27 Replies Latest reply on Nov 26, 2010 8:10 PM by Colin Brougham

    P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?

    JVKPRO

      Hey everyone, I'm new to P2 footage and have recently shot on the HVX. Now first thing I notice, is that the audio and video are separate. Why is that? Is there a way in premiere to sync them up without linking every clip? Thanks in advance.

        • 1. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          You can use the Media Browser to navigate to your P2 CONTENTS folder; Premiere will show the files as movie clips and you can drag them into your project. You can also use a standard import process and just select the video clips; Premiere will bring the audio in as well.

          • 2. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            Why is that?

             

            The short answer is, Panasonic screwed up.  The MXF format was designed to hold video, several tracks of audio, timecode and other metedata all in a single file.  Yet Panny chose to split these things up unnecessarily, creating the cumbersome folder structure.  Premiere may get around that nicely, but it would still be nice if Panny (and Sony) had done things right from the beginning and created one file per clip, as the newest Canon models are now doing.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              Knew this was coming...

              • 4. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                You can't say I'm an unpredictable mystery.

                 

                Besides, the more people that know the truth, the more that may contact Panasonic and ask them to fix this issue.  The more that do that, the better the chance it'll actually happen.  (Especially now that Canon HAS fixed it.)

                • 5. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                  shooternz Level 6

                  Despite Jim's little rant...it is very very simple to deal with P2@ mxf in PPRO

                   

                  You simply bring the video file into the source monitor or the timeline and the audio stream comes with it automatically.

                   

                  It is un necessary to have to link or synch audio and video in the NLE  because it is linked & synched already.

                  • 6. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                    JVKPRO Level 1

                    Well this would be nice, but unfortunately this isn't happening. The clips are in two separate folders, when I bring the clips in the source video panel, no automatic process takes place. They're just a bunch of video and audio clips. Did I do something wrong importing? I just brought them over from a card reader.

                    • 7. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      Did you keep the entire folder structure intact? Should look like this:

                       

                      p2.png

                       

                      If you tear the audio and video MXFs out of the structure, and don't maintain the CLIP folder, at that point they're just individual files.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                        JVKPRO Level 1

                        Ugh...No, I didn't. Lesson learned. Luckily this project doesn't rely to heavily on the camera's audio. I knew their had to be an easier way...Thanks everyone!

                        • 9. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                          Next time, just create top-level folder that somehow reflect your shooting order (like REEL01, REEL02, etc.), and then copy the entire CONTENTS folder structure (including the CONTENTS folder, not just the subfolders) and the LASTCLIP.TXT file (not really necessary, but worth keeping around, just in case) into each waiting top-level folder. The Media Browser will look at each of these top-level folders as bins, so you can import all or some of the clips into your project.

                          • 10. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            Ugh...No, I didn't.

                             

                            And that's why I rant.  Folder structures are entirely unnecessary using the MXF container.  Adobe has come up with an elegant work around, but it's better yet to not need such a work around.

                             

                            The sooner Panny and Sony join Canon on the single-file bandwagon, the better.

                            • 11. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                              shooternz Level 6

                              Jim,

                               

                              I am not sure why you would call this a "work around".

                               

                              1. You ingest (file transfer) the contents of a P2 card onto a local hard drive.

                               

                              2. In PPRO you take any or all video clips from the media browser and put them in a Project Bin of your choice.

                               

                              Perfectly synched and plenty of options eg tracks to use

                               

                              How hard is that?

                               

                              Compare that with your current convoluted realtime plus workflow from mini DV tapes.

                              • 12. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                I call it a "work around" because if the folder structure does not remain intact, as it wasn't for the OP, you get into trouble.  Because you can't do any file manipulation using a file manager, such as renaming, without breaking things.

                                 

                                Solid state is definitely two steps forward from tape - we get immediate availability of the media, and faster than realtime transfer to the edit system.  But it is also a step backwards in the way the files must be treated.  We lose functionality we had when using tape.  RED and now Canon have removed that backwards step by putting everything into a single file, which can be renamed or otherwise manipulated on the hard drive without breaking anything.

                                 

                                I don't mind adding new featires and making things better, but don't take away things we already had when you do.

