20 Replies Latest reply: Dec 6, 2010 8:26 PM by Wade_Zimmerman RSS

    Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?

    Chemol Community Member

      Hi,

       

      Hoping someone might help me figure out how I can maintain the overprint appearance I have applied to a few elements in a document. When I save it as a PDF for the client, the overprint essentially loses it's appearance—as though I didn't even have "overprint" applied in the document.


      Any thoughts on how I can make overprint fill work when saving as a PDF?

       

      Thanks kindly,

      Chemol

        • 1. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
          Kurt Gold Community Member

          Satisfying answers may depend on which version of Illustrator you are using, as well as how detailed you describe which PDF settings you are using and which programme the client is using to open the .pdf.

           

          Among other things.

          • 2. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
            Chemol Community Member

            Hi Kurt,

             

            I am using CS4, the overprint fill is applied to large text on a poster, and the file is going to a printer who requested PDF High Quality Print (save setting).

             

            Does this help?

            • 3. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
              Kurt Gold Community Member

              In my opinion, you're still not providing enough details, Chemol.

              • 4. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                Chemol Community Member

                What else would you like to know - I answered the questions you asked ??

                • 5. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                  JETalmage Community Member

                  State exactly what you are doing and use the correct terms. There is no "overprint fill effect." There is an Overlay Transparency Mode, and you can set a Fill to Overprint.

                   

                  If you're talking about the latter, you need to specify the colors involved and whether they are process or spot. You also need to describe accurately what you see in Illustrator and what you expect to see in the PDF. You also need to state whether you have Overprint Preview turned on in Illustrator, whether you're viewing the PDF in Reader or Acrobat, and whether you are viewing separation preview, or expect to see the overprint in composite mode.

                   

                  No one can read your mind. State exactly what you are doing, command-by-command, tool-by-tool, step-by-step and use the terminology of the program.

                   

                  JET

                  • 6. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                    Chemol Community Member

                    This is the correct terminology no need to get nasty on here.

                     

                    Overprint Fill: this is located in the Attributes panel a little square

                    box that I ³checked² to apply to some TYPE as I stated

                     

                    Geeze!

                    • 7. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                      JETalmage Community Member

                      "Geeze" yourself. You've been asked at least twice now for enough information to help you with your problem, but you still don't provide it.

                       

                      Illustrator is replete with Effects. Overprinting is not an Effect.

                       

                      You still have alot of questions to answer.

                       

                      You may be viewing an overprinting fill in Illustrator with the View>Overprint Preview option turned on. That's a display mode in Illustrator that is not is not going to be visible in Reader or Acrobat. If you need to display that as a comp to your customer viewing a PDF in Reader, then you'll have to do a screenshot or otherwise fake it (as with a Multiply Transparency Mode, which may or may not replicate it, depending on the colors involved).

                       

                      Or, you may be wondering why separations don't indicate what you see in a separations preview in Acrobat. That's frequently due to a misunderstanding of what Illustrator considers "overprint" to mean in CMYK. But you still haven't stated the colors involved, or if that's what you are referring to.

                       

                      JET

                      • 8. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                        Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                        They want to know what you might have done o the text, such as given it a drop shadow etc.

                         

                        things like that are you using process color or spot colors.

                         

                        my thought is that you might be using process color and there really is not such thing as overprinting process color in a normal four color process job.

                         

                        so what you would be doing is multiplying but then that should show.

                         

                        If you have the text set to overprint then you should turn on Overprint Preview to see what it actually will look like.

                         

                        But as far as explaining a problem it might seem thorough enough to you but we are not at your computer and it is very hard to understand the what you see in front of you if you do not tell us all the steps you have taken to create the art before you set it to overprint and what it is overprint onto.

                         

                        For instance spot color onto spot color re they the same color? if so there is no effect you see what we are getting at?

                         

                        Tell us what you are doing these two other contributors an=re very knowledgeable and can help you but they need your help first.

                        • 9. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                          Chemol Community Member

                          Thank you Wade. I appreciate your objective and insightful response.

                           

                          In terms of explaining the problem—just as it may be difficult to see what I have done at my end without being here, it is just as difficult to read someone else's mind as to what information they are looking for—ie: I provided answers to previous questions, but I cannot read their mind to know what they are looking for.

                           

                          - Yes, I do have Overprint Preview on, and that is what I was basing my visual exepctations upon

                          - I am using process colour only (cmyk) as previously stated


                          Your comment: my thought is that you might be using process color and there really is  not such thing as overprinting process color in a normal four color  process job.

