offer is to allow the video to fully cache for smooth playback.

                                   

                                  We appreciate your patience with us while we try to resolve this.

                                   

                                  --Charlie

                                  • 15. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                    Frits Egelie Level 1

                                    Charlie,

                                    thanks!

                                     

                                    I wait!

                                     

                                    Frits

                                    • 16. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                      Charlie.D Adobe Employee

                                      Hi Frits

                                       

                                      The Elements team is investigating this further as an encoding issue.

                                       

                                      Just to summarize work-arounds you or other users may use while we continue to investigate:

                                      1) allow the video to fully cache before playing back

                                      2) Save the video to your desktop or local Elements catalog, and Sync or directly upload to Photoshop.com.  This will result in video that plays more smoothly, as we discussed in another thread: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/745880?tstart=0

                                       

                                      --Charlie

                                      • 17. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                        Charlie.D Adobe Employee

                                        Additional work-around advice I got from the Premiere Elements team is you could use  the SD web DVD preset.

                                        • 18. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                          Frits Egelie Level 1

                                          Charlie,

                                          i did now this advise of the team already!
                                          SD is smaller.
                                          In the mean time i have re-discovered another issue.
                                          I thought in those advises and testings; i set a video on Youtube with PRE 9.0
                                          And i will do that with the full 1440 x 1080I.
                                          I did place such a video, which .prel i did have just finished.
                                          I would testing the behaviour on Youtube in comparison to Photoshop.com.
                                          But i was forgotten that the whole movie was under the effects of the plugin Mercalli 2.
                                          So i re-discovered a bug in PRE9  OR Mercalli 2.
                                          When i discovered this, was i nthe period i was beta-tester of PRE 9.0
                                          So i can't speak about this by the NDA. That is very difficult.
                                          I could not tell Prodad ( seller of Mercalli 1 and two)
                                          So to day again the same issue. Is it Mercalli wich is cause the issue or is it PRE 9.0
                                          you cna tel me :
                                          look at this video: see the edges.
                                          It was also with the use of Mercalli 1
                                          Frits
                                          p,s this is only when output to Youtube , with PRE 9.0
                                          • 19. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                            Charlie.D Adobe Employee

                                            Hi Frits

                                             

                                            I'm moving this this post to the Premiere Elements forum, you will likely get better feedback and advice from the PRE community than you will on the Photoshop.com forum.  Both your original issue and also your most recent question are better handled by PRE folks.

                                             

                                            This forum is: http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere_elements

                                             

                                             

                                            Thanks,

                                            Charlie

                                            • 20. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                              Frits Egelie Level 1

                                              charliw,

                                               

                                              i know where it is.

                                              But i vaguley remember i mention this in the past.

                                              I did not get a  response.

                                               

                                              Frits

                                              • 21. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                Charlie,

                                                 

                                                and the dicussions are over on that forum.

                                                They know my address and when they like it , they can answer.

                                                i have some e-mail adresses from them.

                                                 

                                                Frits

                                                • 22. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                                  Hello, Frits.

                                                   

                                                  Man, that is one HUGE WebDVD! I couldn't get it to play either. So I'm really surprised that the program defaults to a video that size when produces video that's supposed to stream over the internet.

                                                   

                                                  A 640x480 video size makes much more sense for this purpose.

                                                  • 23. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                    Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                    Good Day Steve,

                                                     

                                                    it is a long time ago!

                                                     

                                                    you and the rest of the team did make it possible to make such Hugh

                                                    WEB-DVS's.

                                                     

                                                    And i do understand the advises!

                                                     

                                                    But on the other hand, Youtube can handle bigger sizes and play it easier.

                                                    indeed also wiht some buffer, i thnk, but easier.

                                                    Why not Photoshop.com ?

                                                     

                                                    Frits

                                                    • 24. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                      Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                      Steve,

                                                      yo uare not of the team., i remember now.

                                                      you write books about it and something more!

                                                      apologies.

                                                       

                                                      Frits

                                                      • 25. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                        Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                                        Thank you for recognizing me, Frits!

                                                         

                                                        YouTube can indeed use larger video sizes -- but then they take that video and compress and encode it to produce a much smaller file.