                                 

                                It's the same basic idea behind my camera rants.  All SD cams has full resolution imagers and recorded only I-frames.  Keep that for every single HD camera.

                                 

                                What confuses me is why anyone would argue against my point here.  I'm not suggesting anyone stay away from solid-state because of it's folder structure.  I'm suggesting others take up the cause for putting everything in a single file, so that future cameras will not have this backwards step.

                                 

                                How is that not better?

                                • 13. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                  shooternz Level 6
                                  Because you can't do any file manipulation using a file manager, such as renaming, without breaking things.

                                   

                                  Absolutely untrue.

                                   

                                  I take heaps of files outside of the "structure" and use them independently and renamed.

                                   

                                  A lot of my work is product and MOS.  so  I archive the shots that I use over and over again in different projects on the different machines around here.

                                   

                                  There is no functionality loss that I can think of or have experienced.

                                  • 14. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                    I take heaps of files outside of the "structure" and use them independently and renamed.

                                     

                                    Can you then use them in Premiere and have them work exactly as before (with sound and timecode)?

                                    • 15. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                      shooternz Level 6
                                      Can you then use them in Premiere and have them work exactly as before (with sound and timecode)?

                                       

                                       

                                      My workflow where I  rename and manage mxf clips (outside of the P2 Contents Folder) has been  for the purpose of archiving shots that I re use in projects apart from the original.  These tend to be MOS (no sound) product shots eg, fries and coke, tomato slice, sauce stir....

                                       

                                      They work perfectly in all Premiere Projects and timecode is retained as per original clip.

                                       

                                      I have done the same with mxf audio tracks as well when I was sharing the audio recorded on set but there was no need to share the video.

                                       

                                      I have never had the reason to do rename Synch clips and would use the original file should the need arise.  In some instances I have created an intermediate.

                                       

                                      I certainly have never found the need to waste time naming or renaming the files as I did with DV capture for the purpose of editing in PPRO

                                       

                                      I do a simple and fast logging procedure using the Description (and other columns)

                                      • 16. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                        I'll take that as a "no".

                                         

                                        But there still stands my other question.

                                         

                                        How is it not better to have it all in one file, where you CAN do whatever you want to the files, including renaming them if you want to, for whatever reason an editor may want to, and not break any functionality?

                                        • 17. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                          shooternz Level 6

                                          To me its a yes.

                                           

                                          Thats a confirmation from me  that you can independently manage .mxf files outside the P2 structure that you maintain can not be done without "breaking" something

                                           

                                          Whatever...

                                           

                                          I dont get why you need to rename files but I guess you have your reasons within your own edit and shoot workflow.

                                           

                                          Renaming files  just does not figure in my primary  workflow that I use in shooting and editing  tapeless media

                                           

                                          My tapeless workflows... work perfectly for me.  They are simple, effortless and fast.

                                           

                                          Mostly they are "invisible"  (native) unless I choose to drill deeper into the Contents folder for various reasons as mentioned above.

                                           

                                          Usually, I see and use only a Video file  eg.  xxxx.mxf and if it is synch sound or MOS thats all I get in the Project Bin  (one clip / one file)

                                           

                                          P2 in practice ...is a single file from an editors and shooters POV.

                                           

                                          A single file from a camera would make no particular difference to me in the real world.

                                           

                                          Basically I shoot  "various" and I use whatever to get the results required.  I am not arguing for or against your single file (video / audio) but I felt you need to know that its no big deal or unusual to deal with.

                                          • 18. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                                            To me its a yes.

                                             

                                            That is only because, by your own admission, your modified clips contain or need no audio.  The answer must be valid for all workflows, including those which record sound only to camera and require that audio for current and future projects.

                                             

                                            Renaming files just does not figure in my primary  workflow

                                             

                                            That's fine.  But it does for others.  Having all data in a single file will accommodate those users.

                                             

                                            So again I ask, how is that a bad thing?  Would it hurt you in any way to have all data in a single file?

                                            • 19. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                              shooternz Level 6
                                              So again I ask, how is that a bad thing?  Would it hurt you in any way to have all data in a single file?

                                               

                                              Of course not... but it also doesnt make a jot of difference to me either. I only see and use a  single file when editing and it contains all the data (video/audio).

