23 Replies Latest reply: Dec 23, 2010 11:14 AM by jcasephotog RSS

    What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21

    cma cma Community Member

      I still have the excellent Photoshop CS2 and bought a Canon EOS Rebel T2i. However, the raw files come up in Bridge without picture preview. The file is a CR2 file. When double-clicked, Photoshop 2 opens and gives error dialog:

      "Could not complete request because not right kind of document."

        I see that version 5.7 and 6.1 of Adobe Camera Raw Plug in are compatible with this camera. Can I use either plug in with Photoshop 2?

        • 1. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
          Noel Carboni Community Member

          No.

           

          Only one major release of Camera Raw is supported in each version of Photoshop:

           

          CS2 - Camera Raw 3.x

          CS3 - Camera Raw 4.x

          CS4 - Camera Raw 5.x

          CS5 - Camera Raw 6.x

           

          Adobe stops adding new cameras to the older Camera Raw when they release a new version of Photoshop (with a new version of Camera Raw), so without upgrading Photoshop you will not be able to just "open" your files.

           

          They, of course, want some of your money too, and clearly you have some since you bought a new camera.

           

          Adobe does provide, as a workaround, a free tool called the DNG Converter, which you can use to convert your CR2 files to DNG, then Photoshop CS2 should be able to open them.

           

          http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=106&platform=Windows

          http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=106&platform=Macintosh

           

          -Noel

          • 2. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
            cma cma Community Member

            Noel, thanks for the answer and the link. If I understand you  correctly, I should download Adobe DNG Converter and Camera Raw 3.7  update; then uninstall Adobe Camera Raw 3.7 (how do I do that?), and then  install Adobe DNG Converter and Camera Raw 3.7.

            But once I've done that, will Bridge recognize the files and how  will I edit the RAW files or will I have to edit the DNG files in  Photoshop?

                                                   Thanks, CMA

            • 3. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
              JimHess-OxQsWQ Community Member

              cma cma wrote:

               

              Noel, thanks for the answer and the link. If I understand you  correctly, I should download Adobe DNG Converter and Camera Raw 3.7  update; then uninstall Adobe Camera Raw 3.7 (how do I do that?), and then  install Adobe DNG Converter and Camera Raw 3.7.

              But once I've done that, will Bridge recognize the files and how  will I edit the RAW files or will I have to edit the DNG files in  Photoshop?

                                                     Thanks, CMA

              Actually, there is no need for you to uninstall Camera Raw 3.7.  All you need is the latest version of the DNG converter.  Make sure you look at the options and choose the appropriate compatibility option so that it will be compatible with your version of Camera Raw.  The DNG file still contains the raw image data, so it cannot be edited in Photoshop.  Once you have converted your images to DNG files you will be able to open them in Camera Raw 3.7, and you will have every feature that version has to offer.  3.7 is really outdated now, and you aren't going to get the full benefit of what you can do with your raw images.  But at least you will be able to edit them as DNG files, and will be able to do as much as that version was/is able to do.

              • 4. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                Noel Carboni Community Member

                I don't do this myself, as I just open my CR2 files directly with the latest Photoshop and I don't even use Bridge, but this is what I understand you'll have to do:

                 

                1.  Starting with your CR2 files, run the DNG converter.  It will translate the format of the data and put out one DNG file for every CR2 file.

                 

                2.  You should be able to "see" the DNG files in Bridge.

                 

                3.  You should be able to open the DNG files with Photoshop CS2's Camera Raw plug-in.  As mentioned above, you won't have all the gee whiz features of the latest Camera Raw, which is now 3 versions newer, but you will be able to open your images - and to be fair Photoshop CS2's Camera Raw wasn't bad.

                 

                Afficionados of the DNG format would tell you that doing the translation to DNG is a good thing anyway, as the CR2 format is proprietary, while DNG is an open standard.  This could mean something in the far future, when the CR2 files have grown so old as to be impossible to open with the newest converters.

                 

                -Noel

                • 5. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                  cma cma Community Member

                  Jim,

                  You and Noel have been very helpful but I'm still not sure what I need to us CR2 files.

                  "All you need is the latest version of the DNG converter."

                  Would that be "Adobe DNG Converter and Camera Raw 3.7 update" or "Adobe DNG Converter 6.3 update"?

                  I have Photoshop CS2 and Canon Rebel T21. That camera is covered only by two camera raw plug-ins (5.7 and 6.1).

                   

                  You seem to be saying not to uninstall the camara raw plug-in 3.7 and instal an additional program, though I'm not clear which additional program.

                  Then Noel gave a very useful workflow method:

                  1.  Starting with your CR2 files, run the DNG converter.  It will  translate the format of the data and put out one DNG file for every CR2  file.
                  2.  You should be able to "see" the DNG files in Bridge.
                  3.   You should be able to open the DNG files with Photoshop CS2's Camera  Raw plug-in.

                   

                  So reading between the lines in your and Noel's posts, I take it that I can install an additional program, open the CR2 files in that separate program, convert the CR2 files with the separate program to .dng and use Bridge and PS CS2 to edit the .dng files?

