35 Replies Latest reply on Jul 22, 2011 5:07 PM by westonwoodbury

    External Monitoring Problem

    William Spence Level 1

      I have a Canopus ADVC-300 that I use as a firewire box to do my external monitoring.  I use it successfully everyday with Sony Vegas and Adobe After Effects.  But for some reason, I have not been able to get it to work with any version of Premiere Pro.  I have the Master Collections for CS4 and CS5, so I have both Premiere CS4 and CS5 and neither work.  When I go to Preferences>Player Settings, the only option I have from the pulldown menu is Adobe Player, there is no OHCI IEEE or DV option, just Adobe Player.  Under Sequence Settings>Playback Settings, there is an option for DV: 23.976 720x480p device, but selecting that does not seem to work.  I don't know that it matters that the option is in the Sequence Settings since I am not able to access the device in the Preferences section.  I know that Windows is seeing the device because when I turn it on, an Autoplay pops up and gives me options for using my video device, and it definitely works fine with After Effects and Vegas.  So any thoughts?  Am I looking in the right places to make sure that Premiere is seeing my device?

       

      Thanks for any help or suggestions!

        • 1. Re: External Monitoring Problem
          wizard studio

          You are in the right way (DV output is under sequence settings), but sometime PP won't reconise some DV devices.

          Can you export on a tape?

          Try to do that: file:export:export to tape.

          If it don't work it's because PP can't comunicate/reconise your DV devices.

           

          Hope can help you

           

          ps. sorry about my poor english

          • 2. Re: External Monitoring Problem
            Colin Brougham Level 6

            Are you using hardware/GPU acceleration with MPE? If so, you need to disable GPU acceleration; DV output does not work when the GPU is in effect.

            • 3. Re: External Monitoring Problem
              William Spence Level 1

              Colin, YOU ARE THE MAN!!!  Thanks, I was really pulling my hair out.  But I have got to ask, how in the world did you figure that out?  That is not an obvious solution and I could not find it in any documentation.  Adobe touts the Mercury Playback Engine, so of course everyone is going to activate it and use it if they have the hardware for it.  You would think that they would make it clear that DV playback on an external device would be compromised.

               

              Just in case anyone else searches for this subject, I will finish the story.  Before I got your solution, I also tried hooking up just a regular DV tape camera to my computer using firewire, and again, I could see the video on the camera LCD or pass it through to my monitor using both Vegas and After Effects, but not Premiere.  I was begining to get really discouraged and I can tell you for certain that if you had not brought up this little nugget of information about deactivating GPU accellaration in the Project Settings, I would never have figured it out.

               

              SO THANK YOU COLIN!!!  Much appreciated.

              • 4. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                Jim_Simon Level 8
                You would think that they would make it clear that DV playback on an external device would be compromised.

                 

                I would think that adding a feature like MPE would not take away the ability for external monitoring, something that has been built into every major NLE for a very long while.

                 

                New features should only add functionality, never take it away.

                • 5. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                  shooternz Level 6

                  Adobe and PPRO really need to address the monitoring "issues".

                   

                  eg. why do sequences in the same project ...lose focus to the second monitor when switching back and forth?

                   

                  This is a major time waster for a hookup that works extremely well for external monitoring ....apart from the afore mentioned.

                   

                  Would seem a very, very  simple thing to fix.   ( I now actually call it a "bug" in front of my clients and colleagues because it is , irritating,predicatable and repeatable)

                   

                  As regards DV devices as a link to external monitoring.  This is  really only a half-a*rsed  measure to monitoring for HD timelines and more suited to SD.timelines.

                  • 6. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    Ideally Premiere should have some form of built-in external monitoring (meaning no specialty third party cards required) for both SD and HD, with MPE on or off.

                    • 7. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                      shooternz Level 6

                      Its built in already.

