12 Replies Latest reply on Nov 10, 2010 10:39 AM by Frits Egelie

    Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX

    Frits Egelie

      Dear Readers,

       

      I  have a problem with using Mercalli V2 and PRE 9.0

       

      I placed  some 1440 x 1080i clips on the time line and applied on ALL clips the default of Mercalli v2.

      I then outputed or shared the clips to Phootshp.com.

      See:

      http://www.photoshop.com/accounts/e19f51afd4fa4cf691750432dbe19de7/px-assets/a06000e555314 827ac223fc1f46e3f07

       

      looks reasonable good.

      when afterwards playing the movie: ( see thread web-DVD's), a .mp4 file is placed in the internet cach of your hardisk.

      This happens when you play the whole  photshop.com video.

      You cna find the files by searching on extinsion .mp4.

      There are two, and you can use the biggest file.

      By test -purposes i have replaced that . .mp4 file,now to YUTUBE.

      see:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KY66qppbr4

       

      it looks reasonable good , like the orginal Photoshop.com seeing.

      But attention:

       

      Using the same timeline again with the Mercalli V2 effect  ( in default state) on all those clips and shared /output to youtube, gives a problem.

      see:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_es_6bp7nDg

       

      you get moving edges! Very strange!

      I have a heavily discsssion with Prodad to day, and they suggested that the cause is by PRE9."

      they say :

       

      Your rendering in Elements 9 is OK. Your final result is OK. Only your export to Youtube not. Thats a problem of the exportation in the you tube format.
      ***********
      Also i have tried by another reason to make small .wmv files ( 320 x 240) , all under the influence of Mercalli 2
      they all have very much moving edges.
      I have did this once also wit ha output of 1280 x 720. and then i can't see moving edges.
      My opinion is that Mercalli v2 should give for all measuments good stabilized effects.
      Who has the same experience or will try for me also such tests.
      When i am confirmed that others has the same issue, then we must complain to ADOBE OR Prodad.
      In my opion it could aslo be the Mercaalli V2 who has a bug.
      My argumentation :
      When  outputting, the timeline is rendered in Memory . And i suppose also the endresult is in memory before outputting to Youtube.
      So a splitsecond for sending it to the web, it should be completely finished.
      So the moving edges can't be there !
      But they are there , so is it PRE or Mercalli 's fault ?
      Frits Egelie
        • 1. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
          nealeh Level 5

          Hello again Frits,

           

          Sorry to hear that your moving edge problem is still giving you problems. Could you take the Mercalli adjusted output and run it through GSpot Codec Information Appliance and post a screenshot from GSpot to this discussion. Could you also do the same with the clip before you have applied Mercalli.

           

          Cheers,
          --
          Neale
          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

          • 2. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
            Frits Egelie Level 1

            Neale,

             

            Gspot i use it often but a better option looks to me Mediainfo.

            ********

            The adjusted output is on the Phootshop.com and Youtube.

            But you mean the output with the edges ?

            I wil tr to download it  an do Gspot or Media info with it.

             

            Frits

            • 3. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
              Frits Egelie Level 1

              Nealeh,

               

              first: all the clips on the timeline are AVCHD clips with measurs of 1440 x 1080i. they have a extension of .MTS

              Usin gspot, ( i have used it oftn i nthe past) gives notmuch information.

              So i did a information with Media-info for one clip

              My discussion goes on below this information.

               

              this is information of one of the input clips, before applying Mercalli.

               

              General
              ID                               : 0
              Complete name                    : E:\2010-10-30\00021.MTS
              Format                           :          BDAV
              Format/Info                      :          Blu-ray Video
              File size                        : 103 MiB
              Duration                         : 1mn 10s
              Overall bit rate                 :              12.3 Mbps
              Maximum Overall bit rate         : 18.0 Mbps

              Video
              ID                               : 4113 (0x1011)
              Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
              Format                           : AVC
              Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
              Format profile                   : High@L4.0
              Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
              Format settings, ReFrames        : 2 frames
              Format_Settings_GOP              : M=1, N=26
              Duration                         : 1mn 10s
              Bit rate mode                    : Variable
              Bit rate                         : 11.5 Mbps
              Maximum bit rate                 : 16.0 Mbps
              Width                            : 1 440 pixels
              Height                           : 1 080 pixels
              Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
              Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
              Resolution                       : 8 bits
              Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
              Scan type                        : Interlaced
              Scan order                       : Top Field First
              Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.297
              Stream size                      : 96.3 MiB (94%)

              Audio
              ID                               : 4352 (0x1100)
              Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
              Format                           : AC-3
              Format/Info                      : Audio Coding 3
              Format_Settings_ModeExtension    : CM (complete main)
              Duration                         : 1mn 10s
              Bit rate mode                    : Constant
              Bit rate                         : 256 Kbps
              Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
              Channel positions                : Front: L R
              Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
              Video delay                      : -80ms
              Stream size                      : 2.14 MiB (2%)

              Text
              ID                               : 4608 (0x1200)
              Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
              Format                           : PGS
              Duration                         : 1mn 9s
              Video delay                      : -80ms

               

              ***********************************************************

               

              Here is the information about the on the harddisk placed .mp4 file by Photoshop.com.