                    However, I won't have camera raw files, I'll have .dng files, so won't I lose most of the information I wanted, even if this process actually works?

                  • 6. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                    cma cma Community Member

                    Jim, you said "The DNG file still contains the raw image data, so it cannot be edited in Photoshop."  Did you mean that it can be edited in Photoshop?

                    • 7. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                      Noel Carboni Community Member
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                      cma cma wrote:


                      So reading between the lines in your and Noel's posts, I take it that I can install an additional program, open the CR2 files in that separate program, convert the CR2 files with the separate program to .dng and use Bridge and PS CS2 to edit the .dng files?

                        However, I won't have camera raw files, I'll have .dng files, so won't I lose most of the information I wanted, even if this process actually works?


                      You have it right.

                       

                      Install the DNG 6.3 update.  It's not really an "update" - it's the entire standalone program.

                       

                      It's easy to run, and you'll have BOTH the CR2 and DNG files when you're done, so you don't chance losing anything.  Keeping the original files and the format-translated files does double your storage, of course.

                       

                      Beyond retaining the original files, what are you worried about losing in the DNG translation?  I've just been experimenting with the latest DNG converter (6.3) and it retains absolutely everything the camera puts into the raw file as far as I can see.  I was even able to do some decent highlight recovery.

                       

                      -Noel

                      • 8. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                        JimHess-OxQsWQ Community Member

                        cma cma wrote:

                         

                        Jim, you said "The DNG file still contains the raw image data, so it cannot be edited in Photoshop."  Did you mean that it can be edited in Photoshop?

                        No, I meant exactly what I said.  Photoshop cannot/does not modify raw image data.  After you have made adjustments in Camera Raw and open the image in Photoshop, you are no longer working with the raw image data.  Yes, I know, the window title bar says it is the raw image, but that is just indicating where the image data came from.  When you save the image from Photoshop it has to be saved in a different file format (i.e. JPEG, TIFF, PSD) because Photoshop treats raw images as read only.  That is why I said it cannot be edited in Photoshop.

                        • 9. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                          JimHess-OxQsWQ Community Member

                          The DNG file format is simply a container that standardizes where the information is stored.  It contains all of the original raw image data.  Nothing is lost.  It's a good idea, however, to archive those original raw images.  Having said that, I think you will find that you can obtain identical results (literally) from either the original raw image or from the DNG file because the image data is the same in either case.

                          • 10. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                            cma cma Community Member

                            Jim,  now I'm really confused. For the last 3 years, I've been opening RAW files in Adobe Bridge then doing some editing there. Then I save the file and open it in PS, where I do further editing. My guess is that somewhow Bridge defaults to saving the file as a .psd file, which can be used by PS.

                            The saved file from Bridge has to be in a format that PS can use, but what format?

                            The implication of what you are saying is that the Camera Raw plug-in is part of Bridge but not part of PS?

                            • 11. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                              JimHess-OxQsWQ Community Member

                              Bridge is not a file editor.  You cannot make any changes to the image data in Bridge.  When you double-click on a raw image in Bridge it is opened in Camera Raw, and that is where the adjustments are made.  Camera Raw is a plug-in for Photoshop.  Depending on how you have set your preferences, Camera Raw can be called by first opening Photoshop and then opening Camera Raw.  Or, you can have Camera Raw called directly from Bridge without opening Photoshop first.  But by the time the image gets opened in Photoshop you are no longer working on the raw image data.  You are working on the converted pixels from the raw file, and that image has to be saved in a different format.  Photoshop cannot write to a raw file, either directly from the camera or DNG file.

                               

                              Bridge is sort of "powered" by the Camera Raw plug-in in that in order for you to see any raw image (native or DNG) you must have the Camera Raw plug-in installed correctly.  Without it you would not be able to see the files in Bridge.  But Bridge itself does not make any modifications to the image data.

                              • 12. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                cma cma Community Member

                                Jim, thanks for the education. I've learned more from you and Noel about what goes on under the hook in Bridge and PS than from all the books I've seen.

                                "Depending on how you have set your preferences, Camera Raw can be called  by first opening Photoshop and then opening Camera Raw."

                                Then why not do as Noel does and skip Bridge altogether? I wonder how how Noel does that.

                                  Still, what format file does PS use when I start editing in PS?

                                • 13. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                  JimHess-OxQsWQ Community Member

                                  If you mentioned it, I have overlooked what operating system you are working under.  I use Windows.  It's possible to see the files in Windows Explorer.  And if you want to work that way, all you have to do is double click on a file (if you have your raw/DNG files associated with Photoshop) and Photoshop will start but as soon as it is loaded and realizes you have chosen a raw file it will start Camera Raw.  And that is where you make your adjustments to your raw images.

                                   

                                   

                                  I think the reason you have thought you were editing in Bridge is because if you have configured Camera Raw for full screen there is nothing to indicate that you are in Camera Raw.  But there is the little icon just to the left of the histogram that will toggle full screen on/off.  And if you go out of the full screen mode you will see at the top in the window bar that you are using Camera Raw.

                                   

                                   

                                  Personally, when I use Bridge/Photoshop, I like using Bridge because (in my opinion) it offers more viewing options than are available in Windows Explorer.  But then that is just my own personal preference.

