22 Replies Latest reply on Jul 11, 2007 9:45 AM by Newsgroup_User

    Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...

    Level 7
      http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test.png

      This is a sample file containing 2 slices and 3 frames. Each slice belongs
      to only 1 frame. Slice "top" is assigned to frame 1, slice "bottom" - to
      frame 2. I would expect only two files when exporting: top.jpg and
      bottom_f2.jpg. Unfortunatelly 6 files are produced (2 slices x 3 frames = 6
      files): top.jpg, top_f2.jpg,
      top_f3.jpg, bottom.jpg, bottom_f2.jpg and bottom_f3.jpg. My intention is to
      get only selected frames for each slice. Now sometimes 80% produced files by
      Fireworks is just a waste in typical project what forces designers to browse
      over the tenths or hundreds unneeded files.

      This bug appeared with version 8 of Fireworks and seems to be continued.

      Maybe somebody knows how to avoid this problem under CS3? In previous
      versions it was not possible.

      Regards,
      Marek


        • 1. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
          Level 7
          Hi Marek:

          Slices cannot be assigned to frames, only to pages. So if you have three
          frames, FW expects to export the sliced areas of each frame. You can
          export each frame independently, but then you will have to manually name
          some of your frames, or FW will over write the first set of slices with
          the content from the next frame. If you think of frames as an
          animation/rollover tool, this makes sense. And indeed, this was the
          original purpose of frames in FW.

          To avoid the extra export, move the object that is in frame 3 to a layer
          and either position it so it does not overlap your sliced objects, or
          turn off visibility for the layer. Delete the third frame.

          In CS3, you could also create separate pages to resolve the issue, as
          each page has its own web layer. That may be overkill for the example
          supplied, but for more complex designs, it could be quite helpful.

          --
          Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
          Extending Knowledge, Daily
          http://www.communityMX.com/
          CommunityMX - Free Resources:
          http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
          ---
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          Marek wrote:
          > http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test.png
          >
          > This is a sample file containing 2 slices and 3 frames. Each slice belongs
          > to only 1 frame. Slice "top" is assigned to frame 1, slice "bottom" - to
          > frame 2. I would expect only two files when exporting: top.jpg and
          > bottom_f2.jpg. Unfortunatelly 6 files are produced (2 slices x 3 frames = 6
          > files): top.jpg, top_f2.jpg,
          > top_f3.jpg, bottom.jpg, bottom_f2.jpg and bottom_f3.jpg. My intention is to
          > get only selected frames for each slice. Now sometimes 80% produced files by
          > Fireworks is just a waste in typical project what forces designers to browse
          > over the tenths or hundreds unneeded files.
          >
          > This bug appeared with version 8 of Fireworks and seems to be continued.
          >
          > Maybe somebody knows how to avoid this problem under CS3? In previous
          > versions it was not possible.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Marek
          >
          >
          • 2. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
            Level 7
            Hi Jim,

            > In CS3, you could also create separate pages to resolve the issue, as each
            > page has its own web layer. That may be overkill for the example supplied,
            > but for more complex designs, it could be quite helpful.

            Of course given example only illustrates problem. I'm not sure that pages in
            CS3 are the solution - or I can't guess your intentions. I should now
            explain typical task which I encounter very often. Well, site layout usually
            base on a couple of layers. If we limit our discussion to creatin graphic
            background of web site - I can't any inconvenience. Unfortunatelly modern
            web site usually contains graphic symbols in different variants representing
            states of applicaton element. For example: the document can have inner
            pages. I would like to create a couple of similar graphic symbols
            representing e.g. 3 page states: page allowed to read, currently read page
            and page disabled to read. The logical steps are:
            1. create page graphic symbol (rectangle) on shared layer
            2. on non-shared layer in frame 1 we can create eye over the page symbol to
            represent page allowed to read
            3. on non-shared layer in frame 2 we can create cross symbol over the page
            symbol to represent page disabledto read

            4. on non-shared layer in frame 3 we can create OK symbol over the page
            symbol to represent page currently opened
            5. now we can create only one slice named 'document' which overlaps page
            symbol with items from point 2, 3 and 4
            6. when file is exported we will get 3 files: document_xx.jpg representing
            all states of the page

            This is ok only for that slice. Unfortunatelly the same project contains a
            lot of another slices which contain background of the web site. Generated
            graphics for that kind of slices shoud represent only frame 1 content. Take
            into consideration that one project can have many symbols, each with
            different number of variants ( = frames? ). Then how to create such a
            projects under FW CS3? Should I base on one frame with a lot of slices - one
            per symbol variant?


