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1. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 5, 2010 7:14 AM (in response to woodwizer)oh oh
K-lite has a bad reputation for killing your editing environment....has codecs that interferes with premiere codecs etc...
most people recommend uninstalling k-lite ...
some people claim the only way to get rid of k-lite is to reformat your hard drive and reinstall OS and all programs from scratch...
nightmare !
another issue...dont know who recommended you use mpeg 2 dvd stuff...that is 'DELIVERY' only...to make DVD...
Basically its a format of compression ( LOTS of compression ) to WATCH only...not edit...
You should convert your stuff to something nicer than that...
In my neck of the woods (NTSC) I usually convert to AVI using lagarith ( lossless codec ) or something like that...
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2. Re: MPG2 Issues
Bill Hunt Nov 5, 2010 8:06 AM (in response to able123)Yes, for many, K-Lite (and other CODEC "packs") is like a box of scary snakes, and "black mamba" in that box is FFDShow. It has caused no end to problems with Adobe NLE's. Very few users have been able to work with it installed, and it can be a bear (or scary snake) to remove completely. Harm usually mentions a full wipe and reformat of the system HDD.
Good luck,
Hunt
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3. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 5, 2010 8:25 AM (in response to Bill Hunt)ugh What a complete nightmare this is!
I installed the K-Lite pack in desperation after I saw it reffered to as being compatible with Premiere! Bill it's interesting you mention ffdshow as I suspect it's that causing the issue.
I have uninstalled K-Lite and everything that I can see that might be related. Even went through the registry and deleted all reference to ffdshow. But I still can't get it to play ball! This is happening on 2 machines.
The reason I was converting to MPEG2 was a previous article on here about proxy editing. The idea being to use low quality clips to do the editing, then swapping them out for the M2T HD files for final encoding.
I'm now trying to find a way to downconvert the M2t clips to an SD format. I know both my machines can handle SD fine. But even this is a whole new thing to learn. Muxing, DeMuxing, Transcoding, etc, etc. All confusing!! Does AME do this? If so which setting? Uncompressed AVI?
Help most apprecieated
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4. Re: MPG2 Issues
John T Smith Nov 5, 2010 8:44 AM (in response to woodwizer)Tools to Convert to DV-AVI
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/415317?tstart=0
Convert http://premierepro.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:How_do_I_convert_my_files%3F
Convert your files to DV-AVI Type II with 48KHz 16-bit Audio
.
I have NOT used the products below, I only forward due to other mentions
.
$99 http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Product/1175714228541#tabview=tab0
$99 http://www.womble.com/products/mvw.html
$90 http://www.magix.com/us/movie-edit-pro/ plus $5 Ship
$80 http://www.nchsoftware.com/prism/index.html
$75 http://www.videoredo.com/en/index.htm
$70 http://www.nchsoftware.com/prism/index.html Converter
$40 http://www.daniusoft.com/dvd-ripper.html#135
$40 http://www.deskshare.com/dmc.aspx Digital Media Converter
$20 http://www.topsoftwareol.com/product/Video/Video_Converter_Standard.html
$00 http://www.dvddecrypter.org.uk/ or http://www.mrbass.org/dvdrip/
$00 http://www.squared5.com/ MPEG Streamclip Converter
$00 http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html Multi-Converter <-- supposed to be very good
$00 http://www.virtualdub.org/ Mpeg to AVI Converter -
5. Re: MPG2 Issues
JaysonM-Y Nov 5, 2010 8:46 AM (in response to woodwizer)lol, the whole point of your proxy is to not have the file size and resource required for Uncompressed media and yet to not use extremely compressed media that would still put pressure on your system(like h.264)....The last time I did this was using quicktime with phtojpeg... but that was testing, since then I really didn't need to do that.....
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6. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 5, 2010 9:19 AM (in response to woodwizer)hmmm,
maybe for now just get your machine back in working order without the ffdshow or k lite stuff getting in the way...so use SD for now and maybe try proxy stuff for hd later...? Besides, it wouldnt be bad to just learn more about whats up with stuff before moving on to proxy stuff anyway...
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I'm now trying to find a way to downconvert the M2t clips to an SD format. I know both my machines can handle SD fine. But even this is a whole new thing to learn. Muxing, DeMuxing, Transcoding, etc, etc. All confusing!! Does AME do this? If so which setting? Uncompressed AVI?
