30 Replies Latest reply on Nov 11, 2010 1:13 PM by Matt_Stegner

    Feedback Thread

    digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

      Congratulations on getting the first beta out the door

       

      It looks good so far (and I'm assuming this is an early beta so far as missing features)

      A few feedback notes

       

      very stable on octo core systems in 64 bit kernal mode

      impressive that it has no problems recognizing 64-bit as well as 32 bit AU plugins

      Vst Funtionality seems troubled - will include crash logs from the reporter tool

      Internal functions seem solid with no noticable flaws for a few hours testing

       

       

      Several key functions are missing

      Pitch manipulation along time line/ auto correction

      Visual graphic phase tools (keystone to A3 - they need to be in 4)

      Spectral pan functions (again an A3 keystone - they need to be in 4)

      core competencies need to be maintained - a post and sound design tool

      Vocoder Functions

      Scientific Filters

       

      Now the bad:

      ID3 import support needs to be improved from 2.2 (if cd support is being dropped in favor of itunes it needs to be sync'd to itunes tag support level)

      Delay compensation seems touchy on select AU's (crash report will include additional details on that)

       

      More will be added after hours and it can be pressed properly

        • 1. Re: Feedback Thread
          Charles VW Adobe Employee

          Thanks for the feedback.

           

          For the things like the Graphic Phase tools and the Spectral Pan functions, please share with the other beta users on how that fits into your workflow.

           

          For the metadata import issue you reported, are you able to post a file somewhere for us to test with?

          • 2. Re: Feedback Thread
            digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

            This was an issue previously in 3 that Durin and I worked through.

            In a workflow, particularly for 5.1 or more channels, The ability to arbitrarily set paths and or manually set phase alignments/misalignments is very useful for foley and environmental re-creation and or matching (convolution is fine for ambiences, but not soundstage to field to booth etc matching or transitioning. it can be fished together with some patience - but audition has always been about workflow considerations and that said. As a sound design and construction tool for multi-track/multi-sourced materials. It retains the edge and offers the best choice of tools.

             

            The Spectral Pan feature was an inspired feature in 3 and it found a lot of uses. For field manipulation as well as sound design purposes (and in the absence of the binaural panner as well in the beta - it reduces the field editing tools to practically zero - aside from the channel conversions)

             

            Together, the phase tools and the spectral panning were very useful in multi-channel assembly and even for stereo sound design and without them, 4 is fairly hobbled in that respect, which makes no sense in that so much work was done on the 5.1 tracks/busses and workflows but that the companion tools were left off - being vst components, it would seem an easy transition platform to platform, but then again. I'm not a programmer.

             

            Additionally, the Pitch tool was primarily for either pitch correction of differing source or transitions or more to the point pitch matching (used the detector and usually manually did it with radius. But the tool was also used for sound design, pitch downs, slow downsup etc for environment or visual effect (usually dream sequence or slow motion rail cam or steady cam pan shots or hi frequency frame transitions (speed cam effect, you've surely seen them

             

            for the metadata, pull any m4a/mp3 converted file from an itunes library from itunes 9.2.1  or 10.0

            Apparently their tagging system has been updated past 2.2 in the current versions but I can provide a file for you by email if you'd like

            • 3. Re: Feedback Thread
              Matt_Stegner Adobe Employee

              "Vst Funtionality seems troubled"

               

              How so?  On scan? How many effects do you have, and how many crash?

               

              -MattS

              • 4. Re: Feedback Thread
                digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                system detects 341 total both AU and vst

                 

                vst scans countdown from in excess of 30 minutes on scan and freeze

                 

                Au scans take less than 15 seconds - without crash or error

                • 5. Re: Feedback Thread
                  Matt_Stegner Adobe Employee

                  "30 minutes on scan and freeze"

                   

                  What effects are causeing this?  We need specific information.

                  -MattS

                  • 6. Re: Feedback Thread
                    digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                    On rescan iZotope RX2 denoiser vst component halts scan and freezes

                    (Durin will want to know about that one as this is the second RX error reported)

                     

                    AU components of same - scan immediately after disabling vst scans and function as normal

                     

                     

                    However, several 3rd party plugins are displaying bleedthrough on process using the non modal effects menu (meaning they are inserting a blast of sound at the beginning of the processed file when applied and shifting it by whatever length of the inserted buffer carryover contained)

                     

                    Does not appear to be happening in the rack, but it does put a severe damper on the non modal demo that jason did in the summer.