            • 3. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
              Level 7
              Hi Marek:

              All I have to go on, visually, is the sample you uploaded, so
              referring to that, use one slice for the entire shape, rather than two.
              You will get three exported images in this manner.

              Another point to keep in mind is that the original goal of slices was
              the cut up graphics for insertion into an html table. So if you have
              three frames, and two slices, you will naturally get 6 exported files.

              A more detailed visual example of your problem might be helpful, too.
              Also as I mentioned before, button symbols may be useful. ANd the new
              Rich Symbols offer potential as well.

              --
              Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
              Extending Knowledge, Daily
              http://www.communityMX.com/
              CommunityMX - Free Resources:
              http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
              ---
              .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
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              news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver

              Marek wrote:
              > Hi Jim,
              >
              >> In CS3, you could also create separate pages to resolve the issue, as each
              >> page has its own web layer. That may be overkill for the example supplied,
              >> but for more complex designs, it could be quite helpful.
              >
              > Of course given example only illustrates problem. I'm not sure that pages in
              > CS3 are the solution - or I can't guess your intentions. I should now
              > explain typical task which I encounter very often. Well, site layout usually
              > base on a couple of layers. If we limit our discussion to creatin graphic
              > background of web site - I can't any inconvenience. Unfortunatelly modern
              > web site usually contains graphic symbols in different variants representing
              > states of applicaton element. For example: the document can have inner
              > pages. I would like to create a couple of similar graphic symbols
              > representing e.g. 3 page states: page allowed to read, currently read page
              > and page disabled to read. The logical steps are:
              > 1. create page graphic symbol (rectangle) on shared layer
              > 2. on non-shared layer in frame 1 we can create eye over the page symbol to
              > represent page allowed to read
              > 3. on non-shared layer in frame 2 we can create cross symbol over the page
              > symbol to represent page disabledto read
              >
              > 4. on non-shared layer in frame 3 we can create OK symbol over the page
              > symbol to represent page currently opened
              > 5. now we can create only one slice named 'document' which overlaps page
              > symbol with items from point 2, 3 and 4
              > 6. when file is exported we will get 3 files: document_xx.jpg representing
              > all states of the page
              >
              > This is ok only for that slice. Unfortunatelly the same project contains a
              > lot of another slices which contain background of the web site. Generated
              > graphics for that kind of slices shoud represent only frame 1 content. Take
              > into consideration that one project can have many symbols, each with
              > different number of variants ( = frames? ). Then how to create such a
              > projects under FW CS3? Should I base on one frame with a lot of slices - one
              > per symbol variant?
              >
              >
              • 4. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                Level 7
                Hi Jim again,

                > A more detailed visual example of your problem might be helpful, too. Also
                > as I mentioned before, button symbols may be useful. ANd the new Rich
                > Symbols offer potential as well.


                Here is another example what I meant:
                http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test2.png

                This example shows typical web site project where we have defined general
                layout to place in table or CSS styles and one 5-states icon to use
                somewhere in the web site content. I would like to obtain one header file,
                one background file, one footer file and 5 files with indyvidual icon
                states. I have no idea how to achieve this simple and typical task using
                techniques you have mentioned. I could use button symbol but only for 4
                states. Please give me some details about procedure to proper use of FW for
                this task. Thanks for your help in advance.


