So, you are saying i7 is not the problem?
(thanks for the links, checking them out now)
If there is any problem, which I doubt, then it must be in the combination of i7 and Dell, HP or other similar brand names.
HP and Dell are well known for their lacking BIOS, underrated PSU's, inability to overclock, vastly inflated prices, and a lot of other deficiencies.
There is nothing wrong with an i7 system, if properly configured, but this requires some expertise of the reseller, and IMO most of them are severely lacking the basic expertise and knowledge to build a video machine.The exceptions that do have the expertise, knowledge and service orientation for a successful NLE machine are rare. http://www.adkvideoediting.com/ is one of the very few companies that really know what they are talking about and they are miles apart from the nitwits at HP or Dell.
I don't know what alternative your reseller would advise, it could either be a dual Xeon 56xx at at least double the price, or it could be an underspecced i3/i5 totally unsuitable for editing. One thing is sure, he does not know about the requirements for NLE and how to achieve a decent system for an acceptable price.
No the I7 is not a problem. The problems most are running into have to do with the RAM, profiles stored on the ram and board, and the IC's that change so much now on the ram which is why mixing production runs cause issues. The I7 just made production more complicated because the memory controller is on the chip versus the board. So the I7 is fine. There are just some things you have to watch when you build and configure one
good words Harm,
if you stay in the USA, ADK is the way to go. I stay in South Africa and Eric sorted my machine in no time at all.
Apple- No surprise there; they weren't even the main target therefore it's likely less or even minimum testing was done while developing the processors.
For the other brands, it's probably the fact that most brands such as HP and Dell ship their computers with very weak PSUs, for instance I've seen an i7 HP Elite with a 250 watt power supply.
I think you'll find a good amount of the professionals who frequent these boards are using an i7 chip in their edit rigs.
Right now, the i7 950 is probably still one of the best bang-for-the-buck choices out there.
Thanks a lot for all replies!
@Harm Millaard - the reseller, strangely enough, did not suggest an alternative at all. I asked him myself (through e-mail) and have yet to receive an answer... Anyway, I checked out http://www.adkvideoediting.com/ as both you and John suggested, and I'm sorry to say (Eric) I currently don't have the budget for the better quality hardware/computer that ADK is selling. The price of an ADK-comp with similar (but better quality) specs is about 2x the price of an HP/DELL-model. This makes me prety sad, because it means that within my current budget ($1000-1500), it seems I can only get the crappy consumer-stuff...
@Sethi_Xzon - I contacted HP earlier and asked them about the PSU ("will it be adapted to the needs of changes due customizing the model"). They assured me they do that. Yet, I've been in contact with them several times with simple technical questions and did not get the idea they knew what they were talking about, most of the times.
Thanks again for all the info given (Eric, Darren and Jim as well!), appreciated.
For video editing, you might want to save up until you can afford a "real" video editing computer... not a mass market model from HP/Dell
But, I build my own, so it has been a LONG time since I had to deal with a mass market brand
The trouble is, my current computer is acting up ina bad way, forcing me to buy a new computer a.s.a.p. (unless I am able to get the computer running reliably again).
Here's what I might do with the money.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185 x 3 (Projects/Scratch, Media, Exports)
Total price, around $1600.
If you do decide to build your own, My CS5/AVCHD 1st Impressions http://forums.adobe.com/thread/652694?tstart=0 includes a link to the computer I built... since the GTX 285 is no longer sold, I would now go with a newer GTX card... maybe the 460
Thanks a lot Jim and John.
I would have liked to build my own system, but there are a couple of "buts".
1) I live on a small Caribbean island, and have to import everything. (Local computer stores are unreasonably expensive and do not carry a wide variety of products). Importing items from the US is always a hassle. Newegg.com (like most other online US shops) does not want customers with non-US-issued credit cards. Also, I spoke to someone in the US who had just build his own system, together with a friend, and he told me it was kind of essential or at least extremely handy to have a suitable, well priced computer store near by, when busy building your own system, so that if you need an additional part or a replacement for whatever reason, you don't have to wait at least a week for it to arrive.
2) I have no experience building my own computer and know no one who does (apart from the local computer stores, who are gonna want always too much money for assisting me.. small market, you know...). I have no problems with putting together the hardware, physically, as this is pretty streight forward, I suppose. (I just took out all hardware from my faulty computer and put it in another casing. Seating a processor and applying the grey conductor "flued" between the processor and its heatsink is not a problem either). But when it comes to the bios and other settings, I have no clue.
So, I'm not sure if the BIY-route is one for me, under the circumstances.
1) might be a problem. Living in the US, I've no idea what Newegg's out of country policies are. But there are also ZipZoomFly and Tiger Direct to consider, as well as others. If it's worth saving the money, there's got to be a way to make it work. Just do your research.
2) shouldn't be. Most settings you can leave at their default values and get things to work. The mobo manual should also have a detailed description of all the BIOS settings. The most critical part of a self-build is seating the CPU and fan. If you can do that with confidence, you're 90% of the way there.
@1) Checking out ZipZoomFly and Tiger Direct.