                    • 7. Re: Feedback Thread
                      digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                      Continuing Feedback notes:

                       

                      UI in mixer view displays inconsistencies (most apparent are led meters blank outs and the master fader is blue (which is kind of funny but probably not meant to be)

                       

                      Confirmed buffer bleed throughs on non modal effects selects (confirmed on mutliple Mac Pro systems and consistent with both AU and vst plugins)

                      bleed through - buffer playback insertions on beginning of file or region when processed)

                       

                      Amplitude Envelope process (UI is unusable - no rescale and difficult point entry select from UI) the UI seems sticky (as does automation drawing in the mutlitrack view.

                       

                      In the absence of the doppler/binaural etc field tools, would it be possible to implement a process effect similar to amplitude envelope that would implement similar function but be applicable to panning and field effects?

                       

                      Intermittent Contention freeze, noise removal process, locks application if focus is removed (example: focus to another window or finder/application)

                      freeze is unrecoverable and process shutdown is required to cease app from console terminal - note: can be halted and return the system to responsiveness but does indicate a contention lock of some sort - possible volume access interrogation?

                       

                      ID3 does not conform to itunes 9.2.1 or better standard for either m4a/mp3/alac/aiff imports and gives source import warning of unparsed content reading tags

                      Feature suggestion note: would be convenient if a save to itunes dialogue were included with m4a or alac export options (no idea if this is easily implemented)

                       

                      Statistics scan functions as described, but would be convenient if it had a spot to cursor option as well (possibly does but is not apparent from UI)

                       

                      Broadcast standard metadata options are missing and or not clearly defined in the UI

                      • 8. Re: Feedback Thread
                        GodzFire

                        Few things I noticed from working with it more:

                         

                        1- With PC Audition in Waveform mode, you could 'solo' the left or right channel while playing by clicking either far left for left channel or far right for right channel. OS Audition requires you to click the 'Toggle Channel Enable State' button. Very counterproductive.

                         

                        2- Stereo balance control in multitrack: In the PC one, it uses the '100%' scale on adjusting where a track exists in a session; -100 being complete left, 100 being complete right. With OSX, you instead get L100 or R100, which to me seems counterintuitive.

                         

                        Additionally, with the OSX version, you have to click right on the 0 in order to manually type. With the PC one, it was more forgiving and if you were close to it but not exactly spot on, it would open up. Get what I mean? Otherwise I can get a visual image.

                         

                        3- For whatever reason, sometimes in mutlitrack mode, when I press the - key while trying to put in stereo balance numbers, it switches me back to that particular track's Waveform view. Incredibly frusterating.

                         

                        4- It would be nice if you could set in preferences that when you go from Waveform to Multitrack after opening the program for the first time each time, it doesn't ask you to create a new session EVERYTIME. It's quickly getting annoying, especially so when the PC version doesn't do that.

                         

                        5- When opening multiple pieces of music, they all are gathered under a single tab.

                        1.png

                        Is it possible instead to have each song be it's own tab along the line, like the red arrow shows?

                        • 9. Re: Feedback Thread
                          Scott Carver Level 1

                          1- With PC Audition in Waveform mode, you could 'solo' the left or  right channel while playing by clicking either far left for left channel  or far right for right channel. OS Audition requires you to click the  'Toggle Channel Enable State' button. Very counterproductive.

                           

                          There's a preferences for this - you can find it in Preferences->General->Allow context-sensitive channel editing.

                           

                          3- For whatever reason, sometimes in mutlitrack mode, when I press the -  key while trying to put in stereo balance numbers, it switches me back  to that particular track's Waveform view. Incredibly frusterating.

                           

                          Hmm, that's unusual. I couldn't get this to happen - even if I added a keyboard shortcut to switch to edit view with the - key, I could still safely use the - in hot text controls without switching. To confirm - you're seeing this in the balance controls, on the track header for a track? As soon as you type the - key, or when you hit enter? Got any other keyboard shortcuts that could be triggering it?

                           

                          4- It would be nice if you could set in preferences that when you go  from Waveform to Multitrack after opening the program for the first time  each time, it doesn't ask you to create a new session EVERYTIME. It's  quickly getting annoying, especially so when the PC version doesn't do  that.