                • 5. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                  Level 7
                  Marek wrote:
                  > Hi Jim again,
                  >
                  >> A more detailed visual example of your problem might be helpful, too. Also
                  >> as I mentioned before, button symbols may be useful. ANd the new Rich
                  >> Symbols offer potential as well.
                  >
                  >
                  > Here is another example what I meant:
                  > http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test2.png
                  >
                  > This example shows typical web site project where we have defined general
                  > layout to place in table or CSS styles and one 5-states icon to use
                  > somewhere in the web site content. I would like to obtain one header file,
                  > one background file, one footer file and 5 files with indyvidual icon
                  > states. I have no idea how to achieve this simple and typical task using
                  > techniques you have mentioned. I could use button symbol but only for 4
                  > states. Please give me some details about procedure to proper use of FW for
                  > this task. Thanks for your help in advance.
                  >
                  >

                  I'm looking at the file but my first question is why would you need 5
                  states? I must be missing something.

                  --
                  Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                  Extending Knowledge, Daily
                  http://www.communityMX.com/
                  CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                  http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                  ---
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                  • 6. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                    Level 7
                    OK, using pages, I was able to produce exactly what you requested.
                    Page one held the content and slices for the header, footer and
                    background. using a single frame.

                    Frame 2 held a single slice with 5 frames for your icon states. I'm
                    posting the link to my PNG file here:
                    http://www.newmediaservices.ca/jim_babbage/test2/jb_test2.png

                    This took less than 5 minutes to adjust in FW.

                    HTH

                    --
                    Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                    Extending Knowledge, Daily
                    http://www.communityMX.com/
                    CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                    http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                    ---
                    .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
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                    Jim Babbage .:CMX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:. wrote:
                    > Marek wrote:
                    >> Hi Jim again,
                    >>
                    >>> A more detailed visual example of your problem might be helpful, too.
                    >>> Also as I mentioned before, button symbols may be useful. ANd the new
                    >>> Rich Symbols offer potential as well.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Here is another example what I meant:
                    >> http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test2.png
                    >>
                    >> This example shows typical web site project where we have defined
                    >> general layout to place in table or CSS styles and one 5-states icon
                    >> to use somewhere in the web site content. I would like to obtain one
                    >> header file, one background file, one footer file and 5 files with
                    >> indyvidual icon states. I have no idea how to achieve this simple and
                    >> typical task using techniques you have mentioned. I could use button
                    >> symbol but only for 4 states. Please give me some details about
                    >> procedure to proper use of FW for this task. Thanks for your help in
                    >> advance.
                    >>
                    >
                    > I'm looking at the file but my first question is why would you need 5
                    > states? I must be missing something.
                    >
                    • 7. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                      Level 7
                      >I'm looking at the file but my first question is why would you need 5
                      >states? I must be missing something.

                      No, no, everything OK. Number of states is unpredictable I have just
                      randomly decided that I need 5 states. Sometimes I will need 1 state,
                      sometimes - 10. It's depends on particular project.

                      > Frame 2 held a single slice with 5 frames for your icon states. I'm
                      > posting the link to my PNG file here:
                      > http://www.newmediaservices.ca/jim_babbage/test2/jb_test2.png
                      >
                      > This took less than 5 minutes to adjust in FW.

                      Ahhhh ... I can see now what you have ment. Each multiframe symbol will be
                      placed on separate page? That is solution to my problem. Thanks a lot. On
                      the other hand I don't understand why I can't decide which frames will be
                      exported for particular slice as it was possible in FW MX. It could make the
                      job simplify.You must agree with me that placing multiframe icons in
                      separate page each is just a bypass, not solution. Sometimes I have to
                      create 10-20 icons with different and changable number of frames each - so I
                      must create 10-20 pages in project...


