9 Replies Latest reply on Jan 13, 2011 12:11 PM by Colin Brougham

    Trouble with Red Camera project

    NEIL MYERS

      Hello again ...

       

      I am trying to edit a project with some very nice Red footage.  Resolution of the Red RAW footage is 4,096 x 2,304.  The project is a medium complex project, I would say.  It has the raw footage, shot on greenscreen, with the following effects and layers:

       

      1. Talent was masked, keyed and color corrected in PPro.  I tried to export to AE using a Dynamic link but that was a quick fail.  It got hopelessly confused and wouldn't work correctly (it would crash, convert all clips to the first clip, etc.).  I love Dynamic Link and use it all the time with our Panasonic 170 footage, but the large size of the Red files seems to cause problems.

       

      So, we got really good at keying in PPro.

       

      2. We then used that sequence as a track in a second sequence, where we dropped in the background and a reflection layer.  We also did light wrap using Digieffects Delerium 2 plugin.

       

      Here is a screen capture of a sample frame:

       

      Screen capture.png

       

       

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------

       

       

      Before I describe the current problem, let me describe my computer:

       

      Intel Core i7 950 @ 3.07 Ghz

      24GB RAM

      Windows 7 64

      System drive is a 4GB SATA drive (not RAID)

      Project drive is a 8 x 2 TB SATA tower.  RAID 10.  Sustained data rate is roughly 225MB/second

      NVidia GTX 285 4GB ram

      We are running MPE successfully

       

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------

      SO ... what is our problem?

       

      1. Very slow timeline editing.  How slow?  Well, I have been editing on PCs for 15 years and this is as slow as I have ever seen.  If you click to a different part of the timeline it just sits.  Half the time it doesn't change the display.  Sometimes it does.

       

      2. Dynamic link doesn't work (see above).

       

      3. Previews take roughly 1 hour per 15 seconds of timeline to render.  The project is 2 minutes, so that means it takes 8 hours to render previews.  At 1/2 quality.  Yikes!

       

      4. It will not render in Media Encoder.  It crashes after about 6 to 8 minutes.

       

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------------------------------------------

       

      What am I doing wrong?  Is this a known problem?  Is this just too much to ask of PPro?  Should I first have a professional house transcode the Red RAW down to 1080P?

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Trouble with Red Camera project
          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

          Have you installed the Premiere Pro CS5 (5.0.3) update? The recent updates fix a lot of problems.

          • 2. Re: Trouble with Red Camera project
            NEIL MYERS Level 1

            I should have included that in my original post.  Yes, I am running CS5 5.03.

             

            Thanks.

            • 3. Re: Trouble with Red Camera project
              shooternz Level 6

              I would have  keyed and created an intermediate clip  in AEFX

               

              The key you have produced in PPRO ...aint great... and that maybe because of the issues you are having.

               

              DL on a super hi res such as Red 4k is very demanding.  change the workflow so that it "works" for you.

              • 4. Re: Trouble with Red Camera project
                NEIL MYERS Level 1

                shooternz wrote:

                 

                I would have  keyed and created an intermediate clip  in AEFX

                 

                The key you have produced in PPRO ...aint great... and that maybe because of the issues you are having.

                 

                DL on a super hi res such as Red 4k is very demanding.  change the workflow so that it "works" for you.

                I'll try that.  I have to admit, I feel misled my Adobe's marketing of the Red workflow.  It sure doesn't seem ready for primetime to me.  Final Cut Pro cannot work with full rez Red Raw.  It is seeming to me that, for all practical purposes, neither can PPro.

                 

                I'll create the key, reflections, light wrap and composition in AE and then create a 1080P version from that to run through PPro.

                 

                By the way, the platform I am editing on removes all the bottlenecks I can.  But when I watch the resource monitors while PPro is running it is clear the one bottleneck that remains is the CPU.  It never goes above 15GB of memory usage, and the disk I/O capacity I have is more than enough, but all 8 cores are pegged at 100% most of the time.

                • 5. Re: Trouble with Red Camera project
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  I haven't tried DL yet with RED footage.  Other than that, it seems to work fine on my slightly lesser system.  (i7 920, 12GB RAM, GTX 460)

                   

                  It does take much longer to render, however, than normal footage.  A 30 second 3K piece with only Magic Bullet Looks and Colorista applied takes about 45 minutes to export to an HD DI using the UT codec.  So...8 hours for 2 minutes worth doesn't seem that far off, given the higher res and other added effects.

                  • 6. Re: Trouble with Red Camera project
                    davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                    I'll agree with Jim on this... my system is identical to his, except that I've got a GTX285 instead of the 470 for graphics. I can edit 4K (and even 4.5K) RED RAW files smooth as butter on my system. I do have to keep my playback resolution down at 1/2-1/4 to get smooth playback, but it is definitely smooth at that. I'm not using any of the real big fancy third-party plugins, but I have done a good bit with multiple layers of the three-way CC, Levels, and much more... And I've got several tracks of video with interviews, b-roll, etc, so rather complex timelines. I experience no issues at all with working with RED RAW footage, so I can vouch for the fact that it's not Premiere... sounds like something specific to your system or your workflow.

                     

                    I would agree with the advice given above to key in AE first and then bring it in to PrPro that way. Sounds to me also like you might have a memory issue--are you running other programs along with PrPro when doing this? Perhaps have a bad stick of RAM in there somewhere?

                    • 7. Re: Trouble with Red Camera project
                      NEIL MYERS Level 1

                      Definitely no memory issue.  When I watch the memory performance monitor it shows a max of 15GB of ram used for this.  I have tried rebooting and making sure NOTHING else is running, but the problem persists.

                       

                      We're going to take the raw Red files and build this up in AE and then render that out and bring it into PPro for final editing.  I suspect that will fix the problem.  It adds one transcode (from AE to PPro), which I didn't want to do, but hopefully that won't cuase any visible issues.

                       

                      I'll report back when it is done one way or the other.

                      • 8. Re: Trouble with Red Camera project
                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                        Have you tried without the Digieffects effect on the footage? I've found the new version to be almost unusable--it's really bad in Premiere and they're worse in AE. Since it's not an MPE-accelerated effect, it will also pretty quickly kill your real-time playback.

                         

                        I'd just try peeling back the layers here until you isolate the issue--I don't think a whole new workflow is necessary at this juncture.

                        • 9. Re: Trouble with Red Camera project
                          davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                          I know you mentioned the DL from PPro to AE not working... any chance you could cut out the transcode from AE to PPro by doing a DL that way?

                           

                          Good luck!

                           

                          FWIW, 15GB of Ram seems awfully high for what you've mentioned... I've accomplished much more in-depth timelines than yours and never climbed past about 6GB...