28 Replies Latest reply on Feb 28, 2011 7:42 AM by the_wine_snob

    Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9

    NotEnoughHours Level 1

      Working on a dedicated-to-video Win7 64bit 3.3GHz machine with 3 hard disks (programs/media/scratch), 1GB video card, 24GB RAM. Recently upgraded to PE9 (from PE8), and overall very impressed.  In particular, the way my HD footage plays whilst I'm editing (w/o rendering) is much improved.  What is slowing me down a lot, however, is when I need to expand/shink the timeline, it drags horribly.  It never did this in PE8.  Since I do this a lot when working with fairly lengthy videos in order to accurately cut scenes, place transtitions etc, this is starting to get me down.  I've tried setting the track display modes to the minimal versions, but even this has no significant affect.  Any ideas anyone? Thanks...

        • 1. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          Can you be more specific? Are you seeing a lag when you use the + and - keys?

           

          Also, are you specs correct? You aren't really using a 3.3 ghz machine, are you? I assume you're using a dual-core and, more likely, a quad-core processor.

           

          Also, have you gone to Edit/Preferences and set Page Scroll to Page rather than Continuous?

           

           

          Finally, have assured that any unrendered video (indicated by a red line above clips on the timeline) is rendered as you work (the red line will turn green)? If you are using the proper project preset for your video, there should be no red lines above your clips until you add an effect or transition to them.

          • 2. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
            NotEnoughHours Level 1

            Thanks Steve.  Yes, it's a lag when using the += keys or if I just hit the icons on either side with the mouse. It's not a huge lag/delay, just not the instant movement I'm used to, and when you're trying to edit quickly it's a real pain.  Certainly not anything close to what I'd call "smooth".

             

            Specs are (looking at my system info now) HPE-190t Intel (R) Core (TM)i7 CPU X890 @ 3.33GHz / 24.0 GB (RAM).  It was a pretty expensive machine.

             

            All my clips have red lines since I'm editing a video that has the chroma-key effect (this is a video lecture with a powerpoint background behind the instructor).

             

            On preferences, it's set to page scroll.  The project is set to HD 1080i.  The video was shot with a Sony HDR-AX2000 at 1080/60i FX.

             

            Does any of that help diagnose what my problem is?

            • 3. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

              You need to render that timeline!

               

              Press Enter so that those red lines turn green and you'll see greatly improved performance.

               

              As a rule, you should render whenever you see red lines above your clips.

              • 4. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                nealeh Level 5

                Do you have an nvidia graphics card?

                 

                You are not alone with the timeline refresh problem. Also take a look at your Effects - do you see the category "GPU"? Myself, and others, had them in PRE7 and PRE8, but they've also gone in PRE9. Although I've just ordered the PSE9/PRE9 bundle ('cos the price difference from just PSE9 is small) I'll probably still mostly use PRE7 with which I get great performance.

                 

                Cheers,
                --
                Neale
                Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                • 5. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                  NotEnoughHours Level 1

                  OK - I rendered it, but it's still pretty much the same.  Even if I did keep rendering though, it would basically at least double the time I spend editing i.e. it just took 12 minutes to render 8 minutes worth of footage.  Any way to speed that up?  I just don't get why PE8 would be so much smoother?   Any other suggestions?  Thank you.

                  • 6. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                    NotEnoughHours Level 1

                    Sorry - I didn't see your reponse nealeh.  Glad I'm not the only one!  My graphics card is an ATI Radeon HD 4850...

                    • 7. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                      nealeh Level 5

                      ATI - interesting. So it may be a generic issue rather than nvidia specific. Hopefully that could increase it's chances of getting a bug fix.

                       

                      Do you see the 'GPU' category in Effects and Transitions?

