This question is addressed in this article:
Of course, the whole reason that we have this forum open is to ask for feedback and consider it, so let us know what you think.
For me, burning a CD is a necessity some of the time, and a normal part of the workflow most of the time. It's much easier having it integrated into the program than to have to take the task, and the files, outside of it. And the implementation of CD burning capabilities in the Windows version of Audition is excellent, better than the 3rd party programs I'd have to seek out, so I hope you put the feature back in.
Agree 100% with Chuck on this. It's very unusual for me not to want to produce a CD as part of a project. The ability to do it within Audition is important to me.
I would like to see the CD burning feature re installed, It is so handy to work on a project from recording to burning, all in one programe,( as we can in the PC Version) rather than use various programs just to complete one job.
Just want to add my voice to those calling for the return of the CD workspace. Much of my restoration work requires CD mastering and Audition's flexible tool is invaluable! It's fantastic to have Audition on the the Mac lets hope we get the same wonderful suite of tools in the final Mac version.
Not only would I like to see the CD workspace included in the Mac version...but also Audition's CD Ripping capabilities. The "Extract Audio from CD" command (with the option to save multiple tracks to a single waveform) is a function of Audition that I use a lot in my production work. I was disappointed to find it missing in the Mac version. I have consistently found that the CD ripping capabilities of the Windows version are superior to EAC, db PowerAmp, and any other CD ripping tool on the market.
I didn't notice that the "Extract Audio from CD" command was missing as well… I also use this command all the time on the Windows version and it would be terrible if it were not included in the Mac version. Please don't take features out! I don't want to go outside of Audition and have to figure out a new way to do the things I'm used to doing within it! Many of us are coming from a background of having switched from Windows to the Mac, and we will notice and regret their absence, and feel bad that we are getting a less full-featured product than is being offered to Windows users.
In general, I think the principle Adobe should follow in designing Audition for the Mac is "leave the X feature in." There's never an advantage to taking a feature out, and always an advantage to leaving it in. In addition, taking out features in the Mac version could lead to bad PR for Adobe among the Mac community, which would be a shame since in fact Adobe is doing a great thing for the Mac community by making a Mac version of Audition available. To put the point positively, Mac users are passionate and if Adobe brings them an equivalent or better product than the Windows version, they are going to be passionate in a positive way which is probably what Adobe wants.
While I won't get into all the details of why all the features of the old version are not included in the new version, I wanted to cover a few of these items to clarify.
Chuck Braman wrote:
In general, I think the principle Adobe should follow in designing Audition for the Mac is "leave the X feature in." There's never an advantage to taking a feature out, and always an advantage to leaving it in.
Chuck, if it was as easy as simply making a decision to "leave a feature in" for the Mac version, we would have kept them all ;-) The truth of the matter is that Audition has been re-written from the ground up to make this Mac version possible. This then makes the real decision, what are the most important features to the majority of Audition users and how can we get these into the application in time for a successful relase of the first version on Mac. From there of course we prioritize those feature along with everything else and here we are.
For CD Burning, we did the research and spoke with a lot (and I do mean a lot) of customers about this one. While people found this feature useful, they also told us that they only use it for occassional burning of CDs and they find themselves handing off material many other ways these days. The other thing we considered was the fact that there are so many other ways to get data or audio from disk to a CD (the most recent operating systems have this built in) and others had trusted tools they used specifically for this reason. I'm not saying that because of this information we will never add this back into the program, but it takes time to do it and we wanted to make sure the core audio editing capabilities of Audition were added first.
For CD Extraction on Mac, what we heard from customers was that they sometimes needed to import audio from a CD directly into Audition but they often used iTunes for the majority of this. Because of that feedback we have not added a specific CD Extraction feature but you can still open files from CD into Audition. Simply go to File > Open and browse to the audio CD in the drive. Choose the track you want to open and bring it right into Audition. You can also simply drag the files off of the CD (from Finder as .aiff files) to a folder on your hard drive and open them into Audition that way.
