13 Replies Latest reply: Apr 16, 2012 10:37 AM by Joel Cherney RSS

    Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5

    olson@echominnesota.org

      Hi! I am unable to get inDesign to replicate correct Cambodian fonts. I've downloaded a wide variety and though they are correct in word, they do not work in inDesign, the differences are very small, a few missing characters, incorrect symbols, etc.  I've attached a photo of what the font should look like (top) and what it comes through as in inDesign (bottom).  Look at line two, in inDesign note the missing j-like symbols and crosses that don't belong but are replacing something else. I feel like I've tried everything and nothing is working. Please help, I would greatly appreciate it!!

      Cambodian font picture.png

        • 1. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
          Joel Cherney CommunityMVP

          Honestly, I'm a little reluctant to answer. Cambodian script is, without a doubt, just about as hard as it gets, in terms of DTP. Not only is the script itself mind-bogglingly challenging, but there is also a profusion of poorly encoded fonts. If you just downloaded some random fonts from the Web, then you may not even have correct display in Word. Are you sure that it's displaying correctly in Word?

           

          Do you know whether you're using a true Unicode font, or one of those interim quasi-Unicode abortions, or a font in some other encoding? I'm guessing it's the last of these, but if you don't already know, then you are probably up the creek without a paddle.

           

          Do you have the World-Ready Composer on? Do you know what it is?

           

          Do you know if your linebreak in the title is valid?

          • 2. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
            olson@echominnesota.org Community Member

            Thank you for your response. I have been working with a Cambodian translator, he was the individual who wrote the word document. I am completely sure that it is correct. First, he sent it to me in the Khmer OS font and I got the missed characters and odd symbols in inDesign. Second, he re-wrote it and sent it to me in the Kh Moul font with the same results on my end.

             

            To be completely honest, I know nothing about fonts and this is the first issue I've had (I also work with Vietnamese and Lao). I don't know if it's Unicode, etc., and I also don't know if I have the World-Ready Composer on. After a quick search online, I can't even find how to turn it on! I know that my linebreaks in the indesign document are incorrect. I just quickly dropped in the symbols to see if they would appear correctly. However, as I said before, they are correct in the Word document.

             

            Double whammy, I also need to make this work for chyron (television graphics). I'm hoping if I figure out inDesign, it will use the same fix.

             

            Thank you for any help that you provide!

            • 3. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
              Harbs. CommunityMVP

              This one-line script will activate the World Ready composer for the selected text:

               

              app.selection[0].composer = "$ID/HL Composer Optyca";

               

              Harbs

              • 4. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
                Joel Cherney CommunityMVP
                First, he sent it to me in the Khmer OS font and I got the missed characters and odd symbols in inDesign. Second, he re-wrote it and sent it to me in the Kh Moul font with the same results on my end.

                Long story short - Unicode fonts like the KhmerOS font should work if the world-ready composer is on. I don't recognize "Kh Moul" but you can test to see if it should work. If you open up the Glyphs menu (Type -> Glyphs) and pick the Cambodian font of your choice, and then hold the mouse over a character, it should report the name of the character in a mouseover popup. If you see something like "LATIN CAPITAL LETTER OE" or something like that, or no character name at all, it means it's a bad font and cannot be trusted in InDesign. Most of the Cambodian fonts I've seen are font-hacks like this (where the English letter is erased and replaced with a Cambodian character). I've made those work in the past, but it usually requires editing the font.

                Double whammy, I also need to make this work for chyron (television graphics). I'm hoping if I figure out inDesign, it will use the same fix.

                The World-Ready Composer turns on some features of InDesign that allow it to support complex scripts like Cambodian, if the font is constructed correctly. It's a feature of InDesign, so if it works, you won't be able to assume that it will work in any other application. I searched the Chyron knowledge base and found nothing, but nothing, about Unicode or complex script fonts or anything like that. You'll probably need to make images of your text, so you will need to find out the target specifications from whomever is setting this up for you. If you have that spec but don't know what to do with it, I'm sure that we can help you figure out how to spit a file out of InDesign that the teevee people will be able to use.