                      • 8. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                        Level 7
                        Marek wrote:
                        >> I'm looking at the file but my first question is why would you need 5
                        >> states? I must be missing something.
                        >
                        > No, no, everything OK. Number of states is unpredictable I have just
                        > randomly decided that I need 5 states. Sometimes I will need 1 state,
                        > sometimes - 10. It's depends on particular project.
                        >
                        >> Frame 2 held a single slice with 5 frames for your icon states. I'm
                        >> posting the link to my PNG file here:
                        >> http://www.newmediaservices.ca/jim_babbage/test2/jb_test2.png
                        >>
                        >> This took less than 5 minutes to adjust in FW.
                        >
                        > Ahhhh ... I can see now what you have ment. Each multiframe symbol will be
                        > placed on separate page? That is solution to my problem. Thanks a lot. On
                        > the other hand I don't understand why I can't decide which frames will be
                        > exported for particular slice as it was possible in FW MX. It could make the
                        > job simplify.You must agree with me that placing multiframe icons in
                        > separate page each is just a bypass, not solution. Sometimes I have to
                        > create 10-20 icons with different and changable number of frames each - so I
                        > must create 10-20 pages in project...
                        >
                        >

                        No you can put all the multiframe elements on the same page (assuming
                        they all have the same number of frames) and you will get the correct
                        number of exports. Again, I can only work with what you supply. If you
                        want a solution to a more complex problem, you should supply a suitable
                        example.

                        FW MX is now three versions old and I honestly cannot remember the
                        workflow from that version, so I can't help you there. As far as I can
                        remember though, slices (other than overlapping slices) have always
                        worked the same way, and I've been working with FW since version 1.2.

                        Your other option is to select a slice and choose to export the selected
                        slice only.

                        --
                        Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                        Extending Knowledge, Daily
                        http://www.communityMX.com/
                        CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                        http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                        ---
                        .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
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                        • 9. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                          Level 7
                          Ok, Jim, here is another example showing more complex and more real aspect
                          of web site designing.

                          http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test3.png

                          > No you can put all the multiframe elements on the same page (assuming they
                          > all have the same number of frames) and you will get the correct number of
                          > exports.

                          I have added another icon to the page which you created before. Second icon
                          consist of 2 states (so I need only 2 frames to represent it) It is not
                          possible to assume that every icon in the project will consist of the same
                          number of frames because many projects are still alive. That is the reason
                          why I mentioned that using your advice We will need separate pages for each
                          icon.

                          > Again, I can only work with what you supply. If you want a solution to a
                          > more complex problem, you should supply a suitable example.

                          Ok, you are right. :-) I just wanted to illustrate the problem as simple as
                          possible to be fully understood. It seems that I exaggerated with
                          simplification.

                          > FW MX is now three versions old and I honestly cannot remember the
                          > workflow from that version, so I can't help you there. As far as I can
                          > remember though, slices (other than overlapping slices) have always worked
                          > the same way, and I've been working with FW since version 1.2.

                          I'm not sure what the way I chose (most likely I used behaviours to limit
                          number of exported frames - unfortunately, in recent versions of FW it have
                          no influence on export) but I am sure that I could limit exported files to
                          desired number of frames - separate to each slice. I have never get unneeded
                          files before version MX. The same PNG files used in next versions of FW
                          export much more files.

                          > Your other option is to select a slice and choose to export the selected
                          > slice only.

                          Can I determine on slice level how many frames will be exported for the
                          selected slice export?