Please keep the feedback coming, and we would appreciate any additional information on your workflows regarding these features.
Ellen Wixted in the article listed in this thread says the reason that the CD Workspace is not included is "because the majority of newly-created content is distributed digitally and inexpensive or free third-party CD burning tools, such as iTunes, are readily available".
That's like saying that anyone who uses a word-processor will not need a printer because the majority of the content they will create will be put on the internet. Though this may be the sci-fi future for CD burning, it's just not the case today. iTunes would do the job but you can’t change the individual gaps to each track to different lengths.
Workflow is the name of the game. Audition 3 on windows can get it done faster than any combination of other applications.
I agree with WR Editor, " Audition 3 on windows can get it done faster than any combination of other applications."
I have been using Audition since 1998 (Then Cool Edit), and have watched the programme grow into the best Audio Editor on the market, now i have gone over completely to macs, except for Audition which i still have to use on the PC.
The CD extract, and the CD burn are both crucial tools in the Audition arsenal, and are vital in the job that i do.
Please include them if possible on the final version.
The CD Tab was one of the first features I looked for. I am terribly disappointed to see it missing. The many features in Audition on Windows is why I use the windows version in a Virtual machine for editing and the authoring CD's. I would never even imagine ripping my audio in iTunes, then importing it into Audition, then exporting the audio, and finally burning a disk in Toast. That is using 3 programs to do the job that Audition for the PC will do in 1 program. For me there would be no reason to buy the Mac version. I would consider it a waste of money to buy a crippled program. It needs to have the same feature set as the PC version. Without the CD burning and ripping it isn't much better than Soundbooth. Before I ever bought this version of Audition without the CD capability's I would just use Apples Soundbooth. I have anxiously been looking forward to the release of Audition for the Mac. Now I am really disappointed!!!!
I kinda agree with the person who said it makes no sense to take features out. Especially if you're a PC owner who will never own a Mac. You're basically asking every Audition 3.0 owner who owns a PC to be okay with a possibly downgraded (feature wise) PC version of Audition 4.0, because you had to re-write it from the ground up to get it on Mac. Why would PC users who own Audition 3.0.1, even need to ''upgrade''?
The CD Burning feature isn't on the top of my 'must have' list, but just knowing that features like this were taken out, kind of stinks.
I love the new features, and overall it looks like the program is shaping up to being better than version 3.0, but please don't cripple version 4.0 for the PC fanbase, just because you had to re-write the entire thing to get it to the Mac users. I'm glad they're getting their version of Audition, because everyone deserves to experience the greatness that is 'Audition'. But i'm not going to lie and say it doesn't make me nervous about the PC version possibly having less features because it had to be re-written to get a Mac version out there.
I'm pretty sure majority of the people testing/using this current Beta, would happily play around with the Beta version until you guys can get every feature back for the Final product. I'm not sure how long that would take, however. But i'm sure it wouldn't be too much longer of a wait.
And this is coming from someone who would probably prefer burning content to CD's via another program.
With that said, I can't wait to see the final product, especially for the PC. (btw, I think not giving PC owners a Beta version is a mistake.. but we'll see what happens).
Take care, and thank you for working so hard on this new release.
jeez, listen to you people. have you looked around lately at audio software? this is good stuff. I'm sure it has issues as all SW does, but you'd think they killed your dog by the way a few of you are acting. I'd trade features for performance any day. besides the audio eidtors out there today are too bloated and have too many features crammed in if you ask me.
am happy to see a company out there with the balls to burn the house down to get to the next level. new is not bad and if it means losing a few things to move forward (cd burning, really? go buy a $19 tool and get on with it) then so be it.
