25 Replies Latest reply on Dec 21, 2010 2:57 PM by hhansard

    Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!

    alchemyvideo

      Hi All,

       

      Despite having been a Premiere user since version 6.0, I've never used the forums so I'm completely new here.

       

      I have major dillemas following a big upgrade at a critical time and am feeling completely abandoned by Adobe on this.

       

      I have been working on a major project for just over a year.  Recently, the demands of the project became too much for my dual core Pentium running Premiere CS3.  CS3 has never been an overly stable program when projects get to a certain size, but this time frequent crashes were making things unworkable.  In addition, when I tried the project management funtions to consolidate and backup my work, they would fail ('unknown error'), leaving my precious work extremely vulnerable.

       

      I contacted Adobe to enquire if I could build a new system  running Premiere CS5 and import my project from CS3 to continue my work (which is now overdue with the client).  The support assistant said yes, there was full backward compatibility.  You know what's coming next!....

       

      I've purchased the new system (Pentium i7 860, 8GB RAM, GTX460 1gig Graphics, Western Digital Mybook Firewire 800 Striped drive) and CS5 upgrade and got everything running.  I have brought my project into CS5 using the import/entire project function in the menu.  My project appeared and I was hopeful all was well.  When I tried to play it back, the problems became evident.  Pictures all have thin blue vertical lines from top to bottom, washed-out colours and do not play smoothly.  The main monitor cannot play back the timeline - it can only display the first frame selected.  After a short playback period, the whole program seems to go into slow motion; not a crash, but an unworkable slow down.  The timeline then stops responding and cannot be played.  When I first open the program it takes about 5 minutes to load all the assests - that can't be right surely?

       

      Basically, it seems CS5 cannot handle my CS3 project at all despite the fact that although large, it should be relatively simple.  It is a PAL SD Widescreen project that is at rough cut stage.  I have not yet applied grading or anything particularly complex (my CS3 system used to have difficulty handling projects after I had applied Magic Bulllet Looks).  All footage is in standard DV AVI format and was shot on an XLH1a.  The project also contains one uncompressed AVI file.

       

      The bottom line is I've spent a small fortune here all because the old CS3 software was not working properly and I desperately need to finish this project.  Now, the money has all gone, CS3 isn't stable enough to work on, CS5 on a brand new i7 machine barely works at all and my neck is on the line with the client.  The job is sitting in limbo when I should be plugging on with it.

       

      Sorry if it all sound a bit emotional (Christmas stress?) but I would dearly welcome any hero/heroine who can come to my rescue.  I am so disappointed with Adobe right now.

       

      Thanks in advance,

       

      Paul

        • 1. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
          hhansard Level 1

          I had a similar issue with a delivered CS3 project that needed to be updated several years later.  CS5 did not open/convert the CS3 project without problems.  My fastest way forward was to temporarily reinstall CS3. 

          • 2. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            First, try just opening the old CS3 project.  CS5 will recognize that it was created in an earlier version, and ask you to Save As with a new name.  This way the original remains intact.  I haven't has any troubles opening CS3 or CS4 projects in this way.

             

            If that fails, make sure things just plain work.  Start a new CS5 test project and import some of the same footage.  Does it work properly in in the new project?  If not, something in general is amiss not specific to the old project.

            • 3. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
              Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Blue Vertical Lines: for the Nvidia graphicscard its a setting for 3D quality that causes the issue.  Set the parameter to "let the application decide".

               

              Unlink the uncompressed avi and see how the rest works.

              • 4. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                Also, be sure to install the Premiere Pro CS5 (5.0.3) update. That update fixes a lot of problems.

                • 5. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                  alchemyvideo Level 1

                  Thank you Ann, that seems to have worked.  I couldn't see that exact

                  paramater in my NVidia settings but changed a couple of others to 'let the app

                  lication decide' and the blue lines have disappeared.  That's a start, thank you!!