                • 5. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
                  olson@echominnesota.org Community Member

                  I've never used scripts before and though I can find the scripts panel, I can't figure out how to load in the one-line script that you gave me, and activate it. Could you please give me a step by step? Thank you for your answer.

                  • 6. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
                    olson@echominnesota.org Community Member

                    This is helpful. I have double checked the glyphs. It turns out that Kh Moul is a bad font - nothing even popped up. However, I did double check my Khmer OS and what popped up did not read "LATIN CAPITAL LETTER OE" or something like that.

                     

                    The route you suggest with converting the letters into images for chyron was something I was considering. However, I had thought of taking the photoshop path. I emailed the television station about specs earlier today and hope to hear back by tomorrow.

                     

                    Thank you so much for your answer!

                    • 7. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
                      Joel Cherney CommunityMVP

                      No problem at all; you're one of us. People who get to typeset the world's hardest <cough> coolest scripts are few and far between.

                       

                      Installing scripts varies from version to version; here's a useful resource that will show you how to do it in any version of ID.

                       

                      To make the one-liner that Harbs posted (thanks, Harbs!) into a script, you can just paste it into an empty raw text file (with e.g. Notepad) and save it. Then rename the file extension to .jsx. (Your computer might not be set up to show file extensions - just let us know if you have no idea what I'm talking about.)

                      • 8. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
                        olson@echominnesota.org Community Member

                        It worked! I'm absolutely ecstatic! Thank you both so so much, my Cambodian font is appearing complete and beautiful in inDesign.

                         

                        I'm going to talk to the television person today and determine what her specs are for the chyron. More info on that shortly.

                         

                        Thank you again.

                        • 9. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
                          olson@echominnesota.org Community Member

                          The chyron is proving to be a more difficult fix. We have decided the best way to approach the issue is to export the text into a eps file from inDesign, it can be used in that format. Not optimal, but it will work.

                          • 10. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
                            Thavro

                            I am curious, what kind of Khmer fonts are you using? ខ្ញុំប្រើ ខ្មែរយូនីខូដ អត់មានបញ្ហាអ្វីទេជាមួយអក្សរខ្មែរ ប្រសិនជាខ្ញុំសរសេរអក្សរខ្មែរ នៅលើឯកសារបង្កើតថ្មី ដោយប្រើ ID. SC5 តែម្តង។ ប៉ុន្តែបើសិនជាខ្ញុំចម្លងអត្ថបទពី ID. CS3 ឬក៏ចាស់ជាងនេះ ខ្ញុំនឹងមានបញ្ហា ដោយស្រះមួយចំនួននៅខុសកន្លែង ជាពិសេសទៅទៀត គឺខ្ញុំមិនអាចកែបាន។ ខ្ញុំចង់ដឹងថា តើលោកអ្នកដែលប្រើ ខ្មែរយូនីខូដ មានជួបបញ្ហាដូចខ្ញុំដែរឬទេ? បើមាន តើលោកអ្នកដោះស្រាយបញ្ហានេះដោយរបៀបណាដែរ? សូមលោកអ្នកជួយបំភ្លឺខ្ញុំផង។ ខ្ញុំសូមអរគុណទុកជាមុន។

                            • 11. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
                              olson@echominnesota.org Community Member

                              Greetings Thavro,

                               

                              I used Khmer OS in inDesign, but the Chyron uses Kh system.

                              • 12. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
                                bastman99

                                I'm also dealing with a Khmer layout at the moment. I am already using the World-Ready composer which displays the symbols correctly. And thanks to this thread and another website (http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2011/11/how-to-enable-more-languages-in-indesign-cs5-5 .html#comments) I also installed the Khmer dictionary and tried a script but I still don't get the right hyphenation for my Khmer paragraphs since there is no Khmer hyphenation dictionary installed. Is such a dictionary available somewhere?

                                • 13. Re: Cambodian fonts won't work in inDesign CS5
                                  Joel Cherney CommunityMVP

                                  Not so far as I know. Apparently Khmer Hunspell dictionaries don't work in InDesign. I don't know if the Khmer Hunspell dictionary has hyphenation support, but that'd be one of your only options. I suspect that you might be able to automate the addition of discretionary hyphens outside of ID before importing, but that might be your only option.