                                   

                                   

                                  When a file has been transferred from Camera Raw to Photoshop it isn't in any file format.  The pixels have been converted and loaded into Photoshop memory.  When you go to save the file Photoshop will give you some choices, but I believe it defaults to PSD which is a Photoshop document.

                                  • 14. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                    cma cma Community Member

                                    Superb tutorial from Jim (and great job by Noel as well.) Thanks, guys.

                                    • 15. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                      Noel Carboni Community Member

                                      You're welcome.

                                       

                                      And I do use Explorer with a 3rd party codec to be able to see thumbnails of my raw files (it also shows DNG thumbnails).  I don't do just image work with my system (I develop software as well) and I just find it more convenient to use Explorer as the master integrator.  When I want to work on an image I just open it in Photoshop (e.g., via Camera Raw).

                                       

                                      -Noel

                                      • 16. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                        cma cma Community Member

                                        Noel, what setting do you use in PS so that opening a CR2 file will open it in camera raw in PS?

                                        Let me expand the question. Based on this discussion, I have decided to upgrade today from PS CS2 ot PS CS5. Should I leave PS CS2 on the system after installing PS CS5?

                                        Also, are there any recommended Preferences or settings, in addition to the one for camera raw, that I should set in PS CS5?

                                                                             Thanks, CMA

                                        • 17. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                          Noel Carboni Community Member

                                          Congratulations on your decision to move up to Photoshop CS5.  It's a good product.

                                           

                                          I'm not sure exactly what you mean by your question, though...

                                           

                                          In my own case, I have .CR2 files associated with a program called Irfan View so that when I double click a .CR2 file it opens immediately in this very fast image viewer program.  All .CR2 files have embedded JPEG previews, and I can view these embedded JPEGs from my raw files instantaneously with Irfan View.

                                           

                                          While using Explorer, if I want to open an image file with Photoshop (i.e., to do an actual raw conversion), I either drag the file and drop it on a desktop Photoshop icon -or- I right-click the file and choose Open With - Adobe Photoshop CS5.

                                           

                                          Multiple versions of Photoshop will live happily side by side on the same system.  You just can only run one of them at a time.

                                           

                                          Most folks recommend leaving older versions of Photoshop installed.  This allows you access to the version you're familiar with so that you can go back and check settings, save actions, etc. and it does provide you a backup editor if something should go wrong with the new one.

                                           

                                          Assuming you have the disk space, you never really need to uninstall an older version of Photoshop, and in fact uninstalling Photoshop after installing a newer version is reported to cause problems in some cases.

                                           

                                          -Noel

                                          • 18. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                            Curt Y Community Member

                                             

                                            Assuming you have the disk space, you never really need to uninstall an older version of Photoshop, and in fact uninstalling Photoshop after installing a newer version is reported to cause problems in some cases.

                                             

                                            Just to emphasize the above statement by Noel.  A number of users experience file association problems when uninstalling an older version of PS.  The file associations of CS5 reverts back to the uninstalled older version.  Very annoying.  So if you absolutely do not want CS2 on your computer uninstall it before you install CS5.

                                             

                                            Also, CS5 takes a lot more resources than CS2 so make sure your video card and computer are adequate.  It works fine in 32 bit mode, but the extra memory of a 64 bit system really makes it work a lot better especially if you have large projects.

                                            • 19. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                              jcasephotog Community Member

                                              I do not in any means want to hijack this thread... but I too am having similar issues. I recently purchased a Canon 60D and am using CS3. Here's the problem... I was "test driving" a Canon 7D and those RAW files converted fine. Now with my 60D the files are not converting! Any thoughts?

                                               

                                              jcase

                                              • 20. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                                Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                I question your statement that you were able to open a Canon 7D raw file with Photoshop CS3.  It is not listed in the supported cameras list for Camera Raw 4.6.  Are you sure it was CS3?

                                                 

                                                Look in the Camera Raw release notes to see specifically what cameras are supported by a particular version.

                                                 

                                                The release notes can be viewed by going into each of the Camera Raw download pages.  Those pages are accessible through one of the links I listed above.  Look for links to the release notes similar to Camera Raw 4.6 ReadMe.

                                                 

                                                Also note my other comments about how Adobe supports new cameras in released versions.

                                                 

                                                -Noel

                                                • 21. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                                  jcasephotog Community Member

                                                  I did not open the raw files in CS3, but with the DNG converter, sorry for not making this clear. When I tried using the same converter with the 60d's raw files it would not work, now I am at a lose.

                                                  • 22. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                                    Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                    You'll need to get the latest update of the DNG converter (6.3), that's all.

                                                     

                                                    See the links I posted above.

                                                     

                                                    -Noel

                                                    • 23. Re: What camera raw plugin for Photoshop CS2 + Canon Rebel T21
                                                      jcasephotog Community Member

                                                      AAAAHHHHH! I tried doing that earlier and it did not work! But now it does!

                                                      So.... Thank you very much for all the help... now to enjoy my new camera!

                                                       

                                                      Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas!

                                                       

                                                      jcase