12 Replies Latest reply on Jan 26, 2011 8:56 AM by Noel Carboni

    Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?

    *Rich* Level 1

      I know ACR saves RAW file edits to side-car files, not permanently changing the original file. Does ACR do the same for JPEG and TIFF files when they are opened, edited and saved? Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
          dfranzen_adobe Level 3

          No. For JPEG and TIFF (and DNG) files, Camera Raw will save metadata inside the file instead of inside a sidecar file.

           

          -David

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
            *Rich* Level 1

            So does that mean you can still go back to a JPEG file that was previously edited in ACR and reverse an edit, lets say a crop? Or is the JPEG file permanently changed once it is saved in ACR? Thanks.

            • 3. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
              dfranzen_adobe Level 3

              Yes, you can undo crops or other Camera Raw develop settings made to JPEGs just as you can with RAW files. The file is changed by Camera Raw only to save your settings as metadata inside the file—the image data inside the JPEG file is not changed. The Camera Raw settings are just a set of instructions about how to process the image, and are used to create the image shown onscreen in the Camera Raw dialog as you work, to create any new files based on your original exported from Camera Raw (click the Save Image button), and to create the image that opens in Photoshop when you click the Open Image button in Camera Raw.

               

              Note that you can clear settings from JPEGs just like with RAWs in Bridge by right-clicking on the thumbnail and choosing Develop Settings > Clear Settings. Also, take a look at the Camera Raw preferences dialog. You'll see there options to control how JPEGs and TIFFs are opened in Photoshop through Camera Raw: not at all, only for files with Camera Raw settings in them, or all the time. Even if you have JPEGs with Camera Raw settings, you can still open them following as  in a traditional workflow by setting this option to "Disable" for JPEGs and them opening them in Photoshop.

               

              -David

              • 4. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
                Noel Carboni Level 7

                The original JPEG data absolutely does get lost if one does this:

                 

                1.  Open a JPEG in ACR.

                2.  Crop it (say severely, to illustrate the point).

                3.  Open it into Photoshop and do whatever.

                4.  File - Save over the original file.

                 

                Sure, Photoshop brings up a dialog for step 4 to remind you not to save over the original JPEG, but if the user unthinkingly just completes the save and confirms the overwrite, the original JPEG is lost.

                 

                The fundamental difference here is that an actual raw file simply cannot be resaved, while Photoshop does know how to write a JPEG.

                 

                So the description above should probably include this warning:

                 

                Make sure and save your edited results to a DIFFERENT file if you want to be able to repeat, adjust, or undo some of the Camera Raw editing operations done to a JPEG on open.

                 

                -Noel

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
                  *Rich* Level 1

                  Thanks Noel.

                   

                  So if I understand how ACR works on saving JPEG's, if I use "Save Image" in ACR and don't do any editing in Photoshop afterwards, I can reopen the JPEG in ACR to alter what I previously did and/or continue editing where I left off. Once I edit the file in PS, and save over it, ACR can no longer "remember" the settings of the previous ACR editing session.

                  • 6. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
                    dfranzen_adobe Level 3

                    Sorry Rich, I might have confused you.

                     

                     

                    You might want to check out this video from Terry White:

                    http://tv.adobe.com/watch/creative-suite-podcast-photographers/how-to-use-jpg-files-in-ado be-camera-raw

                     

                     

                    Save Image Button -- Camera Raw writes out a NEW FILE (you choose the file format); the pixels in the new file look like the "developed" ones you see in the Camera Raw dialog; the settings are "baked into" these pixels.

                     

                    Done Button -- Camera Raw saves your settings inside your original JPEG, but the JPEG's image data is not changed.

                     

                    Open Button - Camera Raw tells Photoshop to open the image in a NEW DOCUMNET inside Photoshop. The pixels look like the ones you saw in the Camera Raw dialog--settings "baked into" the pixels. And Camera Raw also saves your settings back to the origional JPEG, like with the Done button.

                     

                    Once you create a NEW file, you can't go and alter the camera raw settings in the new file. But once Camera Raw saves the settings to the original file, you can go back to the original file, change the settings again, and open or save another NEW file.