                           

                          This essentially answers my question—and simply / logically stated. From what I gather the answer = Overprint fill does not work in tandem with process colour

                           

                          For those of us who are not experts & thus coming to this site for assistance, your response of process vs spot is most helpful. If I was an "expert" seems like that would be the FIRST thing I would ask someone ...

                           

                          As I said, you have explained exactly what I needed to know—thank you.

                          • 10. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                            Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                            First lets be fair to each other this is the internet and like us it is not perfect.

                             

                            Then you can achieve what you want with using the Transparency panel and set the object you wanted to overprint to Multiply from the blending options drop down.

                             

                            That gives you the same effect you are seeking.

                             

                            I should point out that Illustrator should be properly applying the multiply effect when you set an object to overprint you should see a difference and though not feasible to actually over print process it is possible to multiply the color. You should see the strokes through the object above if they are black for instance.

                             

                            There should be a warning letting users know that overprinting process colors in a four color process is not practical unless of course they are the solid process colors themselves which again the proper way would be to set them to multiply o you see through them.

                             

                            So when you want to do this with process colors use multiply best way.

                            • 11. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                              Chemol Community Member

                              Thanks Wade - yes I actually sent the file to the client last night using

                              Multiply vs Overprint Fill.

                               

                              I was advised a few months back to use Overprint Fill for this project (here

                              on this site)‹so it's nice to know I was better off using Multiply to begin

                              with (my original thought)

                               

                              Appreciate your help!

                              • 12. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                                Kurt Gold Community Member

                                Chemol,

                                 

                                please breathe deeply and reread post 5. James actually provided about 12 suggestions for you about what you should describe in detail.

                                 

                                Now, in post 9 you write:

                                 

                                "In terms of explaining the problem—just as it may be difficult to see what I have done at my end without being here, it is just as difficult to read someone else's mind as to what information they are looking for …"

                                 

                                Hmh, don't you think that this statement is pretty remarkable, to say it friendly? Again, about 12 clues in order to help you to explain your problem elaborately.

                                 

                                And don't you think it should generally be a matter of course to provide as much information as possible when asking for help in a software forum?

                                • 13. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                                  JETalmage Community Member

                                  First, the answer to your question (now that we finally know what it is) was in Post 7:

                                   

                                  "You may be viewing an overprinting fill in Illustrator with the View>Overprint Preview option turned on. That's a display mode in Illustrator that is not is not going to be visible in Reader or Acrobat."

                                   

                                  Second, be aware:

                                   

                                  • It most certainly is quite "feasible" and "practical" to set a CMYK process fill to overprint.
                                  • Overprinting a CMYK fill is not the same as setting it to Multiply Transparency Mode, except in certain specific color circumstances.
                                  • Overprinting the fill and setting to Multiply Transparency Mode can be different still.

                                   

                                  For example: Set a 50M fill to overprint a CMYK photograph. Wherever the underlying photo contains, say, 25M, that area will print with a 50M component (i.e.; darkening it). Wherever the underlying photo contains, say, 75M, that area will print with a 50M component (i.e.; lightening it).

                                   

                                  Now instead set that same object to Multiply. Wherever the underlying photo contains 25M, that area will print with approximately a 63M component. Wherever the underlying photo contains 75M, that area will print with approximately an 87M component.

                                   

                                  So, if you plan to use Multiply to simulate for your customer something that is, in fact, going to be set to overprint, you may very well be in for an ugly surprise when the print does not look like the simulation. And that's why I also stated in Post 7 "which may or may not replicate it, depending on the colors involved".

                                   

                                  JET

                                  • 14. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                                    Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                                    JETalmage wrote:

                                     

                                    First, the answer to your question (now that we finally know what it is) was in Post 7:

                                     

                                    "You may be viewing an overprinting fill in Illustrator with the View>Overprint Preview option turned on. That's a display mode in Illustrator that is not is not going to be visible in Reader or Acrobat."

                                     

                                    Second, be aware:

                                     

                                    • It most certainly is quite "feasible" and "practical" to set a CMYK process fill to overprint.
                                    • Overprinting a CMYK fill is not the same as setting it to Multiply Transparency Mode, except in certain specific color circumstances.
                                    • Overprinting the fill and setting to Multiply Transparency Mode can be different still.

