11 Replies Latest reply on Nov 10, 2010 12:55 PM by P.W. Fenton

    Empty time added to mixdown entire session

    P.W. Fenton

      Multi-track Sessions don't appear to end as they should at the end of the last piece of audio.  Sessions appear to have an arbitrary length.  When you mix down you get a file of this "session" length... no matter how much you shorten the content.  Something is VERY wrong.

        • 1. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
          Scott Carver Level 1

          We always leave a little padding at the end of a session to make sure you've got some breathing room for reverb tails, delays, etc. If you're getting tons of extra space at the end of your session that you don't want, you can always tighten up space at the end of your session by clicking the Zoom Out Full button (upper-right in the editor, the magnifying glass). The duration of your mixdown should always match the duration of your session, as it's listed in the files panel. If you want a very precise mixdown, you can always use the selection tool to select the exact range you want mixed down, and choose Multitrack->Mixdown To New File->Time Selection.

           

          Scott C

          • 2. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
            P.W. Fenton Level 1

            When you say "we always" I guess your "always" relates to this Mac version, because Audition has never done that before.  A mixdown always ended with the last detectable bit of sound.... not with a stretch of silence.

             

            But the problem is bigger than that... the arbitrary session length STICKS.

             

            Let's say I start a multitrack session and I put a 4 minute piece of audio in track one.  A mixdown at that point gives me a file of 4 minutes plus the arbitrary slop factor... let's say 4:12

             

            Now I decide I really wanted only 2 minutes of that file so I drag the end of it until it's 2 minutes long, and now I mixdown the session again.  I STILL get a file that's 4:12.  That's just plain wrong.

             

            To begin with... It shouldn't be up to the program to add an arbitrary amount of time to the end of a session for reverb decay... especially when no reverb has been added. 

             

            How come Adobe Audition 3 can figure out when the audio actually ends but 4.0 can't?

            • 3. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
              digital.alchemy.studios

              I think it's a smart move on their part Fenton. But only if we can swat the garbage insertion problem of the plug-in bleed throughs from the non modal dialogues first.

               

              I would suggest a few dry runs with it first. It seems to take care of itself with crossfading issues and seems like something requested from A3 at first glance.

              • 4. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
                P.W. Fenton Level 1

                I have no idea what "But only if we can swat the garbage insertion problem of the plug-in bleed throughs from the non modal dialogues first." means, but thanks for your assessment.

                • 5. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
                  Scott Carver Level 1

                  Unfortunately, automatic behavior can cut both ways - if we stop mixing down after the last clip, then we're stepping on the toes of anyone who purposely extended the length of their session to make room for reverb or just extra silence (and, mixing down something different than the reported session duration). Either way, we're confounding someone's expectations.

                   

                  I've bugged the behavior you reported, so we can take a look it and determine if we can be smarter about our mixdown length. To be clear - your preference would be to always be able to mix down only to the end of the last clip, no padding?

                   

                  And, to clarify - we always mix down exactly what you're seeing in your session. In the scenario you described, hit zoom out full to readjust your session length - it will zoom you back in to your new clip duration, and you'll avoid the 4:00+ mixdown.

                  • 6. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
                    P.W. Fenton Level 1

                    My preference would be to mix down to the length of the last AUDIO... not necessarily the end of the last clip (although that would be preferable over the present way it works).  In other words if there is a long reverb set on the last clip... the mixdown should end when there is no longer any sound.

                     

                    The way it works now, you are forcing me to edit something I thought I already edited.

                     

                    I just went back and checked again.  I loaded an audio file that was 3:57 into track one.  I exported a mixdown of the session which gave me a file 4:21 (allowing for a 24 second reverb decay?).  Then I trimmed track one to 2:00, and zoomed to the length of the audio (which works fine).  Then I exported a session mixdown and got a 4:21 file.

                     

                    Something ain't right.

                    • 7. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
                      _durin_ Adobe Employee

                      There's a difference between "zooming" into a region on the timeline and using the "Zoom Out Full" button.  Standard zooming doesn't modify the timeline duration, but the "Zoom Out Full Both Axes" button located to the right of the navigation bar above the editor, will adjust the total session duration if you've changed the position of the last clip.

                       

                      A method to achieve a precise duration for your mixdown would be to select the region you want in the final file and choose Multitrack > Mixdown to New File > Time Selection.  If track effects invoke an effect tail beyond this region, it will be truncated, but otherwise, should make for very precise mixdows.  (You can also make the time selection once, press "M" to create a range marker, then anytime in the future, double click the marker title to select the region.)

                      • 8. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
                        P.W. Fenton Level 1

                        _durin_ you are giving me more work arounds.  Why wouldn't a session be as long as the audio in the timeline?  What would the purpose be for it to be anything else?  Why wouldn't shortening the program material be sufficient to shorten the session?  I can't think of a reason.

                        • 9. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
                          digital.alchemy.studios Level 1

                          It shouldn't be, if anything is instantiated. Just wouldn't make sense

                          though 30 seconds for a reverb is a considerably long time. unless that is what you're using.

                           

                          Durin?

                          • 10. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
                            _durin_ Adobe Employee

                            The timeline duration typically extends 10% beyond the last audio clip in the session.  If the last clip out-position is reduced (by trimming or removing a clip) the duration remains unchanged until it is forced to recalculate using the zoom out full tool, where it extends 10% beyond the new out-position.

                             

                            There are many reasons for maintaining a session duration that is larger than the content currently in the session.  In radio and video production, markers may be positioned at specific points in time for content that may be inserted later such as outros, interviews, commercials, and station identification breaks.  But primarily, Audition tries not to make the assumption that it knows better about what you want than what you may have already done with your session.  If you previously extended the timeline and placed a clip at 10 minutes, then moved the clip back to the 2 minute mark, Audition operates under the belief that the operation that extended the duration was done with intention and until told otherwise, it honors that intention.

                             

                            I will enter a feature request to make this behavior a preference.

                            • 11. Re: Empty time added to mixdown entire session
                              P.W. Fenton Level 1

                              You say that "In radio and video production, markers may be positioned at specific points in time for content that may be inserted later such as outros, interviews, commercials, and station identification breaks."  I used to do that all the time (I work in radio) in 3.0... and they would stay there waiting for me to use them.  We aren't talking about markers here... we are talking about totally empty space being output as if it was audio.

                               

                              Then you say "But primarily, Audition tries not to make the assumption that it knows better about what you want than what you may have already done with your session."  So you decide the first thing I did is what I want to do despite my editing what I did?  Come on.

                               

                              Then you say "If you previously extended the timeline and placed a clip at 10 minutes, then moved the clip back to the 2 minute mark, Audition operates under the belief that the operation that extended the duration was done with intention and until told otherwise, it honors that intention."  That is crazy... you are actually telling me that my very first decision is the only one you will respect.  The fact that I changed it doesn't mean anything unless I go through the steps to convince you... and even then you will add 10% to whatever I finally decide?

                               

                              Absurd. 

                               

                              So far you guys have almost convinced me this is NOT a port of AUDITION to the Mac.