21 Replies Latest reply on Jan 20, 2011 4:03 AM by nealeh

    Premier Elements driving me mad

    Graham WT

      Hi

       

      For info I have a Sony Viao desktop.

      Vista Home Premium Service Pack 2

      Processor Intel Core (TM)2 Duo CPU

      RAM 2.00 GB

      32 bit system.

       

      I bought Elements 9 so I could edit videos.

      I have transferred some video from my camcorder to the PC using ION EZ Converter.  This stores the video as .mpg.

       

      When I open Elements (which seems to take absolutely ages and hugely slows my computer down whilst it opens), I go into "organise" and see