-------
about 10 months ago I was in same boat. everyone here helped me learn a lot...
some of the terms are confusing and between broadcast tv ( interlaced ) and progressive and all that, it was kinda overwhelming sometimes.
One good thing to know...EVERYONE in the world is TOTALLY overwhelmed with all the different video formats and codecs now in use..its a revolution and anyone who says it is not sometimes insane is probably lying to you....so you are not crazy to be confused.
muxing is just mixing sound with video so the audio is embedded in the video file. de-muxing is simply extracting the audio to a separate audio file from the video file...
transcoding is just changing from one format / codec to another ( codec = COmpression DECompression ) .
Yes, AME does everything , except a few things it doesnt do as well as other programs do....
Uncompressed AVI is such a small difference from Compressed AVI you would probably NOT "see" the difference...and compressed just makes the file size ( byte count ) a bit smaller....
The trick is to decide
!) what you have
2) what you need to edit
3) what you want to "deliver"
Then get help here to make that happen..if you want
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7. Re: MPG2 Issues
JSS1138 Nov 5, 2010 10:24 AM (in response to woodwizer)or try either proxy editing
I know that's the cheaper option, but upgrading your rig really in the preferable one. So much so that I feel whoever suggested the other options really shouldn't have.
Do things right. Get the hardware you need for the job.
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8. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 5, 2010 2:39 PM (in response to woodwizer)Thanks everyone. I just don't know what's going wrong. Well, I do. But I can't seem to convert these M2T files into anything editable. It's weird, because the SDV from the same camera worked fine. No problems.
I think as a last resort, I'm going to have to re-hire the camera and convert is to SD as I capture. If THAT doesn't work then I may consider re-formating one of my PCs to see if it is the codec pack that is causing some of the problem.
Upgrading the hardware is easy to say and I completely agree. But I just don't have the cash for that. I just spent the last of my available cash on a 2nd copy of PremCS4. Wish I had saved it to put towards new hardware now.
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9. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 5, 2010 3:32 PM (in response to woodwizer)can you post a screenshot of gspot or mediainfo ( tree view ) of one of your m2t files?
can you share a small ( very small ) sample of an m2t file ?? ( your own website, ftp, whatever ? )
--------
also, mainconcept makes plug ins for premiere...HD pro or mpeg 4 pro, something like that...free version that allows exporting up to about 5 mins of timeline only...and puts a watermark on the video....but I'm thinking maybe installing that plug in will clear away previous mess up with k lite stuff ...see if you can import your m2t stuff....
Then uninstall the plug in after testing....see if it cleared up the mess ? just having wild ideas of last resort ....
ps..I missed all the posts about your machine, its limitations...so if you really know theres no way your hardware can handle this m2t stuff I wouldnt try the mainconcept plug in thing..
theres got to be some converter you can use to downscale the m2t stuff...to something editable at SD
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11. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 5, 2010 4:19 PM (in response to woodwizer)ok here's a link to a zipped m2t file
http://www.wizer.co.uk/video/Strictly3-0033.zip
and here's a screenshot of the file from media info
It would really help if a couple of people could tell me if this works on their system. Just in case there is a slim chance that it's the files at fault.
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12. Re: MPG2 Issues
Ann Bens Nov 5, 2010 5:01 PM (in response to woodwizer)I understand the hdv footage is from a Canon A1.
If your system is underpowered for hdv your best option is to lend a A1 or a Canon HV20/30/40 and capture the footage as SD.
I do not believe software converters do a good job.
If your are on CS3 the reason you do not have audio with your hdv footage is because CS3 does not have an AC3 filter on board.
To get audio for your hdv footage in Premiere you need to copy the file ad2ac3dec.dll from Encore and paste this in the root of Premiere.
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13. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 5, 2010 5:07 PM (in response to Ann Bens)Thanks Ann. I'm actually using CS4. I think you're right, re-hiring the camera and re-capturing is my only option. ugh!
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14. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 5, 2010 8:05 PM (in response to woodwizer)IF YOU WANT..
http://rodneybauer.com/whiteboard3.htm
right click on avi link, use "save link as" and you can download the avi file...35 meg...called MY strictly xxx avi ...
avi file is dv pal progressive 16:9, non square pixel, 720x576 with audio.
put in editor ( project that is dv pal 16:9, progressive, 720x576 ) and see how it looks and if you can edit it OK...make some cuts and add some cross dissolves...test out...
To get that was quite the experience...so if you can reshoot easily do that...otherwise this can be done but it sure is jumping through a lot of hoops...
