3 Replies Latest reply on Nov 12, 2010 2:14 PM by TeetowSBZ

    Is Audition still converting Markers to zero-length Regions on save?

    TeetowSBZ

      A key part of my workflow as a sound designer is bringing recorded samples (VO, sound effects etc) into Audition for restoration and sound design, primarily using the spectral editor. These files typically have markers identifying takes, points of interest etc. When saving them, Audition seems to convert Markers into Regions of zero length, which will then confuse the parent program (Sony Vegas in this case). Can anyone verify if this is still the case? If not, can this behavior be altered? I'm not crystal clear on what the RIFF / WAV specification states, but I've not come across it in other sound editors -- Markers are separate from zero-length Regions when saving files in e.g. Sound Forge.

       

      Also, is unnamed Markers automatically given the name Marker 01, Marker 02 and so on? This is another issue I have, since it prevents my scripts from recognizing the markers once they go back into Vegas.

       

      Otherwise, let me just take this opportunity to thank you for an amazing tool. It has truly revolutionized the way I work.

        • 1. Re: Is Audition still converting Markers to zero-length Regions on save?
          TeetowSBZ Level 1

          I should perhaps point out that what I describe happens when opening and saving WAV files on Windows. I don't have access to an Intel Mac at the moment, and cannot test the beta myself.

          • 2. Re: Is Audition still converting Markers to zero-length Regions on save?
            Charles VW Adobe Employee

            TeetowSBZ wrote:

             

            These files typically have markers identifying takes, points of interest etc. When saving them, Audition seems to convert Markers into Regions of zero length, which will then confuse the parent program (Sony Vegas in this case). Can anyone verify if this is still the case?

             

            Thanks for the post and your patience on the reply.  Digging through my RIFF specs is something I enjoy doing, but always requires a fresh pot of coffee.  I think I see what you're saying (that is, I can notice a difference which looks like what you're describing).  I tested with a WAVE file from Sony Sound Forge (I figured it was "close enough" to Sony Vegas).  To "get the full picture" of Cues, Markers, or Regions in a WAVE file, you have to look at several Chunks within the WAVE file...

             

            I created a file in Sony Sound Forge, it has 4 CuePoints found in the Cue chunk.

             

            CuePointID: 1ID: 2ID: 3ID: 4
            Position4454413542417638442998
            DataChunkIDdatadatadatadata
            BlockStart0000
            SampleOffset0000

             

            It has 4 Labels found in the Labels Chunk.

             

            LabelCuePointID: 1CuePointID: 2CuePointID: 3CuePointID: 4
            TextRegion 00:00:01.010 to 00:00:02.008 (Region 01 / Region 02)Marker 03Region 04 3.999-4.580CMD TEXT: This is a text command

             

            It has 2 LabeledTextItems which correspond to the two Cues that are actually Ranges

             

            LabeledTextItemCuePointID: 1CuePointID 3
            SampleLegnth4403225600
            PurposeID544106354544106354
            Country00
            Language00
            Dialect00
            CodePage00
            Text

             

            These show up in the Public Beta as:

            Screen shot 2010-11-12 at 1.29.48 PM.png

            Now, if I resave this through the Public Beta Build, and analyze these chunks, the new file has:

             

             

            CuePointID: 1ID: 2ID: 3ID: 4
            Position4299844544135424176384
            DataChunkIDdatadatadatadata
            BlockStart0000
            SampleOffset0000

             

             

            LabelCuePointID: 1CuePointID: 2CuePointID: 3CuePointID: 4
            TextCMD TEXT: This is a text CommandRegion 00:00:01.010 to 00:00:02.008 (Region 01 / Region 02)Marker 03Region 04 3.999-4.580

             

            But now has 4 LabeledTextItems!

             

            LabeledTextItemCuePointID: 1CuePointID: 2CuePointID: 3CuePointID: 4
            SampleLength044032025600
            PurposeID544106354544106354544106354544106354
            Country0000
            Language0000
            Dialect0000
            CodePage0000
            Text

             

            And still shows up in the Public Beta as:

            Screen shot 2010-11-12 at 1.38.48 PM.png

             

            (yes they look deceptively the same)

             

            So, the big difference is that we now have a LabeledTextItem for each CuePoint and not just the ranged CuePoints.  I would imagine that the reason why we would do this would be an optimization such that if all you did was change the offsets or durations of markers, we could quickly save without having to resize or rewrite chunks in the WAVE file.  On the other hand, if this is causing interoperability problems with other applications, I'll call it a bug.

            TeetowSBZ wrote:

             

            Also, is unnamed Markers automatically given the name Marker 01, Marker 02 and so on? This is another issue I have, since it prevents my scripts from recognizing the markers once they go back into Vegas.

            No, this is no longer happening.  If the CuePoint doesn't have a label (see tables above), then we won't automatically populate them with Marker nn when we open the file.

            TeetowSBZ wrote:

             

            Otherwise, let me just take this opportunity to thank you for an amazing tool. It has truly revolutionized the way I work.

            Opportunity granted.  Thanks for the feedback.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Is Audition still converting Markers to zero-length Regions on save?
              TeetowSBZ Level 1

              Thanks for the very extensive reply!

               

              Now I just have to go find a cryogenic chamber so I can leap forward to the release day of Audition 4 for Windows =)