                                                         

                                                        The file you posted to Photoshop.com was so large it barely fit in my 19" monitor! I was not surprised I had trouble playing it from the internet.

                                                         

                                                        I can't imagine why Adobe created WebDVD sizes that large. Even a 640x480 video can be challenging to play online.

                                                        • 26. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                          Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                          Steve,

                                                           

                                                          640 x 480 plays nearly 100 % smoothly.

                                                           

                                                          the 1280 x 720 size, i like it because you see more details. Special the face expressions.

                                                          It looks good on my 1920 x 1200 pixels screen, and it would play smoothly when the filling of the buffer goes quicker then the playing.

                                                          So why not  ?

                                                          Adobe does make it possible , so the througput should be optimal.

                                                          Whem i upload  a normal file , then dowloading takes nearly the the time of uploading.

                                                          And photoshop does like youtube, also compress the movie.

                                                          Both work along the same principles.

                                                           

                                                          Frits

                                                          • 27. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                            Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                            Steve,

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Charlie has moved the Photoshop.com issue to this PRE forum.

                                                            the idea behind is, that the developement team of Adobe has to solve the problem, because thinking to solve it by better compression teechniques or something so that it can run faster along the internet.

                                                            It could be partly a solution.

                                                            But why could youtube this big reslution and bigger better ?

                                                            Or are also Youtube servers in Europa and is placed my movies on there ?

                                                            I think it is mainly a problem of the output of the Photoshop.com servers and the hops between me and Photoshop.com.

                                                            I think those servers are mainly intended to handle photo's and no tmovies.

                                                            Because of this, it could be slower.

                                                            I think the developement team has not realized this by the developement of PRe 9.

                                                            **********

                                                            now the other issue re-discovered again by this experiments!!

                                                            Is there somebody who can tell me or it is a Mercalli issue and Prodad has to look at it or is it a PRE 9 issue ??

                                                             

                                                            Steve do you think i may contacted Prodad, without getting problems with ADOBE ?

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Frits

                                                            • 28. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                              nealeh Level 5

                                                              Frits Egelie wrote:

                                                               

                                                              look at this video: see the edges. It was also with the use of Mercalli 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_es_6bp7nDg&hd=1

                                                              That link produces a "This video is private." message.

                                                               

                                                              Cheers,
                                                              --
                                                              Neale
                                                              Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                              • 29. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                                I will unlock this!

                                                                 

                                                                Frits

                                                                • 30. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                  Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                                  Neale,

                                                                   

                                                                  i have made it public!

                                                                   

                                                                  frits

                                                                  • 31. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                                                    Just to clarify, Frits, YouTube will not make it play better.

                                                                     

                                                                    YouTube will shrink the video and reduce the quality so that it will stream better over the internet.

                                                                    • 32. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                      nealeh Level 5

                                                                      Frits Egelie wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      look at this video: see the edges. It was also with the use of Mercalli 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_es_6bp7nDg&hd=1

                                                                      Whoaaahhh. That will induce motion sickness! I've never seen such bouncing in anything produced from PRE7.

                                                                       

                                                                      • Were you using any motion tracking on any of the children?
                                                                      • Are you able to disable Mercalli to produce a wholly PRE youtube output?
                                                                      • Maybe you could try John Cloudman's suggestions in How can I get the best quality on YouTube?

                                                                       

                                                                      Cheers,
                                                                      --
                                                                      Neale
                                                                      Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                                      • 33. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                        Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                                        Neale,

                                                                         

                                                                        id onot use motion tracking. but Mercaali 2 to stabilize my handshaking.

                                                                        I have heavily zoomed wiht my camera so , Mercaali 2 is needed.

                                                                        try this one:

                                                                         

                                                                        http://www.photoshop.com/accounts/e19f51afd4fa4cf691750432dbe19de7/px-assets/a06000e555314 827ac223fc1f46e3f07

                                                                         

                                                                        on pphotoshop.com.

                                                                         

                                                                        the same also with Mercalli2.

                                                                        so one is outputted to Photoshop.com and the next ( the same to Youtube)

                                                                         

                                                                        Frits

                                                                        • 34. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                          Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                                          steve ,

                                                                           

                                                                          i think PRE / photoshop.com does the same.

                                                                          I will look in my private discussion with Charlie D.

