9 Replies Latest reply on Dec 7, 2010 10:18 AM by dpz53

    Slow rendering compared to CS3

    dpz53

      I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere in this forum already, but was hoping for any new suggestions.

      In a nutshell..simple renders and exports to wmv/quicktime/ etc. of mostly :30 second clips, with not a lot of transistions or effects take an enormous amount of time. Frequently almost an hour in AME..same clips in 32 bit cs3 a couple of minutes. Longer times with maximum render quality checked, which I would expect. Any help appreciated. I'm wondering if  Windows 7 might be a part of the problem, but have tried all the tricks to improve performance. I must be missing something..realize that the 4600 card is not Mercury enabled.

      Thanks in advance.

       

      Windows 7

      Nvidia Quadro 4600

      HP xw 9400

      dual core 3.2GHZ

      16 GB ram

        • 1. Re: Slow rendering compared to CS3
          DreamCaptureMedia Level 1

          Have you tried directly exporting from Premiere? It seems that the render queue and running AME on it's own really slows things down.

           

          Ben

          • 2. Re: Slow rendering compared to CS3
            dpz53 Level 1

            Ben..thanks for the input..it seems that rendering within Premiere is a little faster..but still I can't understand why it would be crawling along the way it is..renders in AE CS5 are fast..as are  the cs3 renders are on the same dual boot machine (32 bit XP Pro). Thats what gets me. How can a 4 GB ram cs3 version on the same machine outrun the latest and greatest? Thats why I think its something in windows 7 versus XP.

            • 3. Re: Slow rendering compared to CS3
              dpz53 Level 1

              Just answered part of my own question..it must be something in Premiere CS% if AE5 is performing OK..I did read somewhere that After Effects uses a "different" part of the CPU  processing chain to render? It really is baffling me...

              • 4. Re: Slow rendering compared to CS3
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                dual core 3.2GHZ

                 

                That explains it. Dual core is not enough, and especially not with the AMD Opteron. A rough guesstimate is around 100 - 150 times slower than a fast machine.

                • 5. Re: Slow rendering compared to CS3
                  dpz53 Level 1

                  Thanks Harm..but does that explain why it's

                  only in premiere CS5 and not in AE5 and on the 32 bit xp Boot with CS3? Thats what I dont get. same clips, same effects..does CS5 hog that much processing power?

                  • 6. Re: Slow rendering compared to CS3
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    CS5 has been optimized to use SSE4.1+ instruction sets to the max, much more that with CS3. Now this is guessing, because I just don't know the intricacies of CSx, but it may well be that optimizing that code can have negative effects on the performance of CPU's that don't fully support SSE, meaning AMD.

                     

                    Second, the memory management has been seriously overhauled, and the result is that the page file is used to minimal degrees as long as it can be avoided, but the downside is that latencies when swapping from RAM to VRAM and vice versa increase.

                     

                    Now, it all seems incredible that CS5 will be slower than CS3, but there are so many things going on under the 'hood', that it is hard to give a solid and understandable explanation. Maybe Steve can enlighten us a bit, but he pretty busy right now, so you may have to wait a bit.

                     

                    FYI, not every new update or version is faster than previous ones. Sometimes the performance decreases because bugs were removed, stability improved, or other not directly discenrible features added.

                     

                    Another thing you should not forget is that support for multiple formats has increased significantly, as has added functionality. These were induced by popular demand, but the downside is that it increases the overhead of the program, reducing responsiveness. IMO Adobe should now stop to add esoteric supported formats for mobile phones, mobile toilets, and other not video related gadgets and improve further on the basics. They have done a tremendous job with CS5 and I hope they continue in this way and not spend efforts to accept even more formats.

                    • 7. Re: Slow rendering compared to CS3
                      dpz53 Level 1

                      Harm..thanks again for digging into this..I do think the AMD issue is a valid one and well explained! One last question tho..what technically is happening with Premiere cs5 when the maximum render quality and bit depth boxes are enabled. Just did a quick A and B max quality enabled and not and the render times easily tripled. All of the previous files I referred to were with those boxes enabled. That would explain the difference  in performance between CS3 and CS5. Thanks again for your expertise and help.

                      • 8. Re: Slow rendering compared to CS3
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Basically, when MRQ (Maximum Render Quality) is turned on, the rendering/encoding is done with much more accurate and complex algorithms that take much longer to finish. It is a bit like PS does when resizing an image. You can choose various resampling techniques and one takes more time than the other because it gives better results. Only with video it has to do that with 30 frames for each second of material, so there is the main difference in encoding times.

                         

                        Maximum bit depth is only of value if you ingest 4:2:2 material with a AJA or BM card over HD-SDI. Otherwise it will only pad a couple of zeroes to your material, but make the processing much more complex, resulting in far worse performance.

                         

                        Remember, if the signal is not there in the first place, nothing you do will get that back. If you start with apple-juice, there is no way to get back the original apples that now make up the juice. The same with maximum bit depth.

                        • 9. Re: Slow rendering compared to CS3
                          dpz53 Level 1

                          Harm..Very helpful information indeed. I'm sure there are others who have sat  through long renders unecessarily trying for Picasso results on Velveteen canvas!  I honestly could not tell the difference between MRQ files and those rendered without. Thanks again for the quick and thorough diagnosis and explanation. Much appreciated!