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15. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 5, 2010 8:13 PM (in response to able123)Hmmm, thats interesting...
I just put the m2t file into my dv pal project and scaled it down and it plays fine and you can export THAT directly without having to convert first..
and has sound...is OK...once exported to avi you can reimport the avi and not have to use all the computer resources of the HD footage piling up on you...
Im using cs3...
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16. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 5, 2010 8:27 PM (in response to able123)wow...this gets better and better...
shouldnt have assumed there was something "wrong" with the m2t file....and that it had to be converted...duh...dumb move on my part...
try this...works good for me...using cs3
make new project using custom and desktop settings.. no presets...
25 fps
1440x1080 16:9
pixel aspect ratio : HD anamorphic 1080 (1.333)
no fields
25 fps timecode
48khz sound
rendering --
video for windows
UT video codec : YUV422 ( ULY2x86)
see how your m2t footage looks in that project...
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17. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 5, 2010 8:34 PM (in response to able123)If that works for you ( the HD project )...then you can export to AVI SD if your computer gets bogged down...
let us know how things go and we can help you with the right export settings for the avi file...then you can use the AVI files instead for editing and you should be OK with SD footage
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18. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 6, 2010 3:06 AM (in response to woodwizer)NEWS FLASH!!!
That file that you converted WORKED! It works brrilliantly, no stuttering, picture looked fine, edited fine, exported FINE!
However, I must admit I was a bit confused with the rest of what you said. I don't seem to be able to customise the settings in CS4 as you do in CS3? You can alter the presets, but not build your own from scratch? Or am I missing something?
Which ever preset I choose, I can't get the M2T files to play at all. They show the pic then run for 2 secs, then you just hear the audio. So perhaps you have better hardware than me?
Could you please tell me how you down converted the M2T file? If I can do it my self then I'd rather give it a go. Otherwise I have to re-hire the camera for a day and hope that it will convert well enough through the camera.
Thanks so much for helping me!
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19. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 6, 2010 3:08 AM (in response to woodwizer)Converting to AVI files is what I was trying to do. The Proxy editing process calls for down converted files for the editing process, which are swapped out when exporting.
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20. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 6, 2010 5:12 AM (in response to woodwizer)in cs4, you cannot choose this ?
new project
custom
desktop
???
you said --- " no matter what preset I use....." which implies you havent absolutely matched a project to your HD footage.
If you can get one HD file onto your timeline you can convert to AVI yourself using premiere - one file at a time if necessary...
I have no idea what sort of computer specs you have.
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21. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 6, 2010 5:54 AM (in response to woodwizer)------------
Converting to AVI files is what I was trying to do. The Proxy editing process calls for down converted files for the editing process, which are swapped out when exporting.
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I would forget about proxy editing for now if you dont mind my opinion...
For one thing the filenames have to be exactly the same ( including the extension )...eg. you cant use m2t with AVI...
plus its sorta complicated...like you would need to edit in the larger file size project settings ( 1440x1080 ) to begin with so you can replace the SD files when its time to export , and you would STILL need to replace the footage into the timeline of the HD footage for the export, which your computer cant handle apparently....
At any rate, I really dont think proxy type editing is what you want to try at this point..
Sounds like you can do SD OK...so I would stick with that.
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22. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 6, 2010 7:16 AM (in response to woodwizer)Ok thanks. After investigating I found how to create the custom presets. I can import your AVI file and work on it fine. I'm happy to work in this format to get the job done. It's only for the web, so HD isn't too important on this.
Can you please tell me which settings you used to convert the m2t to avi? Did you use AME? Or something else? I still want the best quality possible, if possible
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23. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 6, 2010 7:29 AM (in response to woodwizer)please try this first...using desktop / custom settings...NOT a preset...
I'm trying to determine that you ABSOLUTELY cannot import a single clip of your m2t video...
-----------------
make new project using custom and desktop settings.. no presets...
25 fps
1440x1080 16:9
pixel aspect ratio : HD anamorphic 1080 (1.333)
no fields
25 fps timecode
48khz sound
rendering --
video for windows
UT video codec : YUV422 ( ULY2x86)
see how your m2t footage looks in that project...
---------------------
import the small clip you sent me for example..into that new project...let me know what happed
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24. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 6, 2010 7:42 AM (in response to woodwizer)Sorry I should have said in my last reply. I did try that with those settings. It does a little better, but still skips and pauses and is generally uneditable.
