12 Replies Latest reply on Dec 1, 2010 2:26 AM by Mylenium

    Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.

    cwayers78

      I am using After Effects CS3 on Mac 10.5.8

       

      Ok, so we got this fancy new Grass Vally clip player that takes a very small number of formats. I am trying to render HD clips that are between 10 and 14 seconds long with audio embedded.

       

      One of the formats suggested is MP2.  When I try rendering an MP2 file the file extension comes out as .m2v

      Also, the audio file is rendered as a separate .wav file.  The video looks fine and is of a very small file size, but I can't play it back with Quicktime Pro. I'm not sure if the clip player will play an m2v file but I know that the audio has to be embedded in the same clip. I've looked through all of the audio settings and I can't figure out what I am doing wrong.

       

      One of the other formats it will take is Quicktime with DVCPRO50 codec.  I was able to render out some HD (1920 x 1080) files but the resolution looks like it is only about half what it should be. I've been through all of the settings that I can think of and can't see what is causing it.

       

      I am pretty much at the end of my rope. I even called Grass Valley support and told them my problems. I just assumed that most of their customers would be creating animations with After Effects. The tech support guy wasn't even familiar with After Effects so I come to you guys for support.

       

      Thanks,

      Chris

        • 1. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          I believe that DVCPro issue is a known bugs with older versions of QT in combination with some programs, but you should definitely check al lyour settings again, in particular field rendering and footage interpretation. Maybe it simply mishandles the files due to incorrect field flags. That "MP2" thing is more complex than you may think. You really need to tell us what kind of MPEG2 exactly the system expects based on the manual/ tech specs. There's just too many ways this could go wrong as their is a difference between elemantary, program and transport streams, they can be encoded with different data rates and GOP patterns plus of course they can have separate or multiplexed (inline) audio and to complicate matters, that audio can also be encoded in a variety of ways. You would be able to produce some of these formats with AE and Adobe Media Encoder CS3, several more with CS4 and CS5, but not necessarily the ones that will be compatible with the playback hardware.

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
            Dave LaRonde Level 6

            One of the other formats it will take is Quicktime with DVCPRO50 codec.  I was able to render out some HD (1920 x 1080) files but the resolution looks like it is only about half what it should be.

             

            I'm not surprised.  DVCPro 50 is limited to SD video.  Its HD counterpart is DVCPro HD, which I presume this Grass Valley clip player can't read.

             

             

             

            I even called Grass Valley support and told them my problems. I just assumed that most of their customers would be creating animations with After Effects. The tech support guy wasn't even familiar with After Effects...

             

            Does this clip player support any proprietary Grass Valley codecs, and are they available in quicktime?

             

            Stinkin' proprietary codecs.  Grass Valley... Leitch... Sony Broadcast... Panasonic Professional... the circus remains the same, only the clowns change.

            • 3. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
              Mylenium Most Valuable Participant
              I'm not surprised.  DVCPro 50 is limited to SD video.

               

               

              Now that you mention it. Would  "It was early in teh morning before my first cup of tea" be an acceptable excuse for a fishy answer?

               

              Mylenium

              • 4. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
                Dave LaRonde Level 6

                Would  "It was early in the morning before my first cup of tea" be an acceptable excuse for a fishy answer?

                 

                Of course.  I need 3/4 liter of strong coffee in the morning before I can form a coherent thought.

                • 5. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
                  Dave LaRonde Level 6

                  One of the formats suggested is MP2.  When I try rendering an MP2 file the file extension comes out as .m2v

                   

                  I should probably answer your question directly, rather than telling you what you can't do.

                   

                  Get MPEG Streamclip.  It's a freebie, and just a google away.  Then use AE to render a lossless file with audio.

                   

                  Open this file in MPEG Streamclip, and you can export an HD MPEG2 file at the appropriate bitrate for HD, with muxed audio, or audio embedded in the video track.  It will have a different file extension.  If your Grass Valley clip player needs a separate audio track, it can do that, too.

                   

                  I'm still floored that Grass Valley tech support has never heard of Adobe After Effects.  What's the deal, do they live under rocks in Grass Valley Edius-Land or something?

