16 Replies Latest reply on Dec 15, 2010 9:30 AM by TheInformationStation

    Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User

    TheInformationStation

      I've only had the program for 24 hours and so far like it, but since I work at 4 radio stations producing commercials and talk shows I have some input. To clarify where I come from here are the programs and situations I work from:

       

      1. In my AM station's production studio, I use a heavy duty Windows XP machine with an Audio Science Sound Card and Audition 1.5. To answer a question, why haven't we updated 1.5 to 2 or 3, well it's really solid, has no problems and to be honest, for an AM News/Talk format the compressor and the time squeeze works great for vocal format.
      2. In my FM station's production studio, I use a similar machine with same sound card and Audition 2.0. It also works well.
      3. What brings me to a Mac - Well since all of our computers are networked and my mac sees them and they see me, I'm able to use my office (cheeper real estate than a full on production studio) and Mac Book Pro to assemble commercials and talk shows.
      4. The programs I use on my Mac are Bias Peak LE 6 for CD Ripping, CD Burning, prepping files for multitrack insertion (more on multi track later), after multi track mixdown, cleaning up (compression/normalization/time squeeze) of files and exporting in any format needed. We use .wav for on air use in our on-air systems. For being a basic editor, Audacity has been working well for me since it's cross platformed and for basic 3-4 tracks needed for what I do, it's great and can be worked on Mac and Windows with no problems.

       

       

      Now for my points from 24 hour observation and trying to get some work done today:

       

      • CD Ripper Needs to be included. Good example, I just needed to put music from our commercial CD library behind a voiced spot and thought I'd record voice in production studio and walk to my office edit and mix. Well, no self contained CD ripper just made me realize it was faster to either work back in the studio with the Windows version of Audition or with my Bias Peak/Audacity combo in my office on the Mac. CD Ripping missed and it's a productive tool for those of us who share with other machines.
      • On Windows Audacity and Bias Peak there are three features I use heavily.
      1. Rate Change - For example turning a 48k file to 44.1k.
      2. Stereo to Mono the File
      3. Mono to Stereo the File.
      • On my Bias Peak Program I really like being able to quicly highlight between markers by double clickinand either silence the selected area or increase it's level, apply an effect, etc. I don't think I'm able to do that on this or any version of Audition.

       

      There's my initial thoughts. I'll be running the program through it's paces heavily.

        • 1. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
          Charles VW Adobe Employee

          TheInformationStation wrote:

           

          • CD Ripper Needs to be included. Good example, I just needed to put music from our commercial CD library behind a voiced spot and thought I'd record voice in production studio and walk to my office edit and mix. Well, no self contained CD ripper just made me realize it was faster to either work back in the studio with the Windows version of Audition or with my Bias Peak/Audacity combo in my office on the Mac. CD Ripping missed and it's a productive tool for those of us who share with other machines.

           

          As mentioned on other threads, OSX allows you to read CD tracks directly.  In our File > Open dialog, these just show up as AIFF files.  You can then edit and save as you like.  You can also just drag these files from Finder directly on to the application.

           

          TheInformationStation wrote:

           

          1. Rate Change - For example turning a 48k file to 44.1k.
          2. Stereo to Mono the File
          3. Mono to Stereo the File.

           

          You'll find this at Edit > Convert Sample Type.  This feature has had a number of improvements.  You can create presets for the settings you use the most, and then you can create a Favorite and assign a keyboard shortcut to that for easy access.

           

          TheInformationStation wrote:

           

          • On my Bias Peak Program I really like being able to quicly highlight between markers by double clickinand either silence the selected area or increase it's level, apply an effect, etc. I don't think I'm able to do that on this or any version of Audition.

           

          If you double-click on the handles for a marker range, then we'll highlight that range, but I'm not sure if that's what you're asking.

           

          Marker Range2.jpg

          • 2. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
            _durin_ Adobe Employee

            In addition to selecting a region between markers, Audition 3 introduced an on-screen HUD in the editor that allows you to make fast, visual, real-itme adjustments to amplitude levels.

            • 3. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
              TheInformationStation Level 1

              Hi Gang - I'm back and had another full day of producing commercials and a one hour show. Also I wanted to point out that after reading my original post, I'm thankful I'm in radio because when I'm tired my spelling and process of sharing my thoughts online is awful.

               

              Thanks to all of you who replied.

               

              I'm becoming a happy camper with the program. It's fast, stable on my 4 year old Mac Book Pro. Does what I need it to do.