                           

                          Switching to Multitrack, with the button at the top left, should never ask you to create a new session unless you don't currently have one open. This wasn't an issue in previous versions because we essentially always had one (and only one) multitrack session open - it was created automatically, so you wouldn't need to create it yourself. The model is a little different now - we don't create one automatically, you can have more than one (or none) open, and you choose a location and settings for a session when it's created (to determine where recordings and converted files will go, what sample rate to use, etc). Hence the dialog when you switch to multitrack view with no sessions open. Again, if you've already have sessions open, clicking on the button should switch to the last session you were editing - if it shows a new dialog in THIS case, then it's definitely a bug.

                           

                          5- When opening multiple pieces of music, they all are gathered under a single tab.

                           

                          Unfortunately, pretty much every dialog, menu option, and panel in the application is set up to affect the (one) session or asset you're currently editing. Multiple tabs means potentially having multiple editors for different documents up at once - this is a pretty fundamentally different model than one where everything is keyed to the current document.

                          If you're finding switching between documents annoying, try Cmd+` (btw, that's the key w/ tilde) - you can cycle between open files, and also just click on the file you want in the window that appears.

                          • 10. Re: Feedback Thread
                            digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                            I think I included this before but in case not

                             

                            Mac Pro 2008 3.1 Model (2) Mac Pro 2010 5.1 (1)

                            32 GB memory Per machine

                            4 1TB Hard Drive Arrays per machine - Non Raid

                            External Drives Offline to null possible contention/throughput idiosyncracies with input output

                            Black Magic Video Ingest systems PCI-E Based Internal - Online and active to test against PCI-E Bus Contention

                            Dual Nvidia GT 120's on each system with Dual LED CINEMA DISPLAYS (24" Models) for each

                            Bluetooth/EDR Equipped/Airport Equipped and active

                            All usb and Firewire external devices removed for baseline testing purposes

                            16 GB Ramdisks active for File/project Storage (immediate access and memory to memory throughput to null latency idiosyncracies for testing)

                             

                            Testing A4 currently with onboard audio susbsystem for baseline (and to null 3rd party model indiosyncracies)

                            • 11. Re: Feedback Thread
                              Scott Carver Level 1

                              Quick question(s) for Digital Alchemy -

                               

                              Statistics scan functions as described, but would be convenient if it  had a spot to cursor option as well (possibly does but is not apparent  from UI)

                              For any of the items in Amp Stats that cooresponds to a location in the file (i.e. max sample value), there's a small CTI-looking icon next to it - click on that to relocate your CTI there. For items that have multiple locations (i.e. clipped samples), you can click multiple times to cycle through all points. You can use this on concert with Add Marker (Shift+* by default) to quickly mark areas found by amp stats. Is that what you're looking for?

                               

                              Broadcast standard metadata options are missing and or not clearly defined in the UI

                              In our metadata panel, we've got tabs for XMP, BWF, ID3, and RIFF metadata. Anything entered in the BWF, ID3, or RIFF fields will automatically be mirrored appropriately to cooresponding fields in XMP and the other tabs, and written into the metadata of the file on save. Are there other types of metadata that aren't covered here, that are required for you?

                               

                              Scott C.

                              • 12. Re: Feedback Thread
                                digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                                CTI does respond as it should but statistics do not update to cursor point. I was wondering if there was a setting to be changed to make it track with CTI to cursor automatically (it does not appear to at present)

                                 

                                 

                                It is not obvious if corresponding data is compatible with CART/DLTS (Cable DLT) formats for Radio and Television Code ingests and is not present/showing in Black Magic readouts for ID/Sync for standard station delivery.

                                 

                                Additional note: is ID3 Locked at 2.2 rev? if Tagging is unrecognized beyond that point, it will null Itunes/roxio etc as import possibility with tag retention.

                                • 13. Re: Feedback Thread
                                  Scott Carver Level 1

                                  CTI does respond as it should but statistics do not update to cursor  point. I was wondering if there was a setting to be changed to make it  track with CTI to cursor automatically (it does not appear to at  present)

                                   

                                  Nearly all of the stats in Amp Stats are things that are meant to be measured over a period of time, and are not instantateous - so, moving your CTI won't update the stats, you'll need to make a selection and hit Scan.

                                   

                                  Additional note: is ID3 Locked at 2.2 rev? if Tagging is unrecognized  beyond that point, it will null Itunes/roxio etc as import possibility  with tag retention.

                                   

                                  We support ID3v1 and all versions above ID3v2.2 (v2.3, v2.4). It's possible that MP3's tagged in older applications, or tagged with apps that never updated to the new standards will be producing files with 2.2 tags - but other than that, we should be able to ingest anything pretty much anything. If you have mp3's with 2.2 tags, I BELIEVE all you need to do to update them is to import them in iTunes and make a change to any field - I'll double check that, though.

