30 Replies Latest reply on Dec 21, 2010 5:54 PM by Colin Brougham

    Graphics move when adding filters

    Butch2oc Level 1

      I'm having strange things happen when using graphics.

      When I add a filter eg GausBlur my graphic moves down when adjusting blur. I also get this when I apply other filters as well, but usually when I add a second filter/plug to the graphic.

      I'm on a macpro dual quad, 16g ram and all apps are up to date

      Cheers

        • 1. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          This was a known issue for CS4.  Sounds like it hasn't been fixed yet.

          • 2. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
            Butch2oc Level 1

            I have to nest every time I want to add a filter as a workaround...

            Could not have been much testing before releasing prog

            I have attempted to migrate from FCP and in the short time on PP I have found a few issues which I believe should have been sorted out before release.

            Like "Maintain Audio Pitch" not working at all and when you increase the size of the timeline for getting a better view of multiple tracks, moving clips around becomes very slow and jerky... I can't believe it.

            I do like what PP has to offer... hopefully things will be sorted out.

            • 3. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Out of curiosity, do you have the CS5.0.3 update installed?

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                Butch2oc Level 1

                Yes Bill, as mentioned previously... all apps and system up to date.

                Do you have these issues?

                Cheers

                • 5. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  I do not have CS5 installed yet, so cannot confirm the Bug - sorry.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    I actually just tested and none of the reported bugs exist on my system.  Blur works fine, Maintain Pitch works fine, and resizing the sequence pane does not slow me down when moving clips.  You may just have a smurfed install.

                    • 7. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                      Butch2oc Level 1

                      Thanks so much for looking into my probs.

                      I'm on a Mac with Black magic Multibridge Pro.... are you PC or Mac?

                      • 8. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                        I just tried reproducing this on both Windows and Mac OS, and I failed to do so.

                        • 9. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Wonder if the BM card has something to do with it?

                           

                          I assume that you are doing full BM Sequences. Is that correct?

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                            Butch2oc Level 1

                            Yes... full BM sequences. So far I have not had enough time to test thoroughly with Non BM sequences.

                            I thought Christmas would be quieter for me like it was last year... It just got crazy.

                            I wanted to do a complete rebuild of my system but did not have time so I just uninstalled CS4 via the uninstaller

                            and loaded CS5.

                             

                            I am a little unsure to what extent or effect that BM has with Prem.

                            For example... I have an issue where I don't have audio scrub with a BM timeline and I also get video and audio files when digitising audio only.

                            I have contacted BM and they say that the audio scrub has not been implemented for Prem & BM combo on a MAC yet.

                            Displaying different fields is also not working on my system

                             

                            So maybe you guys are correct about BM being the issue.

                            It certainly is comforting to know that these issues are not on all systems.

                             

                            My question then is this...Just how much of an effect can an I/O card have on Prem?

                             

                            I actually contacted adobe re my sluggish clip movement with larger sequence windows... they confirmed the issue on a Mac at their end while I was on hold.

                            So the issue does exist.

                            The graphic movement seems to be inconsistent but happens most of the time I have multiple plugins on a layer. I initially thought that it was my saphire plugs but have managed to recreate it with internal plugs.... Apply 2 standard transform plugins... all reset... all ok. then rotate 1 slightly. and presto. I have had this problem a bit with drop shadows and only kicks in when I adjust softness or blur.

                            Cheers

                            • 11. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                              Powered by Design Level 4

                              did you un-install CS4 because you dont have enough Hard Drive space ?

                               

                              You can keep CS4 and CS5 just fine on the same system.

                               

                               

                              GLenn

                              • 12. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                Butch2oc Level 1

                                No, I was just thinking of avoiding any conflicts etc... anyway any ideas re graphic probs?

                                Can you recreate it?

                                • 13. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                  Powered by Design Level 4

                                  works here but im on a PC too.

                                   

                                  Allot of people have problems when using the BM cards and timelines.