I've just been playing about with AME to convert down to SDV in as higher quality as possible. For some reason it wants to change the aspect ratio from widescreen? The resulting file looks squashed. What numbers to I need to enter for width and height?
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28. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 6, 2010 9:06 AM (in response to Ann Bens)-----------------
Sorry I should have said in my last reply. I did try that with those settings. It does a little better, but still skips and pauses and is generally uneditable.
-----------------
OK..thats good.
I was trying to determine if you can just IMPORT a single m2t clip into a timeline with those exact custom desktop settings...
basically I was asking YOU to duplicate what worked for ME ....( me using cs3 so there could be some differences in available settings etc).
WE sorta know at this point you CANT edit the HD footage...so what I wanted to determine is
1) if you could create the custom project with settings that match your footage ( gave you those settings )
2) if you could import one clip such as what you sent us as a sample.
---------
if both the answers are YES...then now you can use AME to export your files ( one at a time if necessary ) to SD....
specifically an SD file that will be good to RE-IMPORT into a NEW PROJECT ( to match the SD footage )...
If you're using the final product for the web that will be progressive ..and since you are downscaling I see no reason why you can't export an SD progressive file for editing in SD and a final export to progressive...especially since your original footage is progressive...
let us know if any of this is making sense and where you are currently with your trials...
good luck !
ps...my playback for HD is often choppy too and I need to render the work area to make it smooth...but in your case I wouldnt bother doing that as you cant edit HD anyway...eventually you will run out of ram etc...
that has no bearing on how your export to SD will be...it doesnt have to play smooth to export it for conversion out of AME
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29. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 6, 2010 9:18 AM (in response to able123)Ann has tons of experience with this type thing, so her advice at this point would be good to follow...
with regard to Ann's reference to DV AVI...that is correct...and this will only confuse you if two of us give you conflicting advice etc ( re: progrssive, interlaced, etc ) ...soooo, I'm gonna bow out of this for now...Ann has way more experience with this than I do...and she will help you make an SD export that you can edit and so on... OK ??
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30. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 6, 2010 3:58 PM (in response to able123)RoboDog, please don't bow out. I think we're getting close to solving this.
I'm not sure I understand what the benefit of importing to a premier timeline and then exporting to SD has? What's the difference from just converting with AME?
That will work. However, there are around 300 files to convert. It would litterally take days or even weeks.
My PC specs
Laptop Specs
Since my last post I have been away from my PC. So I am just starting to play with this again now. Will report back later.
Thanks once again for all the help.
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31. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 6, 2010 4:37 PM (in response to woodwizer)looks like maybe you could do SD stuff on the PC...the laptop looks less powerful...
I'm terrible at decyphering stuff like that ....if you could just say what your ram is and cpu speed and what kinda graphic card you have its easier for me...
but I think I get the gist of those specs...
pc good for SD..laptop good for playing and watching movies but not editing...
is that what others have been saying ?
------
OK, getting beyond that...
in CS3 I have to export from the editor to use AME...its not stand alone program for me...so in order for me to export using AME I have to put stuff into a project and then export from the project ( timeline ).
Your computer isnt powerful enough to batch process all your HD stuff through AME , in my opinion, whether you do it through a project OR just using AME....your computer will probably start gagging and gasping for breath.
Am I right ?
The main issue ( In my opinion ) was to first figure out what exactly you HAVE to begin with ( the m2t file specs )...and then whether your computer could deal with even ONE small m2t clip in a timeline of a correct project...
If it could do THAT, my reasoning was that you could use AME ( to export from the project ...the timeline ) and convert during THAT EXPORT to SD.... Ann gave you good settings to use for that...I think
She has cs4 and has dealt with these problems more than me in the past...really...
Im not sure where we are at the moment re: all this...what you've accomplished etc...but you are right...converting all your files will take FOREVER....like at least all night long if you can do it as a batch job....
So you have to decide whether thats worth it or not maybe by converting one file, making sure it will work as SD footage...( like that AVI file I gave you )...and moving on from there...make decision whether it makes more sense to reshoot 6 hours etc or convert ....
know what I mean ?
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32. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 6, 2010 4:38 PM (in response to Ann Bens)Ann, when I try to replicate these settings. I can select DV PAL, but don't get the option for Field Type and Aspect?
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33. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 6, 2010 4:43 PM (in response to woodwizer)go to your custom and desktop setting area...forget the presets...make what you want there..duplicate exactly what she showed you
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34. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 6, 2010 4:49 PM (in response to able123)Robodog, thanks for clarifying that. I now understand. I didn't realise AME wasn't a separate app in CS3.