                  • 6. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                    alchemyvideo Level 1

                    Thanks, I've now applied the update, but the core problems remain at the moment.

                    CS5 opens the CS3 project but the timeline only has basic functionality then freezes on playback.

                    • 7. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                      Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      How does CS5 act when you make a brand new project with brand new footage?

                      • 8. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                        alchemyvideo Level 1

                        Jim, thanks for your reply.  I've done what you said but the end result is the same as using the import feature.  Basically, everything initially loads and all looks promising (my blue line issue has gone now) and timeline playback is fine.  After a random short time (roughly 2 minutes) the timeline freezes and will no longer play at all. The program then semi-crashes (although the mouse pointer and menus are still functional).  If you select 'close project', it will eventually sort itself out and does so after about 5 minutes when it will return to the 'open project' screen.

                         

                        Regarding your idea of trying the same footage in a new project, yes it works without crashing.  However, all is not as it should be:  A brand new problem arises where audio plays for only a few seconds, then goes silent while the video continues to play back correctly!

                         

                        I feel this is a giant can of worms.

                        • 9. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                          alchemyvideo Level 1

                          Ann, I just tried a new project with completely different footage (also SD 16:9 avi) and encountered exactly the same 'freezing' issue.  Playback only works correctly for a few seconds.  First the audio goes, then the video freezes.

                           

                          This is starting to look like a hardware/software conflict of some kind.  I'm pretty sure that all drivers are all up to date though - not sure who to go to for help on this.

                          • 10. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                            alchemyvideo Level 1

                            Thanks, you're right, CS5 is NOT comatible with CS3, full stop. Just had that officially confirmed as well!

                            • 11. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                              alchemyvideo Level 1

                              Further to my last post on this, the problem has now gone away with new projects which seem to now be playing back okay.  The problems are intermittent which makes them even harder to trace.  I would hazzard a guess it may be something to do with the new Matrox Triplehead2go drivers I am using; They were only released a few days ago.  I phoned tech support:  Utterly useless and totally incapable of fixing the problem despite setting up a remote link with my system.

                              • 12. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                J Graves Level 1

                                Paul, I understand your frustration.  Like you, I juimped from CS3 to CS5.  Like you I found that CS3 Projects do not fully migrate to CS5, particularly if you had some problems with the CS3 Project.  In case you haven't been told, you can run CS3 and CS5 on the same machine. That's the only way I could "update" some legacy projects that were started with CS3.   When reading your original post, one thing juimps out at me: your harddrive configuration. I'm not certain that the external WD "My Book" hard drives, even striped, and using firewire as the interrface, has a sufficiently fast read/write capability for the type of long-form project you describe.  I would perform some Speed Tests on the drives.  Consider replacing them with SATA drives and a standard SATA connection.

                                 

                                One other suggestion might help. Consider breaking your CS3 Project into Parts (i.e. Project Name-Part 1, Project Name-Part 2, etc).  This will make working on it easier and a lot easier to importt and export.  Once you've finished working on each Part, simply output an .avi.  Then begin a new Project called Project Name-Export.  Import all your completed .avi's and lay them out on the new timeline. Your project should playback without problems.

                                 

                                Good Editing,

                                John G

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  John,

                                   

                                  Just an observation from the trenches. The FW-800 should be adequate (though eSATA is even better), and I use them liberally. Some of my Projects are monsters, though all are SD, so there are some differences there. I also do not have any of my external FW-800 devices stripped into RAID, but mine are adequately fast to edit to/from.

                                   

                                  To the OP, good luck, and I think that John's suggestion to run both CS3 & CS5 is a good one.

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                    alchemyvideo Level 1

                                    Thanks to John and Bill for your comments.

                                     

                                    John, that's very re-assuring advice thank you.  Despite being a long-term user of Premiere, I have never reached such a basic solution as splitting a project into chunks then piecing together rendered AVIs for the client.  It makes excellent sense and I think may be the quickest solution for getting this job back on track. The shear amount of assets in the project seems to be causing the trouble.

