8 Replies Latest reply on Jan 5, 2011 3:36 AM by PatricioK2011

    Another problems with 5.1 audio.

    PatricioK2011

       

      I have CS5 64bit. I am interested to process 1920x1080 25p 5.1 MTS files from my Sony camcorder to ordinary Blue-ray disc for home purpose.

      I understood CS5 is degrading audio to 2ch and only way is to use some external software. What we can expect from such “cheap” software? Besides solutions for experts I found only plug-in recommendations on forum – SurCode or MainConcept. I decided for MainConcept because of reputation of encoder.

       

      My projects consist from Photoshop menu and chapters which I encode separately and I import them encoded into Encore.

       

      First solution was to encode chapters by MainConcept Advanced Export. I found specification what Encore accepted as Don’t transcode. Unfortunately after starting building project in Encore I got error “Blue-ray Error: “file already exists”, Code: ”6”, Note: “Video buffer underflows. Total bitrate is too high near time=xxxx.” Of course I used the same setting of bitrate for MainConcept like for H.264 Blue-ray format of encoding and I have no such problem with H.264 Blue-ray. I have to add that MainConcept encoder was remarkably faster than built in PP, probably thanks to better using of GPU. I have Nvidia 460 (registered CUDA). Temperature of GPU was 5 degrees higher with MainConcept. Encoded files were slightly smaller and I didn’t see quality difference.

       

      My second solution was to combine M4V video from H.264 Blue-ray format and AC3 audio from MainConcept Advanced Export. I found combination which is working for single chapter. If there is only 1 chapter in project, Encore is directly building the streams and audio is 6ch. If there are more chapters, Encore is rebuilding (in fact degrading) them to 2ch.

       

      Third solution is to have only 1 big chapter with Encore chapter marks but it is too big cake to encode 25 GB in 1 session.

       

      Forth solution is to switch to Sony Vegas. I was satisfied user of CS3 for DVD and I didn’t check weaknesses of CS5 comparing Vegas before spending money for CS5. Sony Vegas (not Pro) is cheaper than SurCode plug-in.

       

      Preferable solution is to find compatibility of MainConcept and Encore not to have 2 encoding (1 for video, 1 for audio). MainConcept is registered plug-in and it seems I am making some mistake in settings. Even with solution of combining audio and video from different encodings I can survive.

       

      Please can anybody help me?

      Thank you for any advice besides SurCode.

       

      Patricio

        • 1. Re: Another problems with 5.1 audio.
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          There was an article, a little over a year ago, for a "poor man's SurCode." The author of that article used freeware to create DVD/BD compliant 5.1 SS Audio. I do not recall the writer's screen name, but think that there are several links to that thread around the forum.

           

          As I have the SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in, and love it, I have to admit that I did not follow that article closely, so when you find it, I cannot vouch for how well, or poorly, it might work. Seems that a few replies were less then complimentary of the process, but I never tried it.

           

          As the SurCode plug-in works perfectly, and seamlessly, I have never had a reason to look beyond that. Maybe others can steer you in the right direction, but would suggest that you do a Search of this forum, to try and locate that freeware workflow.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Another problems with 5.1 audio.
            PatricioK2011 Level 1

            Dear Bill,

             

            Thank you for very quick response. I know you are happy user of SurCode, I red it in many articles. I spent 3 Christmas days reading Adobe forum. I found before article what you are writing about but I was not able to follow solution. Therefore I wrote "besides solutions for experts". Secondly, I have MainConcept plug-in, solution of that expert was based on free software. At least I am using Audacity described in that article to check all audio channels after encoding.

            I red that CS4 had maybe better compatibility with MainConcept or Adobe is now more pushing Minnetoka solution. Is there any MainConcept user of CS5, please?

             

            Patricio

            • 3. Re: Another problems with 5.1 audio.
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Patricio,

               

              Do you have the link to that article handy? If so, please post it. When it came out, in the CS4 forum (no CS5 forum yet), I also published a link to it in the PrElements forum, but now cannot find it. So far, my searches are all coming up with other articles, but not that one.