               

              Still I'm experimenting and pushing the program pretty hard.

               

              Jeff

              • 4. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                _durin_ Adobe Employee

                Thanks, Jeff.  Don't hesitate to ask how to accomplish other tasks if you run into problems, since there's no help manual at this time.  Otherwise, my advice is to right-click in areas you are trying to accomplish something as you'll often find the tool in the popup menu.

                • 5. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                  TheInformationStation Level 1

                  I thought I'd provide some more input now that I'm week into using the program. This may be long winded, but I'm hoping to give you the complete work flow.

                   

                  1. My on air automation system requires 44.1/16bit WAV audio to run on the air. It has a program that will take either WAV or mp3 and make sure it's compatible before airing and assigns the file a playback number. I've stumbled into something interesting. Let's say I take an mp3 file, make a small edit, convert the sample type to 44.1/16bit/mp3 and save the file into the automation system, and re open the file and hit save again, it's saving it as a 44.1/32bit/mp3 file. Despite converting the sample type again to 44.1/16bit/mp3, the automation system doesn't recognize it. So if I Save AS as WAV with 44.1/16bit, the automation system again doesn't recognize it. So I deleted all the files including PKS and opened up the original in Bias Peak LE 6 and saved it as a WAV and all was happy. I don't know if it's the PKS file causing the confusion, if the files are not completely saving as 16 bits and remaining 32 bits. At a loss here. I'm going to experiment to not to save directly into automation and just drag the file into the automation's folder and leaving the PKS file behind.

                   

                  2. Feature Requests

                       a. Mixdown to new file, please add Selected Clips

                       b. When either importing audio or opening audio, could we have a play button so we can quickly listen to what we are bringing in? That's a feature in      Windows version.

                   

                  Other than that, I like the program. I'm getting into a good work groove with it.

                   

                  Jeff

                  • 6. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                    Charles VW Adobe Employee

                    TheInformationStation wrote:

                     

                    1. My on air automation system requires 44.1/16bit WAV audio to run on the air. It has a program that will take either WAV or mp3 and make sure it's compatible before airing and assigns the file a playback number. I've stumbled into something interesting. Let's say I take an mp3 file, make a small edit, convert the sample type to 44.1/16bit/mp3 and save the file into the automation system, and re open the file and hit save again, it's saving it as a 44.1/32bit/mp3 file. Despite converting the sample type again to 44.1/16bit/mp3, the automation system doesn't recognize it. So if I Save AS as WAV with 44.1/16bit, the automation system again doesn't recognize it. So I deleted all the files including PKS and opened up the original in Bias Peak LE 6 and saved it as a WAV and all was happy. I don't know if it's the PKS file causing the confusion, if the files are not completely saving as 16 bits and remaining 32 bits. At a loss here. I'm going to experiment to not to save directly into automation and just drag the file into the automation's folder and leaving the PKS file behind.

                     

                    Which automation system are you using?  More importantly, can you post or send sample files of some that do work and some that don't work?  I'd like to analyze the differences to see what the culprit is.

                     

                    TheInformationStation wrote:


                         b. When either importing audio or opening audio, could we have a play button so we can quickly listen to what we are bringing in? That's a feature in      Windows version.

                     

                    In OSX, you can use the [ Spacebar ] key to use Quick Look to do just that.  Just note that in OSX versions prior to OSX 10.6.5, this has sometimes caused some random instability, so we're suggesting that if you're already on Snow Leopard (OSX 10.6.x), that you install the latest OS updates.

                     

                    TheInformationStation wrote:

                     

                    Other than that, I like the program. I'm getting into a good work groove with it.

                     

                    Great, keep the feedback coming!

                    • 7. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                      TheInformationStation Level 1

                      Sorry for the late reply on this and I'll be running some tests over the weekend. I use Scott Studios SS32 and the program they utilize to make sure everything works with their on air playback is a specific program called TLC - Trim - Label - Convert. It converts MP3 files to .wav and makes the file specific to run on the main automation portion which requires 44.1/16bit either stereo or mono.

                       

                      Since I was on a time crunch for the holiday week, I wasn't able to create a file to fail and small enough to send to you. However I did use Audition to create a 54 minute 48 second long show which utilizing the multi track editor (I have the settings for mono, 44.1 & 16 bit) I told the program to mix down to a WAV file and sent it to the TLC file on the network. I walked down to the production room, opened the TLC program, looked for the file I mixed down and TLC said it was an unrecognizable or compressed file. I reopened the file in Audition and despite it saying it was a 16 bit file, I selected convert and still TLC wouldn't recognize. So I opened the same exact file up Audacity on the windows production machine and exported it out with a different title and TLC would recognize it.