                          • 10. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                            Level 7
                            Marek wrote:
                            > Ok, Jim, here is another example showing more complex and more real aspect
                            > of web site designing.
                            >
                            > http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test3.png
                            >
                            >> No you can put all the multiframe elements on the same page (assuming they
                            >> all have the same number of frames) and you will get the correct number of
                            >> exports.
                            >
                            > I have added another icon to the page which you created before. Second icon
                            > consist of 2 states (so I need only 2 frames to represent it) It is not
                            > possible to assume that every icon in the project will consist of the same
                            > number of frames because many projects are still alive. That is the reason
                            > why I mentioned that using your advice We will need separate pages for each
                            > icon.
                            >
                            >> Again, I can only work with what you supply. If you want a solution to a
                            >> more complex problem, you should supply a suitable example.
                            >
                            > Ok, you are right. :-) I just wanted to illustrate the problem as simple as
                            > possible to be fully understood. It seems that I exaggerated with
                            > simplification.
                            >
                            >> FW MX is now three versions old and I honestly cannot remember the
                            >> workflow from that version, so I can't help you there. As far as I can
                            >> remember though, slices (other than overlapping slices) have always worked
                            >> the same way, and I've been working with FW since version 1.2.
                            >
                            > I'm not sure what the way I chose (most likely I used behaviours to limit
                            > number of exported frames - unfortunately, in recent versions of FW it have
                            > no influence on export) but I am sure that I could limit exported files to
                            > desired number of frames - separate to each slice. I have never get unneeded
                            > files before version MX. The same PNG files used in next versions of FW
                            > export much more files.
                            >
                            >> Your other option is to select a slice and choose to export the selected
                            >> slice only.
                            >
                            > Can I determine on slice level how many frames will be exported for the
                            > selected slice export?
                            >
                            >
                            Until you can supply a true design where this issue occurs, I can't
                            help any further. This is not a real world example. I really do not
                            understand why ONE icon would have 5 states/frames and another one only
                            two. They're the same icon with the same dimensions - put them on frames
                            6 and 7, using the same slice.

                            --
                            Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                            Extending Knowledge, Daily
                            http://www.communityMX.com/
                            CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                            http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                            ---
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                            • 11. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                              Level 7
                              > Until you can supply a true design where this issue occurs, I can't help
                              > any further.

                              Ok, I will find real project tomorrow. Now is very late night here and I
                              fill tired.

                              > This is not a real world example. I really do not understand why ONE icon
                              > would have 5 states/frames and another one only two.

                              This is because different icons have different application. One icon can be
                              a simple rollover (2 frames), another can used to reflect document state (5
                              frames), another icon may be used as e.g. panel header (separte for news,
                              product top 10, best sellers 10 - 3 frames). For the last case it is
                              convenient to create general panel layout on shared layer and keep its
                              header variants in non-shared layer in different frames. It is obvious that
                              we cant't assume that each icon above will have the same number of frames to
                              represent all needed states. Moreover, number of states of particular icon
                              can increase on customer wish of new e.g. panels. We will be forced then to
                              create new headers for those panels as content of newly added frames.

                              If my explanation is not clear for you, I will find adequate real project.


                              • 12. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                Level 7
                                Hi Marek:

                                A real project where you are experiencing the problems is going to be
                                much more helpful. I can probably solve all those issues you mentioned
                                in this post, but they may not re relevant solutions to your workflow.

                                --
                                Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                Extending Knowledge, Daily
                                http://www.communityMX.com/
                                CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                                http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                                ---
                                .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
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                                news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver

                                Marek wrote:
                                >> Until you can supply a true design where this issue occurs, I can't help
                                >> any further.
                                >
                                > Ok, I will find real project tomorrow. Now is very late night here and I
                                > fill tired.
                                >
                                >> This is not a real world example. I really do not understand why ONE icon
                                >> would have 5 states/frames and another one only two.
                                >
                                > This is because different icons have different application. One icon can be
                                > a simple rollover (2 frames), another can used to reflect document state (5
                                > frames), another icon may be used as e.g. panel header (separte for news,
                                > product top 10, best sellers 10 - 3 frames). For the last case it is
                                > convenient to create general panel layout on shared layer and keep its
                                > header variants in non-shared layer in different frames. It is obvious that
                                > we cant't assume that each icon above will have the same number of frames to
                                > represent all needed states. Moreover, number of states of particular icon
                                > can increase on customer wish of new e.g. panels. We will be forced then to
                                > create new headers for those panels as content of newly added frames.
                                >
                                > If my explanation is not clear for you, I will find adequate real project.
                                >
                                >
                                • 13. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                  Level 7
                                  Hi Jim,

                                  Take a look on http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test4.png

                                  Here is the real project. Couple of frames reflect mentoned problem. For
                                  example: the frame 'icnCart' need only 2 states (frame 1 and frame 2). Slice
                                  'panel2Title' needs 4 frames to be exported for now and I can predict need
                                  of the next states for this slice in the future. Slices p0, p1, p2 and many
                                  others need only one frame. When project is exported, a lot of unneeded
                                  files is crated.