                                  • 14. Re: Feedback Thread
                                    digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                                    Incorrect Scott, these are files ingested to itunes 10.1 from cd and tagged from its gracenote search.

                                     

                                    Test it yourself, take any album, transpose it to disc (toast is best option and then import through itunes 9.2.1 or better as mp3 or other and then try to open them into A4, you will be met with "warning, files contain unsupported ID3 2.2 tag. No data will be read from this tag, and it will be removed from file when saved"

                                     

                                    I can provide you with screenshots for this as I provided Durin with screenshots of the plug-in bleed through issue as well.

                                    • 15. Re: Feedback Thread
                                      _durin_ Adobe Employee

                                      > UI in mixer view displays inconsistencies (most apparent are led meters  blank outs and the master fader is blue (which is kind of funny but  probably not meant to be)

                                       

                                      Can you elaborate on the meter "blank outs" ?  Not sure what you mean.  The color scheme inside the mixer is still under design, so that garish Master fader color should change before release.  I hope..

                                       

                                      > buffer bleed throughs...

                                       

                                      We have reproduced this and it appears to only affect Audio Unit effects that were open as a single effect and when previewed while the UI was open.  It has been bugged.

                                       

                                      > Amplitude Envelope process (UI is unusable ...)

                                       

                                      Could you explain this a bit more?  Envelope height is scaled with track height and new edit points are created when clicking on an empty region of the envelope.

                                       

                                      I'm not clear what you mean by "Intermittent Contention freeze" - can you provide step-by-step instructions for how to reproduce this issue?

                                       

                                      As for ID3, most tags are supported, though Album Art will invoke the message that a tag was unsupported.

                                       

                                      For the other issues you mentioned, there are other topics already addressing the issue or I'll enter a feature in the database.

                                      • 16. Re: Feedback Thread
                                        Scott Carver Level 1

                                        Sorry, you're correct - iTunes, by default, only tags tracks pulled from a cd with v2.2 - it supports tags >2.2, but for some reason doesn't write them by default. You can convert them to 2.3+ by selecting them in iTunes and choosing Convert ID3 Tags.... We should support all the common ID3 fields once they're converted to >2.2. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to choose to always use v2.3/2.4 in iTunes.

                                         

                                        Scott C

                                        • 17. Re: Feedback Thread
                                          Matt_Stegner Adobe Employee

                                          "Confirmed buffer bleed throughs on non modal effects selects  (confirmed on mutliple Mac Pro systems and consistent with both AU and  vst plugins)

                                          bleed through - buffer playback insertions on beginning of file or region when processed)"

                                           

                                          I created a bug for this this morning.  Good catch.

                                          -MattS

                                          • 19. Re: Feedback Thread
                                            GodzFire Level 1

                                            Scott you forgot to comment on this issue:

                                            2- Stereo balance control in multitrack: In the PC one, it uses the '100%' scale on adjusting where a track exists in a session; -100 being complete left, 100 being complete right. With OSX, you instead get L100 or R100, which to me seems counterintuitive.

                                             

                                            Additionally, with the OSX version, you have to click right on the 0 in order to manually type. With the PC one, it was more forgiving and if you were close to it but not exactly spot on, it would open up. Get what I mean? Otherwise I can get a visual image.

                                            • 20. Re: Feedback Thread
                                              Scott Carver Level 1

                                              Didn't comment because I was investigating it.

                                               

                                              I see what you mean about clicking on the 0 - that's really annoying. I checked, and the control looks like it's actually larger, but only the part w/ text  responds to mouse clicks. I've written a bug to at least see if we can make this less annoying.

                                               

                                              As for the balance text - showing the L and R rather than + or - seems less ambiguous when glancing at a balance control. What's your intuition when you see something like L37 on a balance or pan control?

                                               

                                              - Scott

                                              • 21. Re: Feedback Thread
                                                GodzFire Level 1

                                                4- It would be nice if you could set in preferences that when you go  from Waveform to Multitrack after opening the program for the first time  each time, it doesn't ask you to create a new session EVERYTIME. It's  quickly getting annoying, especially so when the PC version doesn't do  that.

