14 Replies Latest reply on Nov 4, 2010 7:55 AM by Rossiter

    Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?

    Rossiter Level 1

      Hi, I'm working on a HDV 1080p25 project.

       

      The footage has been shot on a Canon EOS 7, and looks perfect.

       

      The client has also hired an animator to produce some sequences for editing in.

       

      The animator is using 3DMax.

       

      He's supplied a test set of numbered single frame jpg files, 1440 * 1080 (1:33 ratio) Progressive (no fields)

       

      But once rendered on the timeline, pans in the animation look jerky.

       

      What should I be asking him to render to best fit in the sequence?

       

      Or should I put his files in a different sequence setting, and render them to something useful myself?

       

      Unfortunately I think his system is very old (he says the files work perfectly for him in Premiere1.5) so I'm not sure what options will be available.

       

      All help appreciated.

       

      Thanks, Linda

        • 1. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          Pans at that frame rate do normally look jerky, depending on how fast the pan is.  Pay close attention next time you watch a movie on the big screen.  You'll notice it.

           

          Without seeing the problem for myself, only hearing it described, it seems very possible that what you're seeing is normal.

          • 2. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
            Rossiter Level 1

            Jim, thank you for taking an interest. Yes, it's quite possible that I'm being far too fussy, and that what I've got is acceptable.

             

            I've uploaded a couple of test files to yousendit: perhaps you won't mind taking the time to look:

             

            I got two sets of test files from the animator: one rendered "progressive", the other "lower fields"

             

            I put both sequences on a HDV 1080p25 timeline, and rendered out to high quality mp4.

             

            Here are the results:

             

            1080p25_P.mp4

            https://www.yousendit.com/download/dklyaXROR0Z6NEkwTVE9PQ

             

            1080p25_LOWER.mp4

            https://www.yousendit.com/download/dklyaXRIcVhLVlh2Wmc9PQ

             

            I've watched both files so many times I can't tell the difference any more. I presume the progressive one should be right. But confirmation would be good.

             

            If it would help, I could also upload the test images I have.

             

            Thanks, Linda

            • 3. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
              shooternz Level 6

              Hey Linda

               

              How many seq images were in that movie?

               

              Its duration is 5 secs 24 frames at 25 fps

               

              Is there 149 images or less in its construction?

              • 4. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                I've watched both files so many times I can't tell the difference any more.

                 

                There really is no difference in the uploaded files.  Both are 25p.

                 

                Also, the stuttering you see is very much in line with what I would expect to see for a pan of that speed at that frame rate.  The only way I think you'll smooth this out is if you redo the project at 720p/60, but that means also redoing the shoot as well.

                • 5. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                  shooternz Level 6

                  Might be worth Linda trying to build the animation and or the entire sequence in AEFX with

                  Pixel Motion and maybe frame blend.

                   

                  To be honest... I was thinking the MP4 may have induced some stuttering so itwas hard to evaluate if that was what she is seeing in the timeline.

                   

                  To me ..it was unacceptable if so.

                  • 6. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                    Rossiter Level 1

                    Thank you for everyone's comments. There were 131 images in the sequence.

                     

                    If anyone is able to investigate further: Here are the files:

                     

                    https://www.yousendit.com/download/dklyaXROOW5vQUkwTVE9PQ

                     

                    131 files rendered 1440*1080 1:33 ratio Progressive

                     

                    The advice that ideally like is:

                     

                    > What PPro (or AE) sequence setting I could use to render out the best version, say to mp4, that I could use within a 1080p25 sequence?

                     

                    > Or do I need to tell the animator to render out something different?

                     

                    Thanks, Linda

                    • 7. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                      davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                      (I've not actually watched your videos, but the other guys here have, so...) following their input of a frame rate too slow for the speed of

                      the pans you're doing, it won't matter what your animator renders his frames out to, if your project is only 25fps. The only way to get smoother pans is to speed up your project to 60fps, which would entail reshooting (or transcoding--which may or may not work) the video portions of your project.

                      • 8. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        I downloaded the sequence and played with it.  I'm seeing very similar stuttering both inside of Premiere and in exports.  My guess here is that's just the way it will look at 25 fps.

                        • 9. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                          Rossiter Level 1

                          If these files will always produce the same poor result, is there anything else I can ask the animator to do?

                           

                          This is a relatively small job. We're supposed to start on something larger shortly, but I'm not happy with this quality of work.

                           

                          btw: Remaking the programme at 60fps isn't feasible - the programmes are a mixture of shot footage and animation.

                           

                          All advice appreciated.

                           

                          Thanks, Linda

                          • 10. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                            Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            This may be more a question for after effects types.  The animator can slow the rate of change (i.e. slow his "pan"), and you may get improvement.  I wonder if you have to work with the rate being a multiple of the pixel change rate (e.g. movement rate of rolling titles).

                            • 11. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                              shooternz Level 6

                              Hey Linda

                               

                              I down loaded your sequence and tested it in AEFX

                               

                              I think it is a bit stuttery and more than I would like to view.

                               

                              I could improve it slightly by using "Motion Blur"  (an AEFX function)

                               

                              I do wonder if the fact they are jpegs is part of the issue?  (ie small compressed jpegs)

                               

                              I also think that the angularity of the line images compounds the issue.

                               

                              The other thing..is the animation is very linear and not ramped in the movement.  ie "easy ease"

                               

                              Can you get hold of seq tga or seq.tiffs preferably.

                              • 12. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                                Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                I downloaded the files and put it in the timeline: some stuttering.

                                Rendered the timeline: no stuttering at full playback resolution

                                Downloaded both mp4: played smooth in wmp.

                                I would not have choosen jpeg for a sequence but png or tiff.

                                Btw i am in pal-land.

                                • 13. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                                  If these files will always produce the same poor result, is there anything else I can ask the animator to do?

                                   

                                  You've run into the limitations of progressive video at low frame rates--whether computer-generated or produced from some type of imaging device, you'll see this effect on this type of motion. This isn't a problem with Premiere or the 3D animation program or the image format or anything else; it's simply physics.

                                   

                                  My suggestion would be similar to what Craig (shooternz) suggested below: have your animator see if it is possible to add some motion blur in the 3D animation program (I'm not familiar with the program so I can't say for sure that this is a possibility. This would, presumably, be a feature/option of the "camera" used to shoot the scene. That may help to soften the stutter a bit, though whether you like the softening effect is for you to decide.

                                   

                                  The other suggestions of changing the speed of the pan (by increasing its duraiton) or changing the motion to something different (a push, for example) would be other things to consider as well. Since you're stuck with the frame rate of your other footage, thouse would be the best considerations.

                                  1 person found this helpful
                                  • 14. Re: Format for single frame numbered graphic sequences?
                                    Rossiter Level 1

                                    Thank you to everyone for your input. This format is excellent, and all suggestions have been appreciated.

                                     

                                    The animator has done some new tests using motion blur, which has improved things.

                                     

                                    I also found that a little camera blur in Ppro didn't hurt.

                                     

                                    And I've ensured that other sequences don't have the same fast pans - I'm clearly expecting too much.

                                     

                                    Thank you all very much.