                                               

                                              BUt...having the facilty to take just the audio or just the video from the P2 Contents folder has been advantageous at times to me.

                                               

                                               

                                              That's fine.  But it does for others.  Having all data in a single file will accommodate those users.

                                               

                                              I do realise that it is helpful for certain users.

                                               

                                              In a certain way ..I did it myself when I captured from tape... but tapeless workflows immediately killed any reason to do so for me.

                                               

                                              Jim: Help me understand your methodology ....Why do you rename clips /files?

                                               

                                              Do you intend to do that when you get your Red  /Scarlet?

                                              • 20. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                I generally organize my media using Bridge before any project.  I rename my wedding clips in groups - Opening, Ceremony, Formals, Reception - to help with work flow.  It's easier to see which clips belong to which group in Bridge than in Premiere, so I rename them first, then import into the appropriate bin.

                                                 

                                                I rename my corporate clips, which get reused for many projects, in whatever way makes the most sense for that clip.

                                                 

                                                I don't know that RED clips are viewable in Bridge, so we'll have to see how things go.

                                                 

                                                Having said that, if it don't hurt you to have all-in-one files, and it does help others, why object?

                                                • 21. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                                  shooternz Level 6

                                                  I dont object to anything ....apart from your repeated  and predictable posts  telling us that Pana

                                                  sonic / Sony / Apple / Quicktime /  whatever "screwed up" because it doesnt fit your particular  para

                                                  digms.

                                                   

                                                  For example ...P2 in particular has very few detractors from those that actually use it.  I cant fault it in my own workflow or the exchange cross platform workflows I have regulallry with other post houses and our broadcast requirements.

                                                   

                                                  I do understand your workflow regarding logging by descriptive filenames.  That looks like a slow time waste to me and I use Bin folders (and named Explorer folders) and metadata instead for the same purpose.

                                                   

                                                  Everyone to their own.

                                                  • 22. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                    apart from your repeated  and predictable posts

                                                     

                                                    But that's how things change.  Jan Crittenden from Panasonic has repeatedly said on the DVX User forums that they listen to user requests when designing new equipment.  Canon has made the change to single file MXFs.  What inspired that change I can't say, but the way they promote it does suggest it's been a popular user request.  And I'm not really seeing the harm in pointing out this issue here and suggest that others send up communications to Panasonic asking for it to be handled.

                                                     

                                                    (Also, the renaming process is actually fairly quick, and does save time in editing.  That's why I do it.)

                                                    • 23. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                                      41NBC Engineer

                                                      Hey Colin, got a question for you. We've been importing the videos (copying all of the contents folder over) and it's been working ok, but we have to navigate into the video folder to pull video in. It doesn't work as a P2 browser (ie a single file on the user end). What am I doing wrong?

                                                      • 24. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                        Are you using the Media Browser to import media, or are you using a standard import process (File > Import, Ctrl+I, double-click in bin, etc.)? If you're using the Media Browser, the viewer should automatically switch to Panasonic P2 once you navigate to a folder that has the CONTENTS folder, provide the folder structure is intact. If you're importing in one of the other methods, you're correct: you'll have to drill into the VIDEO folder and import those files. In that case, the audio should follow suit.

                                                         

                                                        Which one of those are you doing, and which isn't working correctly?

                                                        • 25. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                                          41NBC Engineer Level 1

                                                          iI've done it both ways - first few times I used media browser and it ended up being like a normal

                                                          folder structure. Since then I've just been using file -> import (and arranging by date so we get a good semblence of order). The audio falls into place just fine, it just doesn't act like a P2 browser is all. Functional, just frustrating that its not working like it should

                                                          • 26. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                                            Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                            That's odd, then. So long as you're copying over the CONTENTS folder and everything within it wholesale, the Media Browser should recognize the folders as a P2 structure. Does this happen off of local drives, or off of connected readers/cameras/cards?

                                                             

                                                            Do note that even something like "contents" instead of "CONTENTS" will trip up the Media Browser; all folder names need to be in caps. If you copied from the cards, this shouldn't be an issue.

                                                            • 27. Re: P2 Card Video/Audio Separate?
                                                              41NBC Engineer Level 1

                                                              Aha! You have to have that CONTENTS folder as well, not just what's in it. That was the difference. Ok, problem solved - thanks.