                       

                      You dont need much special for SD ( a DV device as an interface) and you dont

                      actually need anything special or extra for HD ... in fact we have all we need  at the moment ...except it works in a broken fashion.

                       

                      Why does no one from Adobe respond to this issue.   (I and others have asked for comments...)

                       

                      Its the "elephant in the room" thing and its makes a bit of a mockery of "Pro".

                       

                      Maybe Adobe is happy with the way it "does and doesnt work" all at the same time.

                       

                      Its an identical issue to automatic Opacity Key frames.  (It does and it doesnt work at the same time.)

                       

                      Why do they make something "half work"?

                      • 8. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                        Powered by Design Level 4

                        @ shooterz

                         

                        You need to take your camera and shoot your screens showing this problem and how it happens all the time.

                         

                        Then upload it to YouTube.

                         

                        Maybe after they see how many people look at the video and comment on it, it might get fixed.

                         

                        Just a thought:   GLenn

                        • 9. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                          > Maybe after they see how many people look at the video and comment on it, it might get fixed.

                           

                           

                          Submitting feature requests and bug reports and discussing things on this forum are far more likely to result in the changes that you are asking for. Scattering the conversation just makes it harder for us to follow and follow up on.

                          • 10. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                            shooternz Level 6

                            Thing is Todd....

                             

                            We are informed that the only way to get Features / Bugs considered is by volume of requests.

                             

                            Somethings like this (and the opacity key frames "issue") need to be opened in the User to User Forum  to establish  if it is in the application "by design" and has a purpose that users like or find helpful.

                             

                            I have never get any traction in the forum about "my" Opacity Key Frame issue so I assume all other users think its great.  (I have made more than one Feature Requests though and offered to explain in detail why it is such an issue for me).

                             

                            This is now effectively a dead end for me on both fronts.  (Doesnt mean I will ever like the way it works though - my bad!). 

                             

                            The external monitor that needs resetting off between sequences  is just one of those things that is inexplicable but no one else appears to have any issue with it.  eg Powered by Design needs a video to see what is happening to me. Obviously it is of no concern to him or others.

                             

                            I think a Feature request (fix) would be pointless considering lack of support for it.

                             

                            Its not a show stopper but I do get embarrased when the client repeatedly has to remind me ......." can we see it on the big screen again please".

                            • 11. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                              I understand, Craig. When I saw this thread on Friday afternoon, my thought was "On Monday, I should talk with the designer about this". In other words, we hear you, and the fact that we're not responding immediately doesn't mean that we're not paying attention to what is said here and trying to figure out how to make things better.

                               

                              I was just disagreeing with GLenn's suggestion about next steps.

                               

                              For what it's worth, this time happens to be an especially busy one for us, so our level of engagement in direct conversations on this forum isn't as high as it sometimes is. We're still listening, but we don't have quite as much time to immediately respond to each question right now.

                              • 12. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                SteveHoeg Adobe Employee

                                We are aware DV output is still an important part of many workflows. For anyone relying on this functionality we suggest using software rendering which should preserve all functionality of previous releases meaning nothing has been lost transitioning to CS5. Enabling DV output while using GPU acceleration is quite difficult for technical reasons. If this is important to you, as Todd suggests please submit a feature request to help us prioritize it accordingly. In the mean time for external monitoring, full screen second head out fully supports all GPU accelerated features as well as supporting any resolution and 10-bit monitoring on capable displays. Excellent third party options are also available for professional monitoring solutions.

                                 

                                I don't seem to be able to reproduce the mentioned issue of the second head disappearing when switching between timelines in the same project, can you provide precise step-by-step instructions to see it, and give more information about your system configuration.

                                • 13. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                  shooternz Level 6

                                  @ SteveHoeg

                                   

                                  Some details

                                   

                                  FX3800  Win 64

                                  720p P2 Preset Project

                                  Multiple sequences identical to the preset  (approx 5 would be usual for me)

                                  2nd monitor is exclusively dedicated to full screen Playback of Source, Program and Project Window monitors.