                                     

                                    I hear what you're saying about installing CS3 and CS5 on the same system but it scares me a bit. I run CS3 on a 32bit system (XP) and the new system is 64bit (windows 7).  In addition, I don't know if there will be licensing problems as CS3 is already registered on my old machine as well as my laptop.

                                     

                                    Regarding HD speed, Bill is right.  I've used the FW800 setup for years.  It is extremely fast, even in mirror mode (data security).  In my experience it outstrips the performance of all my former internal drives.

                                     

                                    I am however, going to take your advice, give up on CS5 (it's useless in this instance and was completely mis-sold to me) but I am reverting back to my 'tried and tested' old machine running CS3.  The next challenge is to stabilize it some how so I can continue on with the project.  I think (hope!) your stripping-down idea should work.  Incidentally, I've already tried the 'project management' options to consolidate or trim the project, but the process fails every time with an "Unknown error".

                                     

                                    CS3 is so heavily flawed in terms of stability.  In fact, I've come to the conclusion that much of what Adobe produce is heavily flawed and their customer service is nothing short of a disgrace.  When I spoke to them earlier today they refused to help me with CS3 because it is too old (a whole two and a half years old in my case!).  They also refused help getting the project working in CS5 because in their words, "CS3 projects are not compatible with CS5".  That was particularly good to hear considering it was an online Adobe adviser that told me to buy CS5 because it was "backwards compatible".

                                     

                                    On the off-chance that anyone is reading this who has yet to invest in Adobe products, I would say do so with great caution.  Support is abysmal and is by far the worst I have ever received on PROFESSIONAL products.  Obviously Adobe are now a huge company and as a result, seem to have completely lost touch with ethics and decency when it comes to customer service.  If it wasn't for this forum, I would have been 100% stranded.  Even with the forum, I still have a large predicament to deal with, and no real solution other than make-do.

                                     

                                    Many thanks to all the kind individuals who have taken the time to try and help me here, and Merry Christmas to you.  Next year, we should all make a resolution to treat ourselves to Final Cut Pro.  I have no experience of it, but it's got to be better than this.

                                     

                                    Paul

                                    • 15. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                      J Graves Level 1

                                      Paul, I'm glad to be of help, and pleased to read from you and Hunt that the drives have sufficient read-write speed to handle the load.   While Adobe support can be frustrating, I've found them to be helpful.  The one thing to remember is that "tech folks" as well as "programmers" often do not use the applications in the same manner that a professional Editor will.  When about to embark upon a Major Change, I try to get a 2nd opinion.  This forum is an excellent source.

                                       

                                      On my own system, I'm running both the CS3 and CS5 Production Suites on a Win7 64-bit machine (Win7 Ultimate).  The two seem to co-exist happily with the exception of Adobe Bridge from CS3 running in the background.  Why run both?  For one, I have a numbre of plug-ins that work with CS3 but have not been updated to CS5.  Other plug-ins have been updated but you can't fully import a timeline created in CS3 with certain plug-ins.  This will all sort itself out over time. In the meanwhile I chant my Mantra "There Is A Workaround....I just need to find it".

                                       

                                      Good Editing.

                                      John G

                                      • 16. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                        As you've already discovered, using this forum can give you better results in many cases than calling the telephone support service. But, that is not the same thing as saying that Adobe isn't providing support. Our most experienced and knowledgeable folks monitor this forum and help out as much as possible.I recommend that people start here.

                                         

                                        Also, as you've said, the problems that you're having seem to be largely a result of Premiere Pro CS3 issues, so I hope that you don't give up on Premiere Pro CS5 so easily. There have been a lot of major improvements since CS3.

                                         

                                        If you think that you were ill-advised or ill-treated by someone at Adobe, send me email at kopriva -at- adobe -dot- com, and give me the details, including the names of the folks who gave you bad information and the case numbers for any relevant support cases.