                                     

                                    For example: Set a 50M fill to overprint a CMYK photograph. Wherever the underlying photo contains, say, 25M, that area will print with a 50M component (i.e.; darkening it). Wherever the underlying photo contains, say, 75M, that area will print with a 50M component (i.e.; lightening it).

                                     

                                    Now instead set that same object to Multiply. Wherever the underlying photo contains 25M, that area will print with approximately a 63M component. Wherever the underlying photo contains 75M, that area will print with approximately an 87M component.

                                     

                                    So, if you plan to use Multiply to simulate for your customer something that is, in fact, going to be set to overprint, you may very well be in for an ugly surprise when the print does not look like the simulation. And that's why I also stated in Post 7 "which may or may not replicate it, depending on the colors involved".

                                     

                                    JET

                                    Let me correct something here you cannot over print cmyk in a single pass cmyk printing project there is not physical way of doing that and no one wrote that you could not set cmyk to overprint as the OP already mentioned he had done so and it displayed correctly in AI.

                                     

                                    No one suggested that overprint was the same as multiply but all that you can do with cmyk is to multiply you cannot over print color over cmyk color you can over print in certain circumstances but even at that the proper way would be to multiply.

                                     

                                    I wish John Kallas was still around so he could straighten you out.

                                     

                                    The ability to overprint CMYK colors is very limited in the real word regardless of what you can set it at.

                                     

                                    Yes what you was is correct but also incorrect because it is trying to substitute the wrong approach for the right approach then stating that they are different which is correct but wrong in concept.

                                     

                                    You cannot overprint cmyk colors which overprint by the nature of what they are a process of overprinting four colors.

                                     

                                    The only times this works as an overprint in cmyk is if the you have a solid process color over printing process colors that do not contain that color and even at that since there is an order of which plate prints first second and third and fourth it does not really work.

                                     

                                    Is that not correct?

                                    • 15. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                                      Kurt Gold Community Member
                                      You may be viewing an overprinting fill in Illustrator with the View>Overprint Preview option turned on. That's a display mode in Illustrator that is not is not going to be visible in Reader or Acrobat

                                       

                                      It is. At least if you turn it on in Acrobat's or Acrobat Reader's display preferences. And at least if you would state that you are using a current version of Acrobat or Acrobat Reader ;-)

                                      • 16. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                                        JETalmage Community Member
                                        function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                        Let me correct something here you cannot over print cmyk in a single pass cmyk printing

                                         

                                        Baloney. You most certainly can. For a simple example, apply a magenta-to-yellow grad to the underlying object. Apply a 100% cyan fill to the overprinting object.

                                          

                                        function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                        No one suggested that overprint was the same as multiply

                                         

                                        No one but you. Re-read your own error-filled Post 10.

                                         

                                        JET

                                        • 17. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                                          Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                                          Since you did not read what I wrote you are making the same mistake as tou always do and think you know it all.

                                           

                                          I already pointed out clearly enough that in certain specific circumstances it can work except you cannot reorder the stacking on press so you are essentially multiplying but since you do not understand this it does not seem correct to you. You can set the magenta to over print but if it is running under the cyan it cannot possibly overprint.

                                           

                                          You are multiplying. Except f you use solid cmyk colors you cannot possibly overprint cmyk colors over cmyk colors.

                                           

                                          Unless of course if you are living in a fools paradise.

                                          • 18. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                                            JETalmage Community Member

                                            Uh huh.

                                            So all of the overprinting black type that has been printed in CMYK documents for three decades doesn't really overprint.

                                             

                                            JET

                                            • 19. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                                              Wade_Zimmerman Community Member

                                              Now you showing how little you do know about process printing and your ability to understand what was just read.

                                               

                                              It is fine that you know how to script and you can do technical drawings but you really should leave production matters to people who understand it a lot better.

                                               

                                              And you are not be as clever as you think you are.

                                              • 20. Re: Overprint fill effect changes when saved as a PDF?
                                                JETalmage Community Member

                                                Answer the question, Wade: When you set black text to overprint in a CMYK file for a single-pass press run, does the text overprint or not?

                                                 

                                                I don't know what you're off (other than your rocker) about scripting and tech illustration. But I've been illustrating and designing for large press run commercial offset and commercial web for well over three decades. And I've spent plenty of time in press rooms, pre-press, and litho darkrooms, both before and after the advent of PostScript. I know what I'm talking about.

                                                 

                                                JET