                                  The second monitor is selected from the Playback menu ( in every instance of each sequence)

                                   

                                  The Project Window Monitor - always plays out to the second monitor ( from all sequences ...any time)

                                   

                                  The Source Monitor ( or direct scrub of the timeline) always without fail, needs to be reminded that it should be playing to the second monitor if coming and going through the sequences.  It occasionaly decides to forget to play to 2nd monitor even when not flipping through the Sequences.  I havenot established what the trigger is for that quirk.

                                   


                                  my procedure to "remind it" is to go to the Playback drop down and click .  It restores playback immediately to 2nd monitor.

                                  • 14. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                    RDA972 Level 3

                                    I haven't been able to reproduce the issue you are having either.

                                    I can switch between 5 different sequences/timelines and toggle between the source and program monitors and it always plays to the second monitor.

                                    FWIW, I am using a Quadro 5000, Win 64 and XDCAM EX footage.

                                    • 15. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                      Powered by Design Level 4

                                      I never wanted to scatter the conversation Todd.

                                       

                                      I just wanted to see a video.  Keep all comments here.

                                       

                                      I just find it easer to see if I can re-create the problem when I have a video showing how it is not working for them.

                                       

                                       

                                      GLenn

                                       

                                       

                                      Todd_Kopriva wrote:

                                      Scattering the conversation just makes it harder for us to follow and follow up on.

                                      • 16. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                        shooternz Level 6

                                        @RDA972

                                         

                                        That is really interesting and the type of dialogue I was encouraging. ( I can maybe see the light here)

                                         

                                        Let me add this to the mix.

                                         

                                        When I installed CS5...unlike all previous versions...I decided to work off the Standard ADOBE Edit Workspace  in a SINGLE  Monitor ( 27") instead of settting up the workspace across TWO ( 24") Monitors (as previously) .

                                         

                                         

                                        Just maybe ..this is the reason I am dropping out of the second monitor ( MaAybe Steve Hoeg can test this as well.)

                                         

                                        RDA972.. Please advise how you set up your workspaces.  I am guessing you have broken the PPRO panes and windows across 2 Monitors.

                                        • 17. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                          RDA972 Level 3

                                          "I am guessing you have broken the PPRO panes and windows across 2 Monitors"

                                           

                                          Nope.

                                          As you put it, "I work off the Standard ADOBE Edit Workspace in a SINGLE Monitor" (a 30" Dell monitor).

                                          I send the timeline out to a video monitor (a Sony LMD 2450) via the second Display Port of my Quadro 5000 hooked up to the Sony's DVI input.

                                          I also use an SDI connection between my Decklink Extreme and the Sony monitor for critical evaluation but it's a trade-off between quality and real time performance.

                                          Hope that helps.

                                           

                                          Monitor setup.jpg

                                          • 18. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                            SteveHoeg Adobe Employee

                                            Can you clarify the drop out, is the desktop shown or does the monitor go black?

                                            How is your second monitor connected to the graphics card? What cables and any connectors are used?

                                            Does unchecking "Disable video output when in the background" change any of your results?

                                            • 19. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                              Thrill Media Level 2

                                              Wild guess here...is your second monitor a Samsung with Anynet?

                                              • 20. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                RDA972 Level 3

                                                "I can switch between 5 different sequences/timelines and toggle between the source and program monitors and it always plays to the second monit

                                                "I am using a Quadro 5000, Win 64 and XDCAM EX footage."

                                                 

                                                I did the same with DV footage so the kind of footage you're using seems to be irrelevant.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                • 21. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                  shooternz Level 6

                                                  I send the timeline out to a video monitor (Samsung BX2440) via the second Display Port of my Quadro FX3800  . Connector is DVI at monitor

                                                   

                                                  The Screen turns Black on drop out.  Makes sense because I do not have any workspace extended to it (  just like RDA579)

                                                   

                                                  Does unchecking "Disable video output when in the background" change any of your results?