What would be the point of me buying some more Adobe watered down ware when I already have the PC version. I use a Mac and would have liked to have Audition for Mac so I don't have to run VMware. Audition is no cheap piece of software so why should they remove features and charge the same? I have plenty of utility's to burn discs, but It's a lot easier to just author the cd's in the same program. Wouldn't you think so as well. If they lower the price I still wouldn't buy it. I need the cd authoring. Not everyone does.
hey, to each their own I guess. ive lived in protools and steinberg land for so long (with audition in my toolbag too) that the price of CEP/Audition has been like a plugin to me and like i said, this mac version is doing what i need (do miss pitch bender tho, hope that comes back).
I also go back to Cool Edit and have switched most production to a Mac Pro. I've eagerly anticipated arrival of Audition for Mac, but the elimination of CD Extract and CD Burn would impact my workflow in a negative way.
Adobe, please reconsider this decision to eliminate these features of prior Audition releases.
I moved to Mac about a year ago but have continued to use SoundForge and CD Architect in a virtual Windows machine. I've been waiting for Audition for Mac for months, but I may as well stay with SoundForge if I have to go back to Windows for CD Architect anyway. I undertstand Adobe's thinking. Unfortunately, some of my clients insist on continuing to mail out audio CDs for promotional purposes. I hope the CD Workspace will find its way into the final product. Otherwise, I'm liking what I see.
I think there may be some misunderstanding about many of the features from past versions of Audition that may not be available in this release. I don't believe anyone on the team has made the decision to "eliminate" any features from Audition. This rewrite has allowed us to update the underlying technology at the core in order to take significant advantage of new advances in hardware and operating systems. It was really a much-needed task regardless of whether Audition moved to the Mac or not. In the best-case scenario, the development team could have worked on the app until it reached complete feature parity with Audition 3, but the realities of corporate release schedules required some hard decisions be made as to what could be designed, developed, and tested within the timeframe provided. In the end, the deciding factor often came down to whether a certain function could be addressed temporarily by another means. With CD Burning in particular, the feedback we'd received from customer visits and surveys prioritized this tool far lower than others, on average. As audio CD burning is usually provided directly in most modern operating systems now, and we didn't want to rush a poor substitute for Audition 3's CD Workspace, this was a feature that was deferred for the first release.
Even so, please keep telling us what tools are missing that are crucial to your workflow so that we may continue to add your notes to our internal feature database. It's absolutely crucial for prioritizing this backlog and making sure we get the most important tools done first when we start working on the next release. For those who insist the speed and enhancements introduced with Audition 4 are insufficient to compensate for the tools that are missing, I hope you'll continue to keep an eye on Audition in the future.
I have no doubts that these features will be re-worked and included in future versions. I think a lot of people who currently use AA3, are more worried about when those updates would come to reality. For example, the 3.0.1 update didn't arrive till a year later after the initial release. And while it made the program better overall, it still wasn't a big of enough upgrade/update, and that was nearly 2 years ago.
So I guess we're hoping that after this Final release is out, there won't be much of a wait for these new updates.
But maybe that's just me.
But I fully understand where you guys are coming from, and I love what you guys are doing with this release.
When you say future/next release, you're talking about version 4 still, with updates, right?
I think excluding the CD function is a mistake. Yes most distribution has gone digital, but I own and operate a professional studio and 75% of my "music" clients still like to have that CD master. Standard, I deliver both an audio CD and mp3, wma, etc files. Even most small labels I work with like to have that CD. Plus my studio is in the middle of nowhere Wyoming with limited internet and uploading .wav files is time consuming. Sending CD's is most often easier.
Yes many other applications allow burning, but the integration has been a blessing. I gave up on DAW based recording/mixing due to applications like Pro Tools. It is inconvenient. It requires several other programs to effectively do what Audition has been able to do in an all-in-one package. I enjoy DAW based recording/mixing thanks to Audition (CEP). I was thrilled when the CD burning was first introduced, and I continue to use it daily.