              General
              Complete name                    : E:\Spring-wedstrijden.mp4
              Format                           : MPEG-4
              Format profile                   : Adobe Flash
              Codec ID                         : f4v
              File size                        : 221 MiB
              Duration                         : 8mn 55s
              Overall bit rate                 : 3 458 Kbps
              Encoded date                     : UTC 2010-10-29 23:09:45
              Tagged date                      : UTC 2010-10-29 23:09:45
              ©TIM                             : 00:00:00:00

              Video
              ID                               : 1
              Format                           : AVC
              Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
              Format profile                   : Main@L4.0
              Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
              Format settings, ReFrames        : 3 frames
              Codec ID                         : avc1
              Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
              Duration                         : 8mn 55s
              Bit rate mode                    : Variable
              Bit rate                         : 3 322 Kbps
              Width                            : 1 280 pixels
              Height                           : 720 pixels
              Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
              Frame rate mode                  : Constant
              Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
              Standard                         : NTSC
              Resolution                       : 8 bits
              Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
              Scan type                        : Progressive
              Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.144
              Stream size                      : 212 MiB (96%)
              Title                            : MainConcept
              Language                         : English
              Encoded date                     : UTC 2010-10-29 23:09:45
              Tagged date                      : UTC 2010-10-29 23:09:45

              Audio
              ID                               : 2
              Format                           : AAC
              Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
              Format version                   : Version 4
              Format profile                   : LC
              Format settings, SBR             : No
              Codec ID                         : 40
              Duration                         : 8mn 55s
              Bit rate mode                    : Constant
              Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
              Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
              Channel positions                : Front: L R
              Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz
              Stream size                      : 8.17 MiB (4%)
              Language                         : English
              Encoded date                     : UTC 2010-10-29 23:09:45
              Tagged date                      : UTC 2010-10-29 23:09:45

              ************************************

               

              Here is the information from the moving edges downloaded from Youtube.:

              General
              Complete name                    : E:\Springwedstrijden_youtube.mp4
              Format                           : MPEG-4
              Format profile                   : Base Media / Version 2
              Codec ID                         : mp42
              File size                        : 220 MiB
              Duration                         : 8mn 55s
              Overall bit rate                 : 3 451 Kbps
              Encoded date                     : UTC 2010-11-02 13:28:40
              Tagged date                      : UTC 2010-11-02 13:28:40
              gsst                             : 0
              gstd                             : 535416
              gssd                             : B4A7DD227MH1289295949485093
              gshh                             : v7.cache2.c.youtube.com

              Video
              ID                               : 1
              Format                           : AVC
              Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
              Format profile                   : High@L4.0
              Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
              Format settings, ReFrames        : 1 frame
              Codec ID                         : avc1
              Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
              Duration                         : 8mn 55s
              Bit rate mode                    : Variable
              Bit rate                         : 3 318 Kbps
              Maximum bit rate                 : 6 524 Kbps
              Width                            : 1 440 pixels
              Height                           : 1 080 pixels
              Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
              Frame rate mode                  : Variable
              Frame rate                       : 24.000 fps
              Minimum frame rate               : 23.810 fps
              Maximum frame rate               : 24.390 fps
              Resolution                       : 8 bits
              Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
              Scan type                        : Progressive
              Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.089
              Stream size                      : 212 MiB (96%)
              Tagged date                      : UTC 2010-11-02 13:29:06

              Audio
              ID                               : 2
              Format                           : AAC
              Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
              Format version                   : Version 4
              Format profile                   : LC
              Format settings, SBR             : No
              Codec ID                         : 40
              Duration                         : 8mn 55s
              Bit rate mode                    : Variable
              Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
              Maximum bit rate                 : 146 Kbps
              Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
              Channel positions                : Front: L R
              Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz
              Stream size                      : 8.17 MiB (4%)
              Title                            : (C) 2007 Google Inc. v08.13.2007.
              Encoded date                     : UTC 2010-11-02 13:28:55
              Tagged date                      : UTC 2010-11-02 13:29:06

              **********************

               

              I do hop it is enough.

              I could do this also by Gspot.

              But some give very low information.

               

              Frits

              • 4. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
                nealeh Level 5

                Do you know the pixel aspect ratios?

                 

                From your initial comment all the source clips were 1440x1080, but I notice that the two shared full clips (8mn 55s) have different resolutions and ratios:

                Photoshop.com version:       1280x720          4:3

                YouTube version:                   1440x1080      16:9

                 

                Was the YouTube version created from the Photoshop.com version? If so then it seems there would be need to be additional borders.