                                                   

                                                  No.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Will try my new HP Dream Color monitor when it arrives.

                                                   

                                                  Will check to see if it is anything to do with a Samsung menu as well.

                                                   

                                                  (No Samsung Anynet BTW)

                                                  • 22. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                    RDA972 Level 3

                                                    "No Samsung Anynet BTW"

                                                     

                                                    But you do have a Samsung monitor.

                                                    Thrill Media may be onto something here.

                                                    Hook up another monitor and see what happens.

                                                    Good luck, nod to Bill.

                                                    • 23. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                      shooternz Level 6

                                                      I havethe same issue withthe Sony monitor.

                                                       

                                                      What do you think it is about the Samsungs that may be cause?

                                                      • 24. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                        SteveHoeg Adobe Employee

                                                        We ran into this issue with several brands of DisplayPort-to-DVI monitor connectors. If you connect directly to a monitor without an adaptor you should no longer see this, or you might have luck with another brand. We have worked with NVIDIA and the problem appears to be manufacturer specific and there isn't much we can do about it. When your DreamColor arrives if you connect DisplayPort directly from the GPU to DisplayPort on the monitor you should no longer see this.

                                                        • 25. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                          shooternz Level 6

                                                          Thanx Steve.  I will follow through upon that info.

                                                           

                                                          This is going to be an expensive workaround

                                                          • 26. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                            RDA972 Level 3

                                                            That's good news.

                                                            By the way, what happens when you use the DVI to DVI connection (from the 3800's DVI display connector to the monitor's DVI input)?

                                                            Have you ever tried that?

                                                            Might be less painful.

                                                             

                                                            PS : in any case, hang the expense!!!

                                                            • 27. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                              William Spence Level 1

                                                              RDA972, thanks for the nod.  I have solved my monitoring problem and am now just enjoying the educational discussion and the fact that adobe is looking into the issues.

                                                               

                                                              Premiere Pro is a professional product, and in professional video editing packages, external monitoring needs to be right at the top of the priority list.  I as a professional, would have never thought to disable the Mercury Playback Engine hardware acceleration to enable external firewire monitoring, and I don't think many others would have as well.  Thinking that I was not as familiar with Premiere Pro as other NLE's, I went on a Google search for days trying to find others who were having similar issues and found no solutions, although lots of problems.  It is fantastic that Adobe Employees are aware and responding to the issue, and as an engineer, I like the problem solving.  But I really hope they are looking hard for a general solution for future releases, because I would hate to see Adobe lose market share because people can't figure out how to do the essential basics.  At the VERY least, I think there should be some documentation, a link, a troubleshooting guide, or something that let's people quickly and easily find solutions to the known problems. My 2 cents.

                                                              • 28. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                                William Spence Level 1

                                                                Just thinking out loud.  I know that this would only be a bandaid, not a solution, but Adobe could set it up so that if you choose a DV/firewire device in the Playback settings for external monitoring, that Premiere AUTOMATICALLY turns off the Mercury hardware acceleration and changes it to software while simutaneously displaying a pop-up that lets you know that this has happened and why.  As a result:

                                                                 

                                                                1.  You are aware that your hardware acceleration has been turned off and that your performance will take a hit.

                                                                2.  Your DV external monitoring will just work, period.

                                                                 

                                                                A bandaid like this could easily be added to Premiere as an update, wouldn't confuse the customers, and would give you more time to figure out a more elegant solution.

                                                                 

                                                                What do you think?

                                                                • 29. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                                  RDA972 Level 3

                                                                  "RDA972, thanks for the nod"

                                                                   

                                                                  Well, actually I was referring to Bill Hunt.

                                                                  Sorry about the potential confusion.

                                                                  • 30. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                    Hey, "good luck" is a terrible thing to waste, and that is why I attempt to bestow so much of it...