Please don't make Audition less convenient. Please continue the tradition of a world-class and feature-rich product. Flexibility separates the industry leaders from the multitude of mediocre wanna-be's.
Adding my two cents to this: all cd burning and extracting features need to be put back in: to run an audio editing program and not having the ability to burn a cd within the program makes it pretty much useless. I understand the digital arguments and i am on board with some of that, but remember when the first macbook air was introduced and we were going to transfer all of files wirelessly and with no other media involved, well that still hasnt worked out to well, huh?
Couldn't have been said better!!!
In the broadcast television environment, the 'extract audio from CD' feature is used all the time. Production may well deliver audio on a usb stick but often it will arrive, especially music tracks, as CD audio. I did a major music awards gig the other week where 50% of the audio I had to import was on audio CD. The ability to preview a track in the extract window is also extremely useful; producers will often want to hear stuff before deciding which track to select.
Being able to burn CDs within Audition is well used too, for back up discs, for artists to rehearse a new edit, as a hard copy of the shows' music etc.
Whilst I appreciate these functions may be accomplished outside of Audition, that makes no sense to my workflow at all. Please keep these features!
CD Extraction is still available in Audition 4. On Mac, Simply select File > Open and select your Audio CD from the locations. You are presented with a track listing and can preview a track within this dialog by highlighting it and pressing SPACE or, if in column view mode, clicking the preview play button in the file details column.
When extracting from CD using the file open method Audition doesnt cache the content, but uses the CD for reference, if you take the CD out, an error message appears, so it doesnt actually extract the required track, but makes reference to it untill you save to your hard drive.
If you want to extract a few tracks from different cd's to make a compilation, which I very often have to do for the Dancers, The PC way, was to extract all the tracks that was required disc after disc, without the need to save as you go.
The Mac way is to extract, save,extract,save etc, rather than doing it as one job. I know that people say that you should save as you go anyway, but in reality who does, and with the Audition crash recovery, which has always proved sucessful, it is fairly safe to do a job, then save. This may all seem a bit like splitting hairs, but over the course of a year, quite a lot of time is saved by being able to work continuosly, without having to constantly "Save As"
I'm very grateful to see such a great program beta so far, and I highly prefer the other editing, mixing, effects, and mastering abilities the beta has over the ability to burn to CD. But I can't guarantee I won't personally become distressed when that frequent "can live without it until you need it" game sound pros find themselves playing knocks on my door. It's clear from the discussion here that there is an audience for the feature... Could we at least leave it on the table for future consideration?
In the big picture, the concept of Audition is praised as a one-stop audio production powerhouse that singlehandedly completes projects start to finish, from creation to mastering. I have great faith in Adobe, and as long as their plans for Audition continue to focus on this concept, I will continue to have great faith in Audition.
I have a feeling once the final release is out, there will be a lot more cries from Windows users, considering they've been waiting for a new version of Audition, only to find out a lot of features in Audition v3 won't even be there upon release.
I can see Windows users waiting till Adobe releases updates to catch up to version 3, in terms of features and what not.
But i'm sure there will be enough upgrades, where they'll want to upgrade sooner than that. We'll see.
I would really like the CD burner function to remain if it can be done without sacrificing the current performance (which is amazing)!!
Additionally, have you guys considered including a feature for burning DDP files/images (which could be sent to a mastering house)?
This could be very appealing to your Mastering engineer market.
I am really disappointed to not see the "Extract Audio from CD" option here, as well as the option to burn audio to CD. I, too, use CD's for a lot of my production, and it simply would not make sense for Adobe to issue an incomplete edition for the Mac. I do not want to step outside Audition to do my work. I prefer the option of "one-stop shopping" in this case.
Also, some of the keyboard shortcuts (lasso, marquee, etc) are not even close to similar to those in Audition 2.0. Why the big switch?
Exactly right. My experience with cool edit was that it was self sufficient. Adobe Audition should be to. Please don't subject any Adobe Audition users to Itunes!