                     

                    Yes, as Noel points out it's possible to shoot yourself in the foot by accidentally saving-over your original JPEG files in Photoshop. But of course this is true of any file you open in Photoshop and really isn't unique to a Camera Raw wokflow. To protect you from this, once you open a new document in Photoshop from the Camera Raw dialog, the behavior of the File > Save (cmd+S) command is to put the Save dialog in your face so you must choose where to save the image in a NEW FILE, and if you try to select your original file you will get a warning about overwriting the file.

                     

                    -David

                    • 7. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
                      *Rich* Level 1

                       

                      Open Button - Camera Raw tells Photoshop to open the image in a NEW DOCUMNET inside Photoshop. The pixels look like the ones you saw in the Camera Raw dialog--settings "baked into" the pixels. And Camera Raw also saves your settings back to the origional JPEG, like with the Done button.

                       

                      Thanks David. This will help me include JPEG stock photos into my own RAW image workflow.

                       

                      One final question concerning what you wrote above (in bold). Are you saying that edits made in PS on the file opened from ACR are saved by ACR back to the original file's metadata if it's saved (cmd+S) as another file (not over the original)?

                      • 8. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
                        Noel Carboni Level 7

                        Edits made in PS are differentiated from those made in Camera Raw.  As far as I know metadata describing them is not saved with the Camera Raw metadata back into the original file.

                         

                        Now (to confuse matters) it IS possible to save a description of the edits made in Photoshop proper as metadata as well...  See the Edit - Preferences - General dialog, History Log section for more info on this.  If configured to do so, however, this metadata will go into the newly saved output file, not back into the original JPEG.  It can be later viewed via File - File Info, History tab.

                         

                        -Noel

                        • 9. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
                          teedubb9

                          This was a bit of a shocker to me: From Scott Kelby's book "The Adobe Photoshop CS5 Book for Digital Photographers" under the heading "Editing JPEG & TIFF images in Camera Raw:"

                           

                          "But there is a big distinction between editing JPEG or TIFF images and editing a RAW image. If you click the Done button, you're actually affecting the real pixels of the original JPEG or TIFF, whereas, if this were a RAW image, you wouldn't be."

                           

                          Here I thought the edits to JPEGS in Camera Raw were non-destructive. It doesn't sound like that is the case (according to Kelby).

                          • 10. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
                            dfranzen_adobe Level 3

                            The information you quote is either wrong, or taken out of context. Camera Raw and Lightroom do provide a so-called "non-destructive" editing for JPEGs and TIFFs.

                             

                            Noel listed a set of steps that, when followed, will overwrite the original file, but that's not the way the tools were designed to be used. And (I hope) not a set of steps our UI encourages you to follow.

                             

                            -David

                            • 11. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
                              teedubb9 Level 1

                              Dave, Thanks so much for your quick reply. I sure am relieved to hear this but the quote does appear, as I copied it, in Kelby's latest Photoshop book on page 24 in the chapter "Working with Camera Raw." Thank you again for clarifying this for us!

                              • 12. Re: Does ACR save JPEG & TIFF files like RAW files are saved?
                                Noel Carboni Level 7

                                I wonder if Kelby could have been confused by the fact that the metadata describing the Camera Raw settings is being stored back into the JPEG file.  The key is that the JPEG file is indeed re-written, but the actual image data is not changed.

                                 

                                 

                                Here's an experiment you can try for yourself:

                                 

                                1.  Start Photoshop, and choose File - Open As...

                                 

                                2.  Change the type to Camera Raw, and choose a JPEG file that you have on your disk, and press [Open].

                                 

                                3.  When Camera Raw comes up, push the Exposure control all the way to -4.00 EV and press [Open Image].

                                 

                                4.  Note that it's very dark, as expected.

                                 

                                5.  Close the document, do not save.

                                 

                                6.  Note that the JPEG file has been updated on your disk by seeing that its date and time are current.

                                 

                                7.  Choose File - Open As... again and open the same JPEG file.

                                 

                                8.  Note that the Exposure control is set again to -4.00 EV and the preview is very dark.

                                 

                                9.  [Cancel] the Camera Raw dialog.

                                 

                                10.  Open the same JPEG file from Windows Explorer using the Windows Photo Viewer.  Note that it is NOT dark.  The original JPEG data is still intact, as bright as it ever was.

                                 

                                 

                                -Noel