@2) What is supposed to be difficult about seating the CPU and fan?
I looked at your suggested hardware, and assume that those are all compatible with eachother, right? Because, that is another thing: I have no idea what hardware works well together and what doesn't. Should I go for self building after all, I probably want to change one or two things of your suggested list of hardware.
#2 is not really "difficult" other than the small pins on the CPU are very easy to bend if you do not get the CPU set correctly... I find it easy to do, but I am always VERY careful to look at the pin pattern and make sure I have the "blank corner" on the CPU underside put on the proper corner of the base
Then, when putting the heat transfer paste on the top of the CPU just follow the instructions so you get enough but not too much, and push/twist the fan pins on the 4 corners so they lock into place... you will VERY quickly know if you did not get a good heat sink to CPU contact, since the Bios of any modern motherboard will flash a warning and shut the system off if the CPU begins to overheat
The stock CPU cooler is OK if you are not going to overclock... but even though I do NOT overclock, I bought a better cooler to keep the CPU temp well below any danger levels (video editing and especially transcoding to go to disc is VERY intensive work for the CPU)
I'm not where I can see the entire message thread, so just ignore if I already posted the link to what I built... http://forums.adobe.com/thread/652694?tstart=0 includes a link to the computer I built... since the GTX 285 is no longer sold, I would now go with a current GTX model that is cooler and quieter and faster, like the GTX 460
Should I go for self building after all, I probably want to change one or two things of your suggested list of hardware.
Post up what you want to swap out. I'm sure someone here will have an opinion on it.
Well, first off, $1600 is above my budget. I'm thinking max $1500 (including transportation costs of probably around $150).
And, I'm not sure about the SPARKLE vid-card.
I figured nvidia might be a better quality brand?
Apart from that, I have no idea about the MoBo. Is that a good quality MoBo with the right BIOS? (I'm not planning on overclocking).
The vid-card goes into one of the PCIe x16 slots and then I'll be needing a (normal) PCI slot for my M-audio 2496 soundcard (I'll be using the computer for both video and music production). There are two PCI slots, which seem not to be aligned, and flipped horizontally, strangely enough... I think I need to use the upper for my soundcard. Does that in any way pose a problem for fitting the vidcard?
(In one of the reviews I read: "Same issue with most boards though. Put in a reasonalbly sized video card in and lose a pci slot. Guess it can't be helped.")
I am not positive about ALL nVidia cards that support hardware MPE, but as far as I know from every one that I've seen, these nVidia cards take up TWO slots due to the cooling fan attached to the card
So, a card like the GTX 460 will go in the "top" PCI-16 slot and the regular PCI slot next door will be covered and not usable
I will GUESS that a GTX 460 could go in the "bottom" PCI-16 slot and some other PCI card could go above, in the PCI slot between the two PCI-16 slots
I use that Sparkle video card. It works a charm, even for Premiere Pro's CUDA processing. I can definitely recommend it.
I've not used that mobo yet, but it is the one I'll be buying shortly. (I like Asus.)
There are two PCIe x16 slots, and two PCI slots. The GPU does take up two spaces, but with the mobo's layout, I expect you'll find they both fit.
Thanks John and Jim!
Both of you do not seemed to be sure if both the s/card and the v/card will fit in this mobo.
I will GUESS that...
I expect you'll find...
Anyway, I'll still have to find a way to lower the costs, should I go self-built...
My only uncertainty is with the physical dimension of the other card. I've never seen it.
I might have to start all-over with checking out what system would be smart to put together/buy now that the Sandy Bridge CPUs are out...
the Intel Core i7-2600K (or even the i5-2500K) seems a much better buy than the older i7-CPU (apart from the too expensive i7-980X Extreme Ed. CPU, in cases of heavily multi-threaded applications).
I don't know. Given the limited feature set of the first round of SB CPUs, I still think the 950 is the better choice. The feature rich SB mobos won't be out for about a year.
i7-8xx is succeeded by Sandy Bridge. Great news for i7-8xx owners, who now have a fast alternative.
i7-9xx will be succeeded by Sandy Bridge E. Great news for i7-9xx owners, who will have a fast alternative.
When the i7-8xx came out, people wanted to get the latest and the newest, but it was always advised not to go that route, because of the limitations of the platform, P55. Look where the first i7-8xx ends up in the PPBM5 Benchmark
Now history repeats itself. People want to get the latest and newest Sandy Bridge, and admitted the SB performs much better than the i7-8xx, but the same limitations of the P55, that made it ill suited for video editing, are all applicable to the P67 as well, making it ill suited for video editing.
Things will change dramatically with the new SB-E and X68 platform. To show some of the main distiniguishing factors:
Feature i7-8xx Sandy Bridge i7-9xx Sandy Bridge E CPU Quad core (4 + HT) Quad core (4 + HT) Quad/hexa core (4/6 + HT) Octo core (8 + HT) Memory
2 x DDR3-1333
2 x DDR3-1333
3 x DDR3-1333
4 x DDR3-1600
Memory bandwidth peak 21.3 GB/s 51.2 GB/s DIMM slots 4 4 6 12 Memory capacity with 4 GB modules 16 GB 16 GB 24 GB 48 GB PCI-e lanes 20 20 36 40 PCI-e version 2.0 2.0 2.0 3.0 Dedicated Raid controller NA NA Yes Yes L3 cache 8 MB 8 MB 8 / 12 MB 20 MB
When a new version CPU comes out, it does not mean that older versions are dead. There are still a lot of 775 CPU's sold, despite the fact that 1366 CPU's have been around for years. These 775 CPU's still have their use for certain applications and do a great job at that.