                                  • 14. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                    Level 7
                                    Definitively the kind of project that would be candidate for breaking it
                                    up into smaller logical files.
                                    header.png, menu.png ...etc, - for example

                                    Marek wrote:
                                    > Hi Jim,
                                    >
                                    > Take a look on http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test4.png
                                    >
                                    > Here is the real project. Couple of frames reflect mentoned problem. For
                                    > example: the frame 'icnCart' need only 2 states (frame 1 and frame 2). Slice
                                    > 'panel2Title' needs 4 frames to be exported for now and I can predict need
                                    > of the next states for this slice in the future. Slices p0, p1, p2 and many
                                    > others need only one frame. When project is exported, a lot of unneeded
                                    > files is crated.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    • 15. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                      Level 7
                                      Marek wrote:
                                      > Hi Jim,
                                      >
                                      > Take a look on http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test4.png
                                      >
                                      > Here is the real project. Couple of frames reflect mentoned problem. For
                                      > example: the frame 'icnCart' need only 2 states (frame 1 and frame 2). Slice
                                      > 'panel2Title' needs 4 frames to be exported for now and I can predict need
                                      > of the next states for this slice in the future. Slices p0, p1, p2 and many
                                      > others need only one frame. When project is exported, a lot of unneeded
                                      > files is crated.
                                      >
                                      >

                                      Thanks Marek, I will have a look.

                                      --
                                      Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                      Extending Knowledge, Daily
                                      http://www.communityMX.com/
                                      CommunityMX - Free Resources:
                                      http://www.communitymx.com/free.cfm
                                      ---
                                      .:Adobe Community Expert for Fireworks:.
                                      news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.fireworks
                                      news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver
                                      • 16. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                        Level 7
                                        Alex Mariño wrote:
                                        > Definitively the kind of project that would be candidate for breaking it
                                        > up into smaller logical files.
                                        > header.png, menu.png ...etc, - for example
                                        >
                                        > Marek wrote:
                                        >> Hi Jim,
                                        >>
                                        >> Take a look on http://fireworks.eu.interia.pl/test4.png
                                        >>
                                        >> Here is the real project. Couple of frames reflect mentoned problem.
                                        >> For example: the frame 'icnCart' need only 2 states (frame 1 and frame
                                        >> 2). Slice 'panel2Title' needs 4 frames to be exported for now and I
                                        >> can predict need of the next states for this slice in the future.
                                        >> Slices p0, p1, p2 and many others need only one frame. When project is
                                        >> exported, a lot of unneeded files is crated.
                                        >>

                                        As I go through the file, rather than multiple PNGs, I see this as a
                                        perfect example of where pages could really shine. While it would be
                                        tedious to reverse engineer this sample, I see a master page containing
                                        common elements such as the background texture, a page for all the four
                                        state elements and a page for the two state elements and 1 for the
                                        single frame elements. Pages give you so much more flexibility
                                        especially with your complex designs.

                                        I think it's a question of more logical grouping of elements - no
                                        offense intended Marek. I think the design itself is great, but as an
                                        example, using layers and sub layers might be more logical for your
                                        panels, where you have the panels and then the gadgets on separate
                                        layers. You could structure this differently and perhaps make it easier
                                        to follow.

                                        However, that's not what we're here for. Multiple pages with their own
                                        independent slice layers would solve all your nightmare issues and - if
                                        you needed to add two more states to your four state slices, it would be
                                        easy to add those frames and export just what you want if you make use
                                        of pages. And if it was only one object that was being made into six
                                        states, it's easy enough to create a duplicate page, add the frames you
                                        need on the new page and then delete the old object from the original page.

                                        You can export page slices on page at a time, so you're not having to
                                        export EVERYTHING each time you make a change to the design.

                                        Is this making sense? Do you see where I'm going with this?

                                        --
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                                        • 17. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                          Level 7
                                          > Is this making sense? Do you see where I'm going with this?