               

              I'd like to take a look at the article. I might be able to distill some of that author's suggestions, given a bit of time.

               

              Good luck, and If I find some other solution, I will post it for you. Just have to admit that I have not been searching. Now, others DO like the Sony Vegas products, and I have not heard anything negative about how they handle DD 5.1 SS. I just do not know the workflow of those programs. And thank you for the link, if you have it.

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Another problems with 5.1 audio.
                PatricioK2011 Level 1

                Dear Bill,

                 

                Key word "Audacity" helped me. It was http://forums.adobe.com/message/2340957 from Terrachild and it is related to CS4. He is writing about another tutorial on http://forums.adobe.com/thread/511934.

                 

                 

                Patricio

                • 5. Re: Another problems with 5.1 audio.
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Thank you for that. It is now bookmarked (probably was in my previous browser, and I forgot to look there). I will read over and try to duplicate Terrachild's workflow, to see how well I can make it work.

                   

                  Greatly appreciated,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Another problems with 5.1 audio.
                    PatricioK2011 Level 1

                    After 3 weeks of finding I resigned and I wrote on forum. 2 hours later I found partial solution which is working. I solved the problem of rebuilding audio with more chapters in 1 timeline. My solution No. 3 to have  big file with chapter marks was really stupid fatality. But if every file with chapter is in own timeline, Encore is not downgrading 5.1 audio to 2ch. So I already have my first BD with 5.1 audio without SurCode but my solution is really not elegant. MainConcept is not free alternative and I still didn't find the reason of error of MainConcept video. It is solution for anybody who already has MainConcept.

                    I still hope anybody will write about way how to build BD from AVCHD video encoded by MainConcept.

                     

                    Patricio

                    • 7. Re: Another problems with 5.1 audio.
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Good news.

                       

                      Now, remember that Encore will NOT monitor DD 5.1 SS, even with an adequate sound card/chip. It will ONLY handle DD 5.1 SS AC3 in "pass through," which will Burn it to Disc, or Folder, or ISO, but ALL monitoring of the DD 5.1 SS MUST be done in PrPro, or in an Audio-editing program - not in En.

                       

                      As I edit with a workflow, where each "Chapter," or "Scene" is a separate Sequence, and hence a separate Timeline in En, I have not experimented with Chapter Markers and/or ganged Timelines.

                       

                      Also, for anyone else doing DD 5.1 SS in PrPro, and going to En for authoring, ADL will not bring in the DD 5.1 SS, unless it is created outside of PrPro and Imported as a DVD-compliant DD AC3. If encoding via the SurCode plug-in, one is relegated to doing things the "old fashioned way," of Export from PrPro w/ the SurCode encoding, and then Import into En.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                       

                      PS - and again, thanks for that link, as I had looked for it a month, or so ago, and never found the danged thing!

                      • 8. Re: Another problems with 5.1 audio.
                        PatricioK2011 Level 1

                        Only thing what I expected from Encore was to keep it's word "Don't transcode" for AC3. I understood poor Encore is not able to handle 5.1 audio, but if there are more AC3 files in 1 timeline it can't resist to degrade them. Is it described somewhere or man has to lose part of youth to find non-written rules of Adobe?

                        I was using 1 timeline with more files in CS3 for DVDs. It has advantage to rewind disc between chapters. Solution with own timeline for every chapter is not able to do that. Another disatvantage depends probably on BD player. My Onkyo is switching setting of AV receiver during changing timeline playing BD disc and it is disturbing.

                        I found solution for 1 timeline. It is working if I am combining separated video files for every chapter with 1 big common AC3 file for whole disc. Disadvantage of such solution is clear - encoding of such big file. Because video is not needed it can be encoded much faster. Another disadvantage is higher used size of disc, I don't understand why.

                        Having 2 poor solutions is better than nothing.

                        Problem of MainConcept video compatibility I will try to move to Encore forum.

                         

                        P.S.

                        It was really a pleasure and a kind of honour for me to send something to the star of forum. It is clear you will use it for helping other people, with SurCode you need not it.