I would ask that the CD Workspace come back as well. I used Cool Edit, Adobe Audition up to 2, switched to Mac, and since have used Pro-Tools, Logic, Cubase, Live, Reaper, Ardour, WaveEdit, Peak, Garageband, Audacity, etc., I would totally plunk down the money to come back to Audition, but not if I'm in the same situation I am with Logic, etc., and have to use another piece to arrange, edit, fade, and master my final product. Instead, I'll just stick with what I have, even though I know how much there is to be had in Audition, the biggest part for me is the all in one environment, where I can literally go from recording my first tracks to burning my finished Red-Book compliant product. Instead I will have to use two pieces of software and use Peak or WaveEditor, which can both master and make the final disc to give to the band. I feel that if this feature is left out, there will be a lot of people who won't want to spend the money on Audition, or will be looking at Studio One instead, as it does include the CD Mastering stage.
I us Audition 2.0 on a regular basis and love the tools. Too bad it wasn't released in a Mac version. I am almost always extracting audio from CD's for my projects. Not being able to extract from CD's or create CD's would defeat the purpose of the upgrade to Audition 3. If Adobe doesn't make this crucial feature available in the Mac edition, then I will probably not buy it.
Audition 3 is the current version (and has been for some time) available for the PC and includes CD extraction/burning. It is a large improvement over AA 2 espaecially as far as stability is concerned using the latest version 3.01.
This public Mac beta is version 4 and the PC version, although not public yet, is in testing.
As I already said in different thread, a professional audio editing software should allow basic audio CD burning. By this I mean assembling the playlist, setting pauses between tracks, assigning ISRC codes and UPC/EAN code and finally, burning Red Book compatible audio CD in DAO (Disk-At-Once) mode. Nothing fancy, just that basic functionality.
Although one can burn audio CDs directly in Mac OSX (or in iTunes), but those are only made in TAO mode, which is unsuitable for CD pressing plant. We need burning in DAO mode - both Bias Peak, Wavelab 7 (including Elements 7) and DSP Quattro provide this functionality, so unfortunately I cannot accept that Audition somehow will not.
Or should we use two audio editors, one for editing and everything else and another one just for CD burning in DAO mode?
I agree. I like to think of Audition as much as a two track editor as just another DAW. Most (not all) of the "mastering" and noise reduction tools compete with dedicated products. So for this reason alone, why would a mastering program not be able to produce red-book compliant discs?
Personally I do a lot of my work in Live and ProTools...mostly PT. I fought it for years and finally made the jump and have been looking forward to using AA for Mac exclusively for cleaning up and producing cd's for the band.
In the past when I was forced to use Windows I felt AA3 should have more DAW capabilities including Midi, but man was I wrong! After spending a lot of time with the program and poking around this forum, I absolutely agree that this is a competent mastering program and hope it keeps progressing in that direction!
I agree. And since the pc version has it, Pc users who use such, have no reason to upgrade until current version includes it. I'm wondering now, are people going to have to pay a second time for an update that returns the features of previous versions?
Hi all at Adobe,
so far, I am generally very happy with the MAC version. Thank you for delivering the product to us. I am one of those professionals who very frequently used the CD burn features on the PC version, and quite frankly I really miss it in the MAC version. If you are writing this into Audition for MAC, I would certainly appreciate it as it save valuable time. Some of my work is done on the fly, so efficiency is vital.
Will we, the users/testers be automatically informed of updates?
Martin Cullinan, All Event Productions, Dublin, Ireland.
I totally agree with the points you have made, being from a similar background. Adobe, please take note!!
We are considering moving from Samplitude on the PC to something on the MAC. Audition might be an alternative but only if it has CD burning possibilities including inserting ISRC codes needed for a CD premaster. We could of course move the final mix to external software - even to Samplitude on a PC but not really... Workflow is the key here as a few others already have pointed out.