                                   

                                  It just seems like a hit and miss thing.

                                   

                                  you only get problems is when you try to install a earlier version after a later version.

                                   

                                  I try to keep old versions going as long as I can.

                                   

                                  Hope you get it worked out.

                                   

                                   

                                  GLenn

                                  • 14. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                    with Black magic Multibridge Pro

                                     

                                    That information should always come in the original post.  It helps.

                                    • 15. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                                      I've had this issue with all CS5 updates, as well as since CS4. I'm on a PC, with no Blackmagic (or any other ) hardware; I don't think this is platform-specific.

                                       

                                      I'll post later with steps to replicate. Seems to me it was slightly more difficult to trip this bug than it was in CS4, but it can still be done.

                                       

                                      Also, are you using hardware MPE? If so, what happens when you disable it/use software MPE?

                                      • 16. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                        I've had this issue with all CS5 updates, as well as since CS4.

                                         

                                        Which one, the blur, the audio pitch, or the laggy interface?

                                        • 17. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                          Butch2oc Level 1

                                          Sorry about that Jim,

                                          My graphics card is a GTX285 (not overclocked)... should of put this in aswell

                                           

                                          I'm a little perplexed as to what extent an I/O card has on Prems functionality.

                                          I thought it would simply provide codecs for the software so the signal can be I/O'd via hardware.

                                          Seems like there's a lot I need to learn.

                                           

                                          When you say "smurfed install"... what are you exactly suggesting?

                                          I am very meticulous when it comes to my system, I do a lot of research and reading before I hit the go button with any software install.

                                           

                                          Are you suggesting a rebuild?

                                           

                                           

                                          Anyway I'll just have to keep living in workaround land until I can spend some serious time testing.

                                          Merry Christmas

                                          • 18. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                                            When you say "smurfed install"... what are you exactly suggesting?

                                             

                                            That was before I knew about the BM card.  In my experience, Premiere Pro runs very nicely if well taken care of.  The moment you start adding third-party hardware, things get more complicated and don't always run as smooth.  My suggestion about the bad install was believing you had only Premiere.  The issues you describe just don't seem common on a Premiere only install.

                                             

                                            Know that I know BM is involved, I'd seriously explore that as a cause here, including possibly removing the hardware from the ring and uninstalling any drivers.

                                            • 19. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                              Butch2oc Level 1

                                              Thanks Jim,

                                              That's what I'll do when I've got time... I'll get back maybe in the new year.

                                              Cheers

                                              • 20. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                I'll get back maybe in the new year.

                                                Butch! Not sure that your audience can wait that long. Talk about a "cliff hanger... "

                                                 

                                                Seriously, let us know what you find, and have the happiest of holidays and a wonderful New Year, as we will all be waiting, anticipating, hoping, that you find the solution.

                                                 

                                                Good luck,

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                • 21. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                  Butch2oc Level 1

                                                  You to Bill,

                                                  If I owned a software company and made millions I would most likely have all possible combos and test them out.

                                                  Looks like I will have to do it.

                                                  Cheers & Merry New Year

                                                  • 22. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                    Not that many users have issues with BM cards, but it's not unheard of. Now, Matrox - that is another story.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck, and please let us know the resolution,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 23. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                      The graphic shift has nothing to do with Blackmagic--that's a bug (or at least an issue) with Premiere itself.

                                                       

                                                      It's pretty simple to replicate. Plop a Drop Shadow effect on a title (or other alpha graphic), followed by a Gaussian Blur (or Fast Blur) effect. You can first see the shift just by swapping the order of the effects; they can be left at detent, and simply changing the relative positions of the effects will cause the graphic to jump.

                                                       

                                                      If Drop Shadow is above Gaussian Blur in the effects stack, even with GB set to 0, changing the Softness parameter of DS will shove the graphic down and to the right.