                                                                     

                                                                    Good luck to all,

                                                                     

                                                                    Hunt

                                                                    • 31. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                                      shooternz Level 6

                                                                      Hmmmm...my high hopes dashed again!

                                                                       

                                                                      I discovered that I was using a Display Port from my FX3800 to my Main Monitor and...

                                                                      I was using the DVI port from the FX3800 to the 2nd monitor 

                                                                      (there are 3 ports on an FX3800 of which only, any 2 can be used simultaneously)

                                                                       

                                                                      Ah haaa I thought...there is the problem right there.

                                                                       

                                                                      So...I changed it to using both Display Ports on the FX3800 connected to DVI Ports on each monitor.

                                                                       

                                                                      Not the fix I thought.  Didnt work any better....Darn.

                                                                       

                                                                      Will have to wait for the Dream Color (with Display ports each end of the cable). My expectation of this succeeding has been reduced..

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      (It still puzzles me why the Project Window mini-Monitor is instantly connected to 2nd monitor on all sequences)

                                                                      • 32. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                                        Thrill Media Level 2

                                                                        "What do you think it is about the Samsungs that may be cause?"

                                                                         

                                                                        I thought it might be a possibilty.  Too bad.

                                                                         

                                                                        FWIW, "anynet" is some kind of AV software that Samsung has developed and it causes me infinite problems on my home theater when using HDMI cables.  For example if I want to watch a BluRay on my PS3, I turn the system on and get the PS3 interface but when I put in a BluRay, Game or DVD the the system loses the signal for a second and I have to re-start it before I can continue.  You can disable "anynet" and that has helped but it is still problematic.  I thought possibly that may be happening with your setup when switching between sequences.

                                                                         

                                                                        Good luck in solving the issue!  I think it might still have something to do with the HDMI connection though if you are using HDMI/DVI adapters.

                                                                        • 33. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                                          westonwoodbury Level 1

                                                                          This may resurrecting an old thread, but I don't see any others that are much newer.

                                                                           

                                                                          +1 to figuring out DV playback while MPE is enabled.

                                                                           

                                                                          Alternative of a 2nd video card or an, at the cheapest, 400$ I/O gets expensive for multiple machines when in reality this should work & it's something that was already working/part of a workflow.

                                                                           

                                                                          Another bad part is that I spent extra to make sure I had qualified video cards that work for MPE, just to find out it needs turned off & kicked to software only :/ .

                                                                           

                                                                          I submitted a request already.

                                                                           

                                                                          - wb

                                                                          • 34. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                                            Preston Herrick Level 1

                                                                            Shooternz is not alone. I have the same issue when switching between sequences: The output to the second monitor disappears and I have to do the same procedure to get it back (my procedure to "remind it" is to go to the Playback drop down and click .  It restores playback immediately to 2nd monitor.)

                                                                             

                                                                            Clicking the source monitor sends it immediately. Clicking the Program monitor does not reestablish the output. Once it is established (using Shooternz's procedure) I can switch back and forth, Source/Program, no problem - until a different sequence is selected.

                                                                             

                                                                            This is with a GeForce series card, DVI out to a couple of Dell monitors.  (And, to date, the DV out is still an issue). Until now I've been using a Matrox MXO2 mini for external monitoring to LCD and CRT but, of late, it's been causing a lot of Nvidia TRD's and Premiere crashes.

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            • 35. Re: External Monitoring Problem
                                                                              westonwoodbury Level 1

                                                                              Preston,

                                                                               

                                                                              It's unfortunate monitoring options seems to cause so many extra crashes in Premiere.  At times I experience similar behaviour using Firewire DV out to monitor.  As soon as I kill the device and my monitor, the frequent crashing stops.  I figured higher end monitoring hardware would solve that issue, I guess not, if the MXO2 Mini is causing problems.

                                                                               

                                                                              - wb