                                          Yes Jim - it makes sense. Following your way I have to create a couple of
                                          additional pages. Master page keeps common layout (single frame), additional
                                          pages contain groupped 2, 3 ... N - frame elements of design adequately.
                                          When page e.g. number 3 is exported then I obtain all 3-states elements. If
                                          element becomes 4-state then I will have to move it into page 4 (containing
                                          4 frames) and create new state in last frame.

                                          I think that this is temporarily good solution. If you are able to contact
                                          to software engeneers you could suggest them to add simple functionality to
                                          FW. It would be great to be able to select active frames per each slice
                                          separately. Inactive slices could be ommited during exporting process.
                                          Activation of frames exists by now but has no influence on what frames are
                                          exported. So this functionality could be very fast to implementation.

                                          I already submited this issue during version MX of FW to the engeneers but
                                          most likely my arguments were too weak to be taken into consideration.


                                          • 18. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                            Level 7
                                            Marek wrote:
                                            >> Is this making sense? Do you see where I'm going with this?
                                            >
                                            > Yes Jim - it makes sense. Following your way I have to create a couple of
                                            > additional pages. Master page keeps common layout (single frame), additional
                                            > pages contain groupped 2, 3 ... N - frame elements of design adequately.
                                            > When page e.g. number 3 is exported then I obtain all 3-states elements. If
                                            > element becomes 4-state then I will have to move it into page 4 (containing
                                            > 4 frames) and create new state in last frame.
                                            >
                                            > I think that this is temporarily good solution. If you are able to contact
                                            > to software engeneers you could suggest them to add simple functionality to
                                            > FW. It would be great to be able to select active frames per each slice
                                            > separately. Inactive slices could be ommited during exporting process.
                                            > Activation of frames exists by now but has no influence on what frames are
                                            > exported. So this functionality could be very fast to implementation.
                                            >
                                            > I already submited this issue during version MX of FW to the engeneers but
                                            > most likely my arguments were too weak to be taken into consideration.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            Hi Marek.

                                            I don't see this as a temporary solution, so I have to disagree. Here's
                                            a question; in designs such as the example provided, how do you remember
                                            which slices have x-number of frames? Being handed the PNG, how does
                                            another designer learn what is what?

                                            I can answer the second question; I had to go through every frame,
                                            multiple times, to see what changed and where. And some of those changes
                                            were very small. Then I had to try to remember those changes (no easy
                                            feat for me).

                                            With pages, you can simplify the process for you (if you are returning
                                            to a design weeks or months later) and for other designers because you
                                            can structure the design by page, layer sublayer and frames.

                                            Even if you could make certain slices active or inactive, that won't
                                            changed the fact that - on a single web layer architecture - a specific
                                            layer has 5 frames ( or 2 or 7).

                                            For your purposes, if you do not wish to use pages, I would make use of
                                            button symbols, because THOSE frames are independent of the main web
                                            layer. I think that is why the button editor was created; it gets you
                                            out of the problem you are currently running into. Pages is the new way
                                            of doing things, but the button editor still works if you prefer not to
                                            use pages.

                                            We may just have to agree to disagree on this one. :-)

                                            --
                                            Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                            Extending Knowledge, Daily
                                            http://www.communityMX.com/
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                                            • 19. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                              Level 7
                                              Hi Jim again :-)

                                              > I don't see this as a temporary solution, so I have to disagree. Here's a
                                              > question; in designs such as the example provided, how do you remember
                                              > which slices have x-number of frames? Being handed the PNG, how does
                                              > another designer learn what is what?

                                              This issue doesn't exists in my opinion. We don't have to remember how many
                                              frames belongs to the slice. For example: if my customer need next header to
                                              particular panel I'm just telling that to designer even if he has never seen
                                              this PNG file before. His job is very simple: he must find the last occupied
                                              frame for this slice and create new graphics in new frame or if number of
                                              frames is sufficient, he can use next empty frame. He doesn't have to thik
                                              about it. Of couurse, this new frame must be activated to enable it for
                                              exporting (regarding to my new feature request).