                                                 

                                                Switching to Multitrack, with the button at the top left, should never ask you to create a new session unless you don't currently have one open. This wasn't an issue in previous versions because we essentially always had one (and only one) multitrack session open - it was created automatically, so you wouldn't need to create it yourself. The model is a little different now - we don't create one automatically, you can have more than one (or none) open, and you choose a location and settings for a session when it's created (to determine where recordings and converted files will go, what sample rate to use, etc). Hence the dialog when you switch to multitrack view with no sessions open. Again, if you've already have sessions open, clicking on the button should switch to the last session you were editing - if it shows a new dialog in THIS case, then it's definitely a bug.

                                                 


                                                Here's how I produce the issue:

                                                 

                                                1- Open up Audition

                                                2- Open up an audio file in Waveform view (example 1.wav)

                                                3- Click the 'View Multitrack Editor' button

                                                4- This window pops up:

                                                1.png

                                                5- It then asks if I want to overwrite:


                                                2.png

                                                • 22. Re: Feedback Thread
                                                  Scott Carver Level 1

                                                  An addition - you can still enter + and - values into the balance control.

                                                  -37 becomes L37, 37 becomes R37.

                                                   

                                                  Scott C

                                                  • 23. Re: Feedback Thread
                                                    Scott Carver Level 1

                                                    I'm a bit unclear about the issue -

                                                     

                                                    if you click Yes in that dialog, you should create a new Multitrack Session. At that point, if you click the Multitrack button, it should go to that (or whatever other MT session you've got open). If you click No, it should return you to the New Multitrack dialog. What is your expectation when you click the Multitrack button when you have no MT sessions open?

                                                     

                                                    Scott C

                                                    • 24. Re: Feedback Thread
                                                      digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                                                      Can you elaborate on the meter "blank outs" ?

                                                       

                                                      It appears to intermittently stop and or flash during playback depending on where focus is, I was able to make it flash repeatedly by selecting bus panel, (it would momentarily stop tracking to playback, like a pause, then it would resume but delayed for the duration of playback until stopped)

                                                       

                                                      Envelope height is scaled with track height and new edit points are created when clicking on an empty region of the envelope.

                                                       

                                                      I understand but the UI appears to be sticky and unresponsive when trying to insert keypoints or to move them at all (multitrack automation appears to share the same sluggishness)

                                                       

                                                      Intermittent Contention freeze

                                                       

                                                      Repro> effects menu>Noise reduction Process>scan, begin playback with a keypoint selected>select finder or safari window>select back to A4>unresponsive and only a terminal quit shuts it down. I've been able to do it 4 out of 5 times in a row today - but I've discovered something about it, if the disk the source file is opened from sleeps during editing, it can be reproduced that way as well so it may not be directly tied to focus as power management and volume availability contentions.

                                                      • 25. Re: Feedback Thread
                                                        digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                                                        "Confirmed buffer bleed throughs on non modal effects selects  (confirmed on mutliple Mac Pro systems and consistent with both AU and  vst plugins)

                                                        bleed through - buffer playback insertions on beginning of file or region when processed)"

                                                         

                                                        I created a bug for this this morning.  Good catch.

                                                        -MattS

                                                         

                                                        Thanks

                                                        We aims to please

                                                        • 26. Re: Feedback Thread
                                                          Scott Carver Level 1

                                                          Still got Adobe Graphics Manager turned on?

                                                          This changes the way things are drawn, which could cause refresh issues like the meter problem you described (though, it's not neccesarily a refresh problem, either).

                                                           

                                                          Scott C

                                                          • 27. Re: Feedback Thread
                                                            digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                                                            Had to rip A4 and the plist out entirely and reopen from dmg. I've Never experienced a full system lockup like that - ever

                                                             

                                                            That thing is (insert appropriate expletive here) EVIL. In 2 1/2 years I've only had to force shut down by manual power down 2 times.

                                                            That thing was the second one.

                                                             

                                                            it's off, will stay off and will never be touched again until someone explains what it was supposed to do.

                                                            Still waiting on clarification on what it is and why it did that

                                                            • 28. Re: Feedback Thread
                                                              Reuben Schulz

                                                              I can't view my panning envelope to make panning adjustments yet I have it selected in view....what am i doing wrong?

                                                              • 29. Re: Feedback Thread
                                                                Matt_Stegner Adobe Employee

                                                                 

                                                                digital.alchemy.studios,

                                                                Can you give some system info?

                                                                -MattS

                                                                • 30. Re: Feedback Thread
                                                                  digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                                                                  Matt, you have full system specs at audbugs@adobe.com