                                                                           

                                                                          Frits

                                                                          • 35. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                            nealeh Level 5

                                                                            Frits Egelie wrote:

                                                                             

                                                                            look at this video: see the edges. It was also with the use of Mercalli 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_es_6bp7nDg&hd=1

                                                                            I've just made a mask to hold against my screen showing just the very central (approx 60%) portion of your video, shielding the edges and black borders (i.e. hiding the up/down 'bouncing'). Viewed like this it looks an acceptably steady video.  I think if you can first eliminate the black borders (see earlier link to the FAQ entry on youtube) then see if the up/down issue disappears.

                                                                             

                                                                            Cheers,
                                                                            --
                                                                            Neale
                                                                            Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                                            • 36. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                              Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                                              Steve,

                                                                               

                                                                              partly :

                                                                               

                                                                              I can tell you that video that's encoded by Phototshop.com is encoded at

                                                                              approx 2Mbps, which should play more smoothly.

                                                                               

                                                                              and this :

                                                                               

                                                                              Video that's encoded by Phototshop.com is encoded as an MP4 h.264 video at

                                                                              approx 2Mbps at a maximum resolution of 1280x720, which should play more

                                                                              smoothly for you.

                                                                              If you want to maintain a 1280x720 dimension, you were correct to try saving

                                                                              the video from Elements to your desktop first, then uploading it to

                                                                              Photoshop.com.

                                                                              You can also experiment by saving it as an MPG or AVI as an intermediate

                                                                              step before uploading to Photoshop.com

                                                                              Also, from the Elements Share menu, there is an option to Publish video to

                                                                              Photoshop.com.

                                                                              However, that encodes all video at a maximum resolution of 640x480, which

                                                                              may be too small to suit your needs.

                                                                              Video larger than 1280x720 will be scaled down to this size, which is why

                                                                              your 1440x video was scaled down.

                                                                              Try saving it from Elements as a 1280x720 video to ensure the same

                                                                              resolution on Photoshop.com

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                              Frits

                                                                              • 37. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                                Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                                                Steve,

                                                                                 

                                                                                look and or search for 1280 x 720 on Youtube and you find lots of them and

                                                                                playing without yerkey output.

                                                                                see for instance :

                                                                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0cnamknYBg&hd=1

                                                                                 

                                                                                frits

                                                                                • 38. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                                  Frits Egelie Level 1

                                                                                  Neale,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  you don't understand it:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Mercaali 2  works fine wit hPRE 9 together.

                                                                                  See also the photoshop.com url.

                                                                                  But i discovered this phenomenae a year or more ago wiht Mercalli 1

                                                                                  I di write to Prodad but i don't get never answer.

                                                                                  So, i use very seldom youtube.and i was forgooten this issue.

                                                                                  Now, by the testings of Web-DVD's i did a output to Youtuibe , to compare

                                                                                  these two.

                                                                                  now popsup again the Mercaali 2 issue again.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  So, i go do not doing anything to make the output to youtiube right.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  It is for the visual for Prodad and of course for the frum user , i nthe

                                                                                  hope they can tell me how to handle Mercalli or PRE 9 to prevent

                                                                                  such a output.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Frits

                                                                                  • 39. Re: WEB-DVD's
                                                                                    nealeh Level 5

                                                                                    I see the photoshop.com version (without black borders) and it seems to me that the clip has been cropped to leave just the stable portion (which is what I would expect now that I understand mercaali is image stabilisation). The opening still image shows as "1,024px × 576px (scaled to 940px × 529px)" and the actual video frame on the movie 1272*686.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    It took a couple of minutes though to download the first few seconds (I'm in the UK and my broadband download speed is only 980 kbps) so it seems not just Nederlands that has the slow routing. Indeed, trying again, I've taken seven minutes to get ten seconds of the video from photoshop.com

                                                                                     

                                                                                    For your youtube problem  I think you will have to apply the PRE crop effect, leaving only the central portion like that on the photoshop.com version.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    [EDIT] Twenty-five  minutes in and I've now got 45 seconds footage. It is clear that there are still image stabilisation issues, now more noticeable on the left/right wobble.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Cheers,
                                                                                    --
                                                                                    Neale
                                                                                    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Added [EDIT]

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