                                              > I can answer the second question; I had to go through every frame,
                                              > multiple times, to see what changed and where. And some of those changes
                                              > were very small. Then I had to try to remember those changes (no easy feat
                                              > for me).

                                              Why do you have to traverse the project? Every slice has the same total
                                              number of frames but only some of them is occupied. As I mentioned above, if
                                              we need to add next state to icon, we can do that in first empty frame for
                                              the icon slice (and activate it for exporting).

                                              > With pages, you can simplify the process for you (if you are returning to
                                              > a design weeks or months later) and for other designers because you can
                                              > structure the design by page, layer sublayer and frames.

                                              Yes, I agree with you but here are two inconveniences.
                                              1. To avoid exporting unneeded frames you must keep number of frames on page
                                              equal to icon states. If you have more then one icon per page and only one
                                              increases number of states, you must move it to another page which contains
                                              required number of frames.
                                              2. If you decide to keep only one icon per page keeping in mind that every
                                              of them can obtain next states in the future, you wili get a lot of pages in
                                              this way. Typical number of icons in project is 20-30.

                                              In my opinion is better usage of page structure to separate general layout
                                              from icons. If number of icons is huge then we can use next pages to spread
                                              icons over pages. In this solution you coul'd don't have to remember how
                                              many frames is created for particular page and migrate with icons among
                                              pages when number of states changes. Of course it is true if we assume
                                              requested functionality.

                                              > Even if you could make certain slices active or inactive, that won't
                                              > changed the fact that - on a single web layer architecture - a specific
                                              > layer has 5 frames ( or 2 or 7).

                                              To be precise: saying 'single layer architecture' you mean that all layers
                                              have the same number of frames on the page (common setting) or suggest that
                                              project is kept on single layer? You have seen my project so I can assume
                                              that this first interpretation is true.

                                              If I decide to add a new frame I should be able to activate/deactivate it by
                                              one click. I can imagine that I could select all slices or some slices and
                                              change its settings for each frame in the frame manager. In this solution I
                                              could have as many frames as I want and avoid exporting 'rubbish' files. Do
                                              you agree with me? :-)

                                              > For your purposes, if you do not wish to use pages,

                                              I can use them! I don't have allergy to pages! :-) Mentined project was
                                              created in version 8 of FW so that is the reason why I havn't used it.
                                              Anyway, the pages seems to be difficult to use as solution to my problem of
                                              avoiding 'rubbish' files. Justification mentioned above.

                                              >I would make use of button symbols, because THOSE frames are independent of
                                              >the main web layer.

                                              You are reading in my mind! Sometimes I use them but only if I'm sure that
                                              number of needed frames will ALWAYS between 2 and 4. Unfortunately I can't
                                              make this assumption for panel headers as you have seen.

                                              > I think that is why the button editor was created; it gets you out of the
                                              > problem you are currently running into. Pages is the new way of doing
                                              > things, but the button editor still works if you prefer not to use pages.

                                              I can guarantee that I love pages :-)))

                                              >
                                              > We may just have to agree to disagree on this one. :-)



                                              • 20. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                                Level 7

                                                Hi Marek:

                                                If you have a system that works for you, then I'm not going to try and
                                                change your mind. If the solutions I've suggested aren't suitable for
                                                your workflow, perhaps someone else has a better idea.


                                                --
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                                                Extending Knowledge, Daily
                                                http://www.communityMX.com/
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                                                • 21. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                                  Level 7
                                                  Ok, thanks Jim for your advice and a lot of suggestions :-)


                                                  • 22. Re: Problem with exporting slices under FW CS3...
                                                    Level 7
                                                    Marek wrote:
                                                    > Ok, thanks Jim for your advice and a lot of suggestions :-)
                                                    >
                                                    >

                                                    You are quite welcome.

                                                    --
                                                    Jim Babbage - .:Community MX:. & .:Adobe Community Expert:.
                                                    Extending Knowledge, Daily
                                                    http://www.communityMX.com/
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