                                                       

                                                      If Gaussian blur is above Drop Shadow in the effects stack, even with DS set to 0, changing the Blurriness parameter of GB will shove the graphic down and to the right. However, in this case, you can mitigate that negative effect by ticking the Repeat Edge Pixels option in GB. No matter what you move, the graphic will stay where it should. This doesn't work in the other scenario, however.

                                                       

                                                      My understanding of this--though I'm not sure whether it's a bug or a functional limitation--is that when you're adjusting these softness parameters for either effect, you are altering the clip's dimensions via the alpha channel. That's why ticking the Repeat Edge Pixels option stops this; it clamps the alpha channel to the original image's dimensions. As you adjust these parameters, the alpha channel's dimensions bloom/grow larger, and this changes the clip's anchor point, causing the shift.

                                                       

                                                      Obviously, this isn't right, no matter how you slice it, but I suspect that simply saying it's a bug is not really getting to the heart of the matter. I imagine there are some larger underlying issues with the way Premiere Pro handles alpha channels and effects that manipulate them that would have to reworked first. In other words, this is probably not something you'll see in a point update; it will likely require a new version of the software to see a true fix.

                                                      • 24. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                        You can first see the shift just by swapping the order of the effects

                                                         

                                                        Huh?  The drop shadow is part of the title, not an effect in itself that can be seen in the ECP.  Adding the blur does not reproduce the bug for me.  It's clean and stable.

                                                        • 25. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                          Read closer...


                                                          • 26. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                            Butch2oc Level 1

                                                            Be interesting if this one I mentioned earlier creates the issue....

                                                             

                                                            Apply 2 standard transform plugins... all reset... all ok. then rotate 1 slightly. and presto. I have had this problem a bit with drop shadows and only kicks in when I adjust softness or blur.

                                                             

                                                            Glad to here it's not my box...

                                                             

                                                            Also have any of you noticed very slight noise or instability in graphics when the background has a lot of movement & contrast under graphic.

                                                            Ever noticed when a small graphic, lets say at disclaimer size dissolves up... that you get noise introduced for the duration of the dissolve.

                                                             

                                                            Not happy Jan!

                                                            BTW

                                                            Using uncompressed YUV 10 bit.... at full depth etc and view on a $10K HD tech monitor.

                                                            • 27. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                              Got it now.  Never knew there was a Drop Shadow effect.  For titles, I've always just used the drop shadow in the titler window.

                                                               

                                                              Which suggests a temporary "fix" for this little issue.  Just don't use the effect, only use it in the titler.

                                                              • 28. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                                Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                                That may be fine for titles that you don't animate, but if you apply any sort of transforms--a Z-axis spin for example--the "pre-cooked" drop shadow turns along with the title. Usually, the workaround is to animate the title, nest it, and apply the drop shadow to the nest--that way the shadow is always thrown in the same direction regardless of how the title is turning.

                                                                 

                                                                Also, this affects things like putting a drop shadow on a PIP; you don't have the option of using the titler, then.

                                                                • 29. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                                  Butch2oc Level 1

                                                                  I can't seem to find any work around for directional blur.

                                                                  I like to apply this filter to give motion blur style of look to sliding graphics... Not Usable!

                                                                  • 30. Re: Graphics move when adding filters
                                                                    Colin Brougham Level 6
                                                                    I can't seem to find any work around for directional blur.

                                                                    I like to apply this filter to give motion blur style of look to sliding graphics... Not Usable!

                                                                     

                                                                    It's actually with that effect (Directional Blur) and that particular application of it that I discovered this issue for myself. And actually, just testing it now, I discovered another bug: if you apply Directional Blur to a title that is on a track above a background clip or color matte, the blur also affects the background if the angle is anything but 90 or 270 degrees. Gotta file that one...

                                                                     

                                                                    Butch, I get that these are frustrating issues, but do take the time to file detailed bug reports; the Feature Request/Bug Report Form is the place to do that. These types of things will get straightened out if users are vocal about them and bring them to the engineering team's attention.