                                        • 17. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                          hhansard Level 1

                                          Wanted to follow-up after my rather rushed “CS3” suggestion on Sunday.  I apologize for the short version and your last post about “unknown error” has sparked a memory from my last CS3àCS5 effort.

                                          We had 13 segments for a program delivered using CS3.  Divided as 13 stand-alone projects.

                                          Got a call to make a quick change a couple of years later.  We had converted to CS5 in the interim period.

                                          Of the 13 projects, about 8 opened/converted AOK by CS5.  There were edited/delivered asap.

                                          Of the 5 remaining “problem children”:

                                          One froze PP CS5 upon import with no error reporting. CS5 just hung.

                                          One crashed CS5 with “unknown error”.  Returned to Open Project dialog

                                          Three opened in CS5, but exhibited extraneous behavior.

                                          We delivered the 8 ok projects right away and made the business decision to deploy an instance of PP CS3 to get the problem children in-the-can and figure-out the “why” later.  Licensing was fine and should be for you as well.

                                          The suggestion on CS3 as the fastest way forward is just that… fastest/most expedient, not most elegant nor [maybe] the best – just, with some luck, the fastest.  The longest part of the process was locating the distribution media.  Made the changes and delivered.

                                          Later, we debugged the problem children:

                                          “unknown error” and CS5 program hang were due to corrupt project files.  CS5 could not read the files and in one case CS3 could not execute project manager.  But CS3 did read and manage the projects correctly.  We exported to aap and re-imported into newly-created CS5 projects.  Some tweaks needed and done.

                                          Two of the problem children were due to effects that did not make the CS3 to CS5 transition smoothly.  We changed the effects to something “equivalent” and all was well.

                                          One project never made it across.  We created an equivalent CS5 project.

                                          One lesson we learned.  Prior to archive, run project manager.  Any hiccups in the project files may be caught prior to bigger problems later.

                                          In terms of system upgrades, Your comment about checking for “second opinions” is a good one.  We always look at user-to-user forums prior to major procurement/deployment decisions to see what problems we may experience along the way.

                                          In terms of Adobe, your mileage will vary…  had some good experiences and some really horrendous ones.  Like most software houses, it depends on the people you work with and, unfortunately, sometimes the politics of the issue.

                                           

                                          Good luck,

                                          h

                                          1 person found this helpful
                                          • 18. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                            alchemyvideo Level 1

                                            Well, no Adobe employee has as yet given me significant useful advice either on here or over the phone, so I can absolutely say they are not providing support.  All useful advice has come from regular product users who seem to me to be far more consciencious than Adobe staff.  If the most knowledgable staff monitor this forum as you say (and I do believe you), perhaps one of them would be good enough to get involved and offer some specific advice other than install latest updates etc.  Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that input, but need far more specific help to sort things out.

                                             

                                            I don't feel I have 'given up' on CS3 easily at all.  I have used it for several years and have completed an awful lot of work in it.  In other circumstances, I would not have chosen to upgrade at this stage as I like CS3 ...when it works.  The thing is, I run a one-person business and cannot devote the required time to fixing the massive stability issues that have occured in CS3.

                                             

                                            I seriously hope that when I eventually get to use it, CS5 is a major upgrade, as it's just cost me almost £1400 to change.

                                             

                                            The person who gave the bad info did so via the 'live chat' function of the Adobe website, so I don't have their personal details.

                                            • 19. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                              alchemyvideo Level 1

                                              Thanks for that info.  I think you're right about the second opinion; I feel I have been so naive. I always apply the basic thinking that if I ask a professional company for advice, the advice will be professional.  I sometimes live in la-la-land!

                                              • 20. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                                alchemyvideo Level 1

                                                John and Hhansard, sorry to bother you again on this.  Would you have any advice on the best way to split my large unstable CS3 project into smaller editable parts as you suggested?

