13 Replies Latest reply on Nov 11, 2010 9:23 AM by JGrabowMST

    "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)

    bryanfoster

      First of all, THANK YOU for getting this for mac!!!!

       

      The two problems I am currently having are probably user error, but I thought I'd put them on here for much smarter people to figure out.

       

      Quick background : recording from audio board via madi.

       

      The first problem I get while trying to record is an error in the bottom right corner that constantly displays "Detected Dropped Samples"

      The other problem I get after recording  is multiple "XMP Metadata could not be saved to the file" errors on multiple tracks.

       

      I also have an issue with the tracks being different lengths after recording for the same amount of time but only from tracks 17 to 64...

        • 1. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
          Scott Carver

          Firstly - you can clear the dropped samples warning by clicking on it. It'll light up any time you drop samples, and stay lit from there, until you clear it. Secondly - if you bump your hardware buffer size (in Preferences->Audio Hardware), do you still get dropped samples, or does it clear the problem up? Are you seeing the dropped samples warning show right when you start recording / playing, or some time after you've been doing it for a while? Finally, what hardware are you using for recording?

          • 2. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
            Charles VW Adobe Employee

            Hi Bryan,  a few questions...

             

            Which particular MADI card are you using (including driver version)?

            Does changing your buffer size make a difference in when we "detect dropped samples"?

             

            Regarding the XMP metadata, is there any other information you can give about this?   For example, are you recording to an external drive, or anything special?

            • 3. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
              bryanfoster Level 1

              Scott & Charles:

               

              Yeah, I figured out that you could clear the Dropped Sample message by clicking on it, but it reappears faster than I can keep up. The error starts at the very beginning of the recording and is constant. I have the buffer at 1024 and still have the same problem, although the frequency drops to about once every 2 seconds or so.

               

              Full rundown of the equipment: 

              Studer Vista 5 audio console with MADI out -->

              Mac : 2x2.8G Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor, 6gb 800Mhz DDR2 FB-DIMM Memory, running 10.5.8 with a n RME HDSPe MADI card vers. 2.71

               

              Recording to internal drive.

               

              XMP Metadata issue: After I stop the recording, it comes up with the error "XMP Metadata could not be saved to the file." Every time I try recording, it happens on different channels at a different frequency (sometimes 8 channels, other time 17, other time 5....very inconsistent).

               

              All of your help is very appreciated!

              • 4. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
                bryanfoster Level 1

                A little more info....dropped samples frequency goes down when the number of channels recording goes down.....

                 

                The first 16 channels have no problem in tests to 30 sec. When recording64 it has about a million problems in the first second.

                 

                Any ideas?

                • 5. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
                  Charles VW Adobe Employee

                  bryanfoster wrote:

                   

                  I have the buffer at 1024 and still have the same problem, although the frequency drops to about once every 2 seconds or so.

                   

                   

                  What is the maximum buffer size for this card?  Does changing it make a difference?  How many tracks are you recording at once (I'm assuming a lot since you're using a MADI card).

                   

                  XMP Metadata issue: After I stop the recording, it comes up with the error "XMP Metadata could not be saved to the file." Every time I try recording, it happens on different channels at a different frequency (sometimes 8 channels, other time 17, other time 5....very inconsistent).

                   

                  What this sounds like to me is that for some reason there's a failure with injecting metadata into the files you just recorded.  What typically happens when recording files via the Multitrack view, is we'll automatically embed some BWF Bext metadata after the recording is done.  We typically populate the Date and Time it was recorded, as well as the time offset of the clip that is created during recording.  You can turn this off by changing a preference:

                   

                  Adobe Audition > Preferences > Markers & Metadata...

                   

                  and uncheck the Include markers and metadata in recordings and multitrack mixdowns, this should solve the injecting problem (by just not trying to inject metadata).

                   

                  Screen shot 2010-11-10 at 2.18.17 PM.png

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
                    bryanfoster Level 1

                    No More Metadata Issues!!!!! Thank you!

                     

                    Now for the dropped samples. Here is an excerpt from the RME HDSPe MADI manual:

                     

                     

                    Mac OS X:

                     

                    The buffer size is defined within the application. Only some do not offer any setting.

                    For example iTunes is fixed to 512 samples.

                     

                     

                     

                    I have looked for a manual way to change the buffer size on the card, but can't.

                     

                    Is that what you're looking for?

                     

                    Trying to record 64 channels....