                 

                As regards Mercalli, when stabilising up/down motions it seems that it must add borders if the whole of the frame is to be displayed. Imagine taking a stills camera and creating a panorama view. When you join the images together there are going to be height differences. You then have to decide whether to crop the image or leave blank areas in (as in this image where there is empty white space top left / bottom right).

                 

                2008 Rome View-2-1.jpg

                 

                From some of the screenshots on the proDAD site there are some options for managing borders - could one of those need to be selected to crop the video to eliminate empty space?

                 

                Cheers,
                --
                Neale
                Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                • 5. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
                  Frits Egelie Level 1

                  Nealeh,

                   

                  from this discussion i see you haven't Mercaali 2

                  I have noticed this phenomnenae also in Meralli 1, years ago, but forgotten.

                  I do seldom or  never make other movies then DVd's.

                  I do not like tricks to get the edges right.

                  It must be right by default.

                  Searching ramdom in all  drection has no sense.

                  I do like someone make also a movie in 1440 x 1080i and do output to

                  Youtube.

                  This is for to know 100 % sure it is not only me! You understand.?

                  I have a long experience with stabilizers.

                  In the past i used  Steady Hand. Exellent prgr. But not for big measures.

                  ***********

                  To day i have installed my PRE 9 in a other 64 bit OS and did a short

                  Mercalli test. to youtube.

                  The results are the  same.

                  It has no sense to search to those things, as i should do wrong things. I do

                  not.

                  I think, the Mercalli works right. But before sharing it don't know what the

                  output measures are.

                  Also the standalone does not know output measures. you can't choose.

                  So between the rendering and converting to the measures 1280 x 720 it goes

                  wrong.

                  the output of 1280 x 720 is the manximium of WEB-DVd in Photoshop.com.

                  Yes output to tYoutube has bigger sizes, i could choose in PRE 9. I choosed

                  the maximum.

                  in future i will do 1920 x 1080; it is possible wiith my camera.

                   

                   

                   

                  Frits

                  • 6. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
                    nealeh Level 5

                    I do suggest you examine what your SmartBorder options are set to. The proDAD product page says that this allows "Lower need for zoom-in than other post-capture       stabilization products". By inference this suggests that some form of Zoom-In is required and it is set via the SmartBorder settings.

                     

                     

                    Cheers,
                    --
                    Neale
                    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                    • 7. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
                      Frits Egelie Level 1

                      Nealeh,

                       

                      when i used Steady Hand , i used a border of 20 %

                      that means 20 % zoom.

                      A bigger % gives more zoom, but also more  unsharpness.

                      I did make yesterday for someone else tests till 70 % zoom.

                      It does not help.

                      But Mercalli works in default mode with 30 %.

                      So it zooms more then Steady Hand.

                      I don't go higher in zoom.

                      when this is nescessery i thrown away the clip.

                       

                      Frits

                      • 8. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
                        nealeh Level 5

                        Ah well, I'm fresh out of ideas. It doesn't seem that there are any Mercalli users on this forum so you might like to post your question to the forums at http://muvipix.com.

                         

                        Cheers,
                        --
                        Neale
                        Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                        • 9. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
                          Frits Egelie Level 1

                          Neahe,

                           

                          i know some folks there.

                          Also one person would do for me the test.

                          So i will wait.

                           

                          Frits

                          • 10. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
                            Greuter13

                            A very important point:

                            The video clip MUST have the same width/height/rate as the Premiere timeline.

                            If you working with a 1440x1080 1.333 Timeline you cannot drop a 1280x720 1.0 video on it.

                            • 11. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
                              Frits Egelie Level 1

                              Greatzer,

                              I do not drop a 1280 x 720 clip on the timeline.

                              My mts clips are 1440 x 1080i

                              My presets are for this measures in PRe 9.0

                              But i outputted or share this to Photoshop.com.

                              Also i used the Mercalli-plugin on these clips.

                              the result is nice.

                              But on some other reasons  i would also place a share or output to Youtbe.

                              I did this on a other time. So i did share the same timelime.

                              So it did again automatic render and other things and automatic upload to

                              Youtube.

                              So all is the same , i changed nothing , only choose output for Youtube.

                              When seeing the clip afterwards on youtube, you see the moving edges.

                              *******

                              I have told this all earlier.

                              I did this test yesteday again on a fresh OS, but results are the same.

                               

                              Frits

                              • 12. Re: Mercalli v2 and PRE 9 and or older PRX
                                Frits Egelie Level 1

                                Readers,

                                 

                                i have also discussed on the Muvipix site and i can tell you the problem is solved.

                                 

                                It is not possible to output to Youtube  and using Mercalli  the same time.

                                Then you will see the moving edges.

                                A workaround is going to output to wmv and change file dimensions and also choose HD anamorphic 1080 ( 1,333)

                                Then you got a nice working file on your HD that you have to upload manuallly to Youtube.

                                that is for 1440 x 1080i. Perhaps other ways for other dimensions.

                                 

                                Frits