As is clear from the table above the SB is a nice evolution, but the revolution starts with the SB-E. Untill that time the i7-9xx is still the best option. I know that Scott and I differ on that, but I predict that the SB will end up in the benchmark lists in comparison to the SB-E in the same way the i7-8xx ends up now in comparison to the i7-9xx.
The Sandy Bridge E/Waimea will double about everything compared to the Sandy Bridge: double the cores, triple the memory, double the PCI-e lanes, more than double the L3 cache and PCI-e Gen 3.0
Waimea bay, the X68 platform, is worth looking out for.
and until Dec when theSandy bridge 1366 replacement comes out
present Sandy bridge kills the X58.
so buy the new sandy bridge now or wait nearly a year..
I have told you again and again the 920 is faster than the 2600K by a significant margin at the same clock speed. Why do you keep repeating false facts?
I'm getting tired of your false arguments and unsubstantiated claims. What is faster 245 or 166 seconds?
stock 950 274 ranked 44th
stock 2600 186 ranked 14th
you were saying?
stock 2600 is 14th
again remove the xeons and OCed processors and the STOCK 2600 is #1
you are only debating with your own benchmarks..
Incorrect, there are no stock 2600K results submitted, I asked Eric to do that.
The 2600K comes out at 245, the 920 at 166.
please show me the STOCK 920 thats getting 166? or a 980 for that matter..
and again the STOCK 2600 is at 186
the 245 you keep referencing is with a different video card nice of you to try to pull that off
is the same speed as the one above with a 570..
Compare systems that have half their memory capacity filled, not one at full capacity and the other at half.
So the 245 compares to the 166. BOTH overclocked. Intel specs with turbo can not increase more than 100 MHz per bin on multithreaded applications.
Hehe thanks allot Harm, trying to get me in trouble
I will try and get you the default turbo settings results asap. However we are not shipping them that way. We are shipping with the turbo at 3.9.
The 3.9 is technically overclocked only because the default turbo is 3.8. There is not much you have to change for that.
you better read up on turbo with SB.. you are very wrong...
i am sorry
but thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard. compare systems @ 1/2 capacity of ram.. like memory matter so much..
but fine lets remove your 12 drive raid array and put a 460 video card in your 920 as well...
i am absoultely blown away by how you have been acting toward Sandy Bridge and the facts put forth to you including your own benchmarks suite.
you have attempted to twist anything and everything to support your stance
are you that bad a curmudgen you cant recant and say
" well now that the facts have been presented i may have been wrong about sandy bridge" ?
honestly it wont hurt near as bad as you think..
i had to eat crow on sandy bridge myself.... as when we first tested it (2300) it sucked and i said so in public forums..
from our benchmarks which is real workflow for most on this forum not a synthetic test. showing 8-16 gig dont mean diddly..
both stock speeds and the 16 gig sytem even had a better video card..
Premiere Pro CS5 Version 5.0.3 Testing
I7 2600 3.4GHZ Turbo to 3.9GHz
8GB Blackline 1600 CL 9
4 WD 1Tb Sata 64 Meg Cache 600 Drives in 2 Raid 0 arrays
Video material - AVCHD 1080P 24 Frame Each Cut to 30 minutes of material
Export Codec - H264 HDTV 1080P 24 Preset Default
4 Effects per Layer - Fast Color Corrector, Brightness & Contrast, Video Limiter, Sharpen
Each Layer Scaled to 50% for 4 frame PinP view.
3 Layer - 37:35
4 Layer - 40:49
16GB Blackline 1600 CL 9
3 Layer - 36:17
4 Layer - 40:05
Hey friends !!
what i think when i come to this forum, i needed help to setup a pc to edit dslr footage whit maximum 2 drives like the 90% around outside and I see,
you are discussing about technical...
sandy bridge is a fact, if you have the posibility in to use it at 4.7 why not to use it ? What people wants is DONT WASTE MONEY...
please still focused in THAT !!! 90% people goes with low budget 10% goes whit a macpro/980x/xeons but they dont think about 950/2600k
2600k is a fact to everybody.
This is perfect to me, it was what I expected about this system... maybe in next year I will go whit SB-E....
lets remove your 12 drive raid array and put a 460 video card in your 920 as well...
I can actually offer that, as that is precisely what I have. I'll see if I can get the benchmark run in the next couple of days.
frankly we dont have an 950 builds coming up (and no stock on 950s, used to be 10 on the shelf at all times)
as we are steering everyone to the SB other than High end users..
i do have a 975 but i think Eric is sick of running tests
its been a crazy few weeks with this release.