                    • 7. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
                      JGrabowMST

                      Adobe Audition Preferences > Audio Hardware > IO Buffer size

                       

                      Adjust this accordingly to prevent dropped samples. Works fine here on 10.6.4, and does prevent dropped samples.

                      • 8. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
                        bryanfoster Level 1

                        I adjusted the buffer size to 1024 and that has the fewest problems by far. For the first 30 seconds of the first recording after the program is opened, it doesn't drop a sample. After that, it start to drop more frequently. When trying to record to a new file, the dropped samples start immediately (not after 30 secs like the first time the program is open).

                         

                        BTW, is it a limitation of the software at the current time that in only records the first few seconds of any tracks above 16 or is there a button I'm not seeing?

                        • 9. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
                          JGrabowMST Level 1

                          What computer are you using that you're getting so many dropped samples? This could be a result of many many things, slow computer, trying to record too much onto a laptops internal drive, etc. I would also say low RAM could easily be a culprit.

                           

                          I wouldn't consider this a problem with Audition though, because it could happen in any software with the wrong settings.

                           

                          It could also be dependent on your audio interface, its drivers, or the device settings you have.

                          • 10. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
                            _colin_ Adobe Employee

                            Bryan, I just wanted to chime in that disk I/O could be an issue. Not to say that it's not something the beta is doing to create that condition, but I think you said you're using the internal drive and there will be a point at which large number of tracks recording at once could require more disk I/O throughput.

                             

                            Do you have the ability to try another disk setup? preferably something with high-speed bus and striped drives? One disk head racing around to write out simultaneous writes sounds like a possible culprit here, but not necessarily the only one.

                             

                            Another thing that comes to mind, can you record/write 64 tracks on another application using the exact same write locations (same drive, etc)? If so, that would be interesting to know.

                             

                            Lastly, can you record 2, 4 or 8 tracks w/o drops? I assume as you go down in tracks it will improve.

                             

                            Regards,

                             

                            Colin S.

                            • 11. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
                              bryanfoster Level 1

                              the computer specs are above....I think (but I am not a computer genius) that the computer should be able to handle it.

                               

                              I agree that the problem is probably not with Audition. I'm just trying to figure out how everything should be playing together. Sorry if I sound so illiterate on all of this, but the system was set up by someone else and I'm playing catch-up on understanding the whole thing.

                               

                              Also above are the pieces of hardware and software involved. Again, any help is greatly appreciated.

                              • 12. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
                                bryanfoster Level 1

                                Let me get back to you on the striped drives.

                                 

                                We have recorded up to 64 tracks on Digital Performer 6 with better results (not perfect all the time, but better).

                                I can record up to 16 tracks with it only dropping 1 sample at the very beginning and then it's fine for at least 28 minutes. I just started recording 4 tracks and there was no drop at the beginning. It seems that the dropped sample frequency declines when the number of recording tracks declines.

                                • 13. Re: "Dropped Samples" and "XMP Metadata" Issues (among others)
                                  JGrabowMST Level 1

                                  That computer should more than be able to do the recording without a problem. I have no experience with RME (yet) but will say that it could be a few things:

                                   

                                  1) Your sample right might be set as one thing in the RME control panel (if there is one) and the sample rate might be listed as something else in Audition. This needs to be unified, in that Audition isn't requesting a higher sample rate (or a lower one) or you will see issues where you record for say 2 hours, and the waveform is only say one hour, and 45 minutes.

                                   

                                  2) The drivers for the RME interface might not be playing nicely with Audition. I've seen this more on Windows based systems, but it's not out of the question for Mac. I've found Audition to play much better with all drivers than most other software, so it is a little strange, but I wouldn't want to rule it out.

                                   

                                  I'm only on a MacBook Pro, with an M-Audio ProFire 2626, but I find this application to be beating Pro Tools 9 in most respects, so I'm happy with it completely, and I haven't had much trouble with it, but I think that as with all software, the first beta, and even the alpha releases are buggy as hell because they're still working out the kinks with how different hardware interacts. On Mac it's simpler, becuase there's a somewhat "unified" structure that they try to follow, in that 2010 Mac Pros don't have a million different chipset configurations, but between the different models (say, MacBook Pro 1,1 [what i have] and MacBook Pro 5,1 [what someone on the dev team might have]) there are differences that may be unaccounted for. It's not the dev teams fault, it's just that hardware changes over time, and it can't always be overcome.