                       

                      My next goal is to export out a file to my mac's desktop and then making sure I don't take the .pks file with me, just copy the WAV or MP3 file right over and see if TLC will work with it.

                       

                      I'll let you know how it goes.

                       

                      Jeff

                      • 8. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                        TheInformationStation Level 1

                        One more thing. I also have another station that uses RCS/Prophet NexGen running WAV files only, I'll see how the program responds to the files I'll send it.

                         

                        Jeff

                        • 9. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                          _durin_ Adobe Employee

                          You can prevent .pks files from being written to disk by disabling the preference Media & Disk Cache > Save Peak Files.  This may result in a slower load time when opening WAV files up after the first time, but will prevent any confusion between the WAV and the PKS file.

                           

                          One test to try when writing out WAVs is to uncheck "Include markers and other metadata" in the Save As dialog.  Perhaps these playback systems do not like the extended metadata in the headers?  In any case, it would definitely be valuable to see the same audio file as saved from Audition and Audacity where one won't load but the other will.  We can then dissect the headers and look at what's different.  You might be able to attach them to a post here in the forum, but feel free to e-mail them directly to audbugs@adobe.com

                           

                          Thanks.

                          Durin

                          • 10. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                            duramaxjack

                            Not to mention the inclusion of CEL file extension for backwards compatibility.  Without this, this version is useless in our studio.  We also run audition 1.5.  Why? Because it does exactly what we want and does it well. Without CEL we won't upgrade the MAC computers to this version and will continue to use audition 1.5 either in crossover or parallels.

                            • 11. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                              TheInformationStation Level 1

                              Here's some good news. Just making sure the MP3 file only going to automation system without pks file works. I have not been able to experiment with WAV yet. I'll let you all know.

                               

                              If I have problems with the WAV, I'll e-mail it to you.

                               

                              So far so good. No lock ups, no crashes and again I'm discovering my work flow on this.

                               

                              Jeff

                              • 12. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                                TheInformationStation Level 1

                                Saving without the Metadata and Tags and in WAV works.

                                • 13. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                                  Charles VW Adobe Employee

                                  TheInformationStation wrote:

                                   

                                  Saving without the Metadata and Tags and in WAV works.

                                  If possible, can you save two very short WAV files and send or post them  somewhere.  One with the option checked, and one without.

                                   

                                  I'd like to narrow down which RIFF chunk is causing the interoperability problems with the automation system.

                                  • 14. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                                    TheInformationStation Level 1

                                    I just tried e-mailing back two 60 second stereo projects from the same session (one with and one without metadata/makers) and the e-mail bounced back. so my only recommendation is do do a mixdown from a session you create as a wav/16bit/44.1kbs/stereo or mono with and without metadata/markers and I hope you see the difference. With RCS/Prophet/NexGen automation with another station I work with, it works with or without Metadata/Markers.

                                     

                                    On another note. I had my first hang up this morning. I had to re do a session and import new files into an existing session. After I applied an EFX to them (tube modeled compression) the files acted like they were corrupted. In the end I closed and reopened the program and everything acted as normal. In this 5 week period that has been my only hang up.

                                     

                                    Jeff

                                    • 15. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                                      Charles VW Adobe Employee

                                      TheInformationStation wrote:

                                       

                                      With RCS/Prophet/NexGen automation with another station I work with, it works with or without Metadata/Markers.

                                       

                                      So to summarize, it works with RCS, Prophet, NexGen, but not TLC.  However, if you don't embed metadata (unchecking the option), it works with TLC?

                                      • 16. Re: Input from Windows Audition, Mac Bias Peak, & Audacity (Win/Mac) User
                                        TheInformationStation Level 1

                                        Sorry for the delay, but here's the answer now that I double checked both Scott Studios/TLC and our other station that runs RCS/Prophet/NexGen. For both systems the Metadata/Markers need to be unchecked.

                                         

                                        With Scott Studios/TLC, the program doesn't recognize the file at all.

                                         

                                        With RCS/Prophet/NexGen a screen pops up and says that it cannot calculate the length of file to import.

                                         

                                        Jeff