                                                 

                                                I have a 35 minute film which I can split into three separate projects.  I don't want to render AVIs yet, as I need to be able to continue working on the project.  If I try via cut and paste areas of work (into the new project), Premiere encounters another error.  My project management options all encounter errors as well so I must rule them out as well.

                                                 

                                                Hopefully, I'm missing an easier way here.  Thanks in advance.

                                                • 21. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                                  J Graves Level 1

                                                  There are a couple of different methods to try.  First of all, I'd find points in your timeline where you can make a straight cut.  Use the Razor tool and make that cut. Then select the area after the cut, copy it, then paste it into a new timeline.  Look at the new timeline.  Find another logical place to cut, then follow the previous steps and so on to create as many timelines as you'd like.  You might consider an arbitrary length, say 10 minutes or so, for each timeline.  Save your project.

                                                   

                                                  At this point I'd try to play each of the individual timelines and see if they play back without the complications you encountered earlier.  If they play properly, then you don't need to start a new project.  If you still encounter playback problems, then save this Project before opening a new one.  Create a New Project using the same settings as your original project.  In the new project, Import the old project and open 1 of its timelines.  Save this new Proejct under a new name, save, then close and duplicate the steps to create individual Projects for each timeline.

                                                   

                                                  Frankly, I'd hope that the first step (cutting and creating new timelines within the same project), will work for you.  It is easier to keep all the timelines within a single project. If you need to create new Projects, then name them "Project X--Part 1" and so on. That way you can keep them straight,

                                                   

                                                  I hope this helps.  Also, Adobe should have a record of your Live Chat session.  That will help them find out where you got the bad info.  Just remember that this can happen with ANY company.  I've dealt with Adobe Support people who are clearly speaking from somewhere in the middle east and found then to be on top of it and very helpful.  At the same time,I've dealt with other Support people who clearly don't know anything about the Applications they are providing support for.  Follow up the offer of assistance from the Adobe employee who has posted to this thread.  Call and speak with him/her personally and give them a chance to help straighten thinjgs out.

                                                   

                                                  It has been my experience that if a person is having trouble with an Application, simply upgrading that Application is unlikely to solve the problem. It reads as if you've been having problems with CS3 for some time.

                                                   

                                                  Good Editing,

                                                  John G

                                                  • 22. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                                    alchemyvideo Level 1

                                                    Thanks John.  I'm not sure separate timelines is the answer for me, as I've read elsewhere that these problems occur with CS3 due to the size of the actual project file.

                                                     

                                                    I'll try your idea of importing the project into a new one then cutting down from there.  I'm just in the process of a few last minute try-outs before I start chopping:  I'm reducing my hi-res Tiffs to something less memory hungry and am deleting a bunch of audio files that have become redundant.

                                                     

                                                    Thanks again.

                                                    • 23. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                                      J Graves Level 1

                                                      AH HA! High Rez Tiff files!  I'll bet that's at least part of the problem.  Those can choke a horse.   For an SD Project, I would suggest downsizing the Tiff files to a 720x480 frame, then saving as a .jpeg or .bmp.  With Photoshop you can batch convert your files and they'll be ready for use in Premiere.

                                                       

                                                      Good Editing,

                                                      John G

                                                      • 24. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                        If you have not already done your PS Actions for Scaling the stills, this ARTICLE might be useful.

                                                         

                                                        Good luck,

                                                         

                                                        Hunt

                                                        • 25. Re: Mid-project upgrade from CS3 to CS5 causes major problems - Please Help!
                                                          hhansard Level 1

                                                          From memory, there were some good threads on project management under CS3 – not sure how long the forum archives, but a few searches would be a worthwhile investment.

                                                          From your last post (and my memory of CS3), you are looking at the right things.  Keep optimizing / reducing your CS3 project.

                                                          Remove all unnecessary assets.  Images should be optimized and minimized externally, then the final ready-to-use version imported to CS3.  Fps of project should match source. Scaling should be used sparingly.  There are many more.  Keep looking.