I have converted all these 300+ files to various different formats over the past 10 days. It's dead slow. But it does it. The issue is exactly what to convert it to. Today's revelation was learning to customise the sequence settings to match the file. I didn't know you could do that. So I'm 90% there. All I need to do now is work out the best settings to convert down to SD. Then I can work. I'm still playing around trying different settings to work out what's best. As I said earlier, this is a web project. Whilst I wanted it to look super clean and pro HD, getting it done is most important.
The laptop handled SD footage straight from the camera on my last (first) shoot. I'm partially disabled, so it's essential to be able to edit on the laptop. The last project was fine, so I just need to work out how to get the HD to the same kind of SD format that the XHA1 shoots in.
Re-Shooting is not a possibility. This was a live event over 2 days, covering lots of live demonstrations and an evening dinner. Much like a wedding in some ways.
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35. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 6, 2010 4:50 PM (in response to able123)Robo, my last comment is reffering to AME settings and that I can't replicate the settings Ann showed. This is not the sequence settings. Unless I'm missing something again?
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36. Re: MPG2 Issues
Ann Bens Nov 6, 2010 4:59 PM (in response to woodwizer)Well you pc is definitely underpowered.
Are you talking export settings or new sequence.
If it the export settings i would like to see a screendump, because that is not possible (even if you could set it to say progressive it still will turn out lower field because that is what dv avi in 25 fps is.)
If you are talking new sequence this is what it should like like for dv.
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37. Re: MPG2 Issues
woodwizer Nov 6, 2010 5:16 PM (in response to woodwizer)Hi Ann, I am indeed referring to export settings. Earlier you posted this:
Which shows options for Field Type and Aspect. However, on my screen those don't seem to be available options:
Appologies if I am missing something?
I just tried these settings on a file. It works well. I can bring it into the timeline and edit it on my laptop with no majort problems. A little slow, but I can put up with it.
Though one little thing. When exporting from the timeline I'm not sure of which settings to chose here. I tried this:
As you can see, when viewing the 'Output' tab, I get those black bars either side of the picture. Why is this? Should I be concerned? Should I manually edit the aspect ratio to make it fit?
The project settings for that sequence are as follows
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38. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 6, 2010 5:37 PM (in response to woodwizer)----------
Should I manually edit the aspect ratio to make it fit?
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yes, in my opinion.... but just do a small trial ( workbar area of small portion ) for testing..
if it works, use it !
ps.. they dont look squished...so you have to judge if it looks right or not...should stuff be wider looking ?... elongated more in width ?
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39. Re: MPG2 Issues
able123 Nov 6, 2010 5:54 PM (in response to able123)just a heads up...more info ....
---------I have converted all these 300+ files to various different formats over the past 10 days. It's dead slow. But it does it. The issue is exactly what to convert it to. Today's revelation was learning to customise the sequence settings to match the file. I didn't know you could do that. So I'm 90% there. All I need to do now is work out the best settings to convert down to SD. Then I can work. I'm still playing around trying different settings to work out what's best. As I said earlier, this is a web project. Whilst I wanted it to look super clean and pro HD, getting it done is most important.
----------
Today's revelation was learning to customise the sequence settings to match the file.
-------------
projects you set up should match the asset you have....a lot of people use the custom stuff...
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All I need to do now is work out the best settings to convert down to SD.
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once you do THAT, you are now dealing with a totally different asset ! and you must now match THAT new project with your NEW asset !!!
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forget about HD and "quality" stuff...SD is great quality for web and most TV's etc...youre getting way ahead of yourself on that concept...wasting time... its like youre gonna deliver a product and SD is gonna be great for that product...dont worry...
------------
your problem now , it appears, is to create the NEW project to handle the new SD stuff you converted to....and so just match the asset...which ( trust me) is no longer the same animal it was when it was HD.
this is very confusing to everyone, so dont think you're alone ...I just went through some of my own circus stuff editing HD red camera stuff down to SD and believe me, it was not automatic and "easy" to figure out... there are pixel aspect ratios, display aspect ratios and any number of weird things that have to be dealt with. When you are done with this project you will either
a) never shoot another project like this with your current computers
b) tell everyone you are a genius and offer to shoot everything that comes your way
or
c) go to work for Tri-Star tomorrow in their editing dept. for 10x your current salary



