                       

                      Cheers,
                      --
                      Neale
                      Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                      • 8. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                        gpecht Level 1

                        This might be a Shot in the Dark, but it fixed funny behavior of the timeline for me. Ifound this on the CS5 forum:

                         


                        I  just opened the Catalyst Control Centre Advance (ATI's Ntuner) clicked  the 'graphics tab' opened 3D chose the all tab and clicked 'use  application settings' for SMOOTHVISION HD:Anti-Aliasing + :Anisotropic Filtering 

                        Just to let other ATI users know

                         

                         

                        This worked also for nVidea cards:

                         


                        With nVidia drivers, a setting for 3D quality causes the issue.  The fix is to set the parameter to "let the application decide".  Perhaps ATI has a similar setting?

                        • 9. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                          NotEnoughHours Level 1

                          Cheers man - left the office but will try later tonight and let you know

                          • 10. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                            NotEnoughHours Level 1

                            Will be sure to look when I get back and let you know

                            • 11. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                              nealeh Level 5

                              The nvidia tip did not work for me. However playing around with the settings did at least show me that you can scrub through the video or perform other PRE tasks while it is preparing the thumbnails. But, compared to PRE7, it remains a disappointment.

                               

                              Cheers,
                              --
                              Neale
                              Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                              • 12. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                NotEnoughHours Level 1

                                apecht - thanks for the tip.  Those were actually the default...

                                • 14. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                  Ted Smith Level 3

                                  I assume you have parts of 2 video tracks continuously visible. If you temporarily disable the background track does it go any faster?

                                   

                                  Only problem I find is a complicated effect audio stutters if I dont render it otherwise the effect sometimes goes in slow motion if I dont wait a few seconds before I start the preview after a change. Maybe you are asking it to do too much with a long chroma key effect and you could edit the foreground track first & add the background after?.

                                   

                                  I only have an old core duo 2.4ghz with 4 mb ram and Windows XP.  NVIDIA  GForce 7300 SE/7200 card   My PE9 never uses more than 3gb memory.

                                   

                                  I find PE9 virtually instant to shuttle around, zoom in and out of a  recent 1900x1080i HD project on one track but with many alternate scenes  on 2 overlapping video tracks with lots of dissolves by fading the top  track in and out.

                                   

                                  On a 1 hour timeline I use the mouse on the slider to change the zoom. It changes as fast as I can move the slider.

                                   

                                  To  go to a particular point in the timeline, I zoom out with the slider, click on the dark  grey area just above where I want to go and zoom in on the point.

                                  I  then press the space bar to start and stop the preview. I cant imagine  anything quicker.

                                   

                                  I rarely make the pictures in the timeline visible  unless I really need them temporarily to locate something.then switch  them off. They are pretty useless anyway. I prefer to jot down where key  scenes are in time - it is a lot quicker than looking for the pic. Your foreground of a talking head is going to look all the same in miniature anyway!

                                   

                                  Also I keep the preview window as small as possible unless I really need to examine something.

                                   

                                  Be sure you are really recording all your project files caches and previews on a different disk to the imported media and the program/OS/pagefile. PE9 doesnt seem to like reading and writing to the same disk at the same time. There are a whole lot of settings that need changing from factory defaults to do this and it is easy to miss one.

                                  I have 3 disks.  I had it all on one disk originally and it behaved like you describe. I unraided my first 2 disks and split them up so I have 3 independent disks..

                                   

                                  Also you must keep your disks regularly defragged, particularly before you import anything, even if Windows says it is unnecessary.

                                   

                                  Ted

                                  • 15. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                    nealeh Level 5
                                    • What driver version are you using for your GeForce 7300?
                                    • In Effects and Transitions do you see a group labelled 'GPU'?

                                     

                                    Cheers,
                                    --
                                    Neale
                                    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                    • 16. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                      gpecht Level 1

                                      Just to clarify, I also updated my soundcard driver to the latest avcailable version, because some people claimed that fixed timeline problems for them.

                                       

                                      Although I can't really see how that would be connected. And I played around with the sliders in my video card's 3D settings tab, not really knowing what they are doing. I have the ATI Radeon mobility 3470 card, the newest driver posted by AMD is not compatible with my hardware, so I did only update the Catalyst Control Center software and use driver version 8.632.1.2000 from 8/17/09.