                  Have they never heard of Premiere Pro, Smoke, Flame, 3DS Max, Maya, Final Cut Pro or Avid, either?

                   

                  That's some tech support.

                  • 6. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
                    cwayers78 Level 1

                    Mylenium,

                     

                    This is all the spec manual says regarding MPEG-2: "Supports import of MPEG-2 programs and transport streams. If the transport stream contains multiple programs, the first detected program in the transport stream is imported as a K2 clip."

                    • 7. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
                      cwayers78 Level 1

                      Thanks, I will try the MPEG Streamclip.

                       

                      I don't mean to imply that the tech support guy hadn't heard of After Effects but he had no real experience with it. I'm certain that this isn't the first time an After Effects user has called Grass Valley with this issue. I think their standard issue answer is "It's not our problem, call Adobe."  I've worked at four different television stations and at each one we have used AE to render movies to our clip player. I have no doubt that it's the industry standard for this kind of work so it kind of baffles me that Grass Valley has no idea how to make it work with their product.

                       

                      When the Grass Valley installer came the first question I asked him was "What kind of file formats does it take?" He said he didn't know and to just start trying different things to see if they work. I pretty much told him that I didn't have time for trial and error and that it should be on page one of the manual. We eventually found the spec sheet buried somewhere in the appendix. When I called GV tech support he just rerferred me back to that sheet. Basically he's getting paid to read the manual to me but doesn't have any idea about how it actually applies to their product.

                      • 8. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
                        Dave LaRonde Level 6

                        When the Grass Valley installer came the first question I asked him was "What kind of file formats does it take?" He said he didn't know... We eventually found the spec sheet buried somewhere in the appendix. When I called GV tech support he just rerferred me back to that sheet. Basically he's getting paid to read the manual to me but doesn't have any idea about how it actually applies to their product.

                         

                        As I said before, that's some tech support.  Thanks for the warning.  Grass Valley used to be one of those 800-pound gorillas in TV, but you got what you paid for.  Apparently now you pay for the gorilla and get a monkey.

                        • 9. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
                          cwayers78 Level 1

                          Dave,

                           

                          I downloaded MPEG Streamclip 1.9.2 but when I import my losless Quicktime it looks like the option to export to MP2 is grayed out.  The other options are there but the "covert to MPEG" is a separate section within the menu.

                           

                          We were able to determine that an m2v file will play on the Grass Valley but again, that's only a video file - it contains no audio data. Every time I try to render an MP2 out of After Effects it automatically outputs a separate audio and video file. I suspect maybe this if for DVD production. I don't even know if there is a such thing as a .mp2 file.

                           

                          Thanks for your help.

                           

                          Chris

                          • 10. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
                            TimeRemapper Level 4
                            ...it looks like the option to export to MP2 is grayed out.  The other options are there but the "covert to MPEG" is a separate section within the menu

                            I believe you have to purchase the Quicktime mpeg2 component.

                             

                            I don't even know if there is a such thing as a .mp2 file..

                            .mp2 is an audio format.

                            .m2v is mpeg2 video.

                            • 11. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
                              Dave LaRonde Level 6

                              The recommendation to get the Mpeg encoder for quicktime is great: even if it doesn't help, you can always use it.

                               

                              To get and HD MPEG2 stream, it may be that you'll have to go with Telestream's Episode 6 or Episode 6 Pro:

                               

                              http://www.telestream.net/episode/overview.htm

                               

                              Yeah, it's kinda pricey, but it works.  Unlike the Grass Valley tech support staff.

                              • 12. Re: Problems rendering HD clips with MP2, and Quicktime with DVC50 compression.
                                Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                                This is all the spec manual says regarding MPEG-2: "Supports import of MPEG-2 programs and transport streams. If the transport stream contains multiple programs, the first detected program in the transport stream is imported as a K2 clip."

                                 

                                Mmh, yeah, still rather vague. Transport streams are usually only created in the playout center when sending the feed to the satellite, so we can rule out that. From AE you are always creating a program stream, but without knowing teh exact specs the thingy expects, this is still like stabbing a stick in muddy wter hoping to catch a fish.

                                 

                                Mylenium