                                       

                                      I also don't have any GPU effects or transitions in V9. But I would think you could probably copy the presets from V7 or 8 and see if the work.

                                      • 17. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                        NotEnoughHours Level 1

                                        Disks are all defragged and yes - definately are using separate disks, audio drivers are up-to-date, preview window is small and disabling background tracks doesn't have any affect either.  In fact, doing some further testing, if I create a brand new project and add a small amount of STILL photos (that are less than 100KB each) - and stretch them out just enough to need to scroll the timeline, I STILL get the same issue.  So, this has nothing to do with the video format, or the size of the assets being used.... Ready to bury my head in the sand.  Anyone?????  Please?????

                                        • 18. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                          nealeh Level 5

                                          I think it is endemic to PRE9, which is probably why Adobe set the '9' timeline display to opening/closing thumbnails only (whereas '7' defaulted to all thumbnails).

                                           

                                          Cheers,
                                          --
                                          Neale
                                          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                          • 19. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                            Ted Smith Level 3

                                            I only ever use the slider to expand or contract the timeline.

                                             

                                            Slider is much faster than the keys and once you get used to it you can zoom to the just the ideal length of timeline much quicker.

                                             

                                            To see where I am in the whole project I zoom out so the timeline just fills the screen.

                                            To zoom back in to a new place in the middle I move the red pointer to about where I want - then zoom in with the slider.

                                            If I havent judged the point right, I zoom in until the pointer line is just near either end of my now magnified timeline, reposition the pointer and continue zooming in. I can usually get to anywhere in just 2 operations.

                                             

                                            The keys seem to do some sort of extra processing each time you press them so repeating presses to change a large amount is far slower.

                                             

                                            The only key I find useful is the spacebar stopping and starting the preview.

                                            • 20. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                              Ted,

                                               

                                              Like you, I use the Timeline zoom slider most of the time. One keystroke that you might find useful, however, is the \ (Backslash key), as it will zoom out to the full Timeline view instantly. Though I use my mouse more often than keystrokes for such viewing options, that \ is the exception, at least for me - quick and efficient.

                                               

                                              Good luck,

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 21. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                                NotEnoughHours Level 1

                                                It doesn't matter if I use the keys or the slider.  In v8 the movement is smooth

                                                and instant.  In v9, it drags slowing my work pace down terrible.

                                                • 22. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                  That pretty much supports what Neale has observed (along with some others), and might point to a bottleneck in the operation in PrE 9.

                                                   

                                                  Good luck,

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  • 23. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                                    NotEnoughHours Level 1

                                                    Bill - so you think this is an "officially identified bug" that is likely to be resolved by Adobe and there's probably nothing I can do about it until they do?

                                                    • 24. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                                      nealeh Level 5

                                                      Just make sure that you fill in a bug report for the issue. Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

                                                       

                                                      Cheers,
                                                      --
                                                      Neale
                                                      Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                      1 person found this helpful
                                                      • 26. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                                        NotEnoughHours Level 1

                                                        Guys - I just saw this suggestion on another thread, and man alive it actually made a huge difference to this issue.  I can actually move around the timeline, and zoom in and out without anything like the same kind of dragging.  So, anyone else with this issue, try this:  RIght click your desktop shortcut > go to properties > click on the compatibillity tab and disable "desktop composition".  Now, when I open PE9, the color scheme immediately changes to "basic" - so I'm assuming that is likely been the (or part of) problem, for whatever reason.  One thing is for sure - and I switched back 2 or 3 times to make sure - PE9 has sped up considerably.!

                                                        • 27. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                                          nealeh Level 5

                                                          Thanks for posting the tip. For me, sadly, it hasn't made any noticeable difference.

                                                           

                                                          Cheers,
                                                          --
                                                          Neale
                                                          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                          • 28. Re: Timeline expand/shrink dragging in PE9
                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                            That is good to know, though it does not look like it helped Neale. Still, others might well benefit from it. I will add that to the ARTICLE on PrE crashing/hanging, in case someone else can benefit from it.

                                                             

                                                            Thank you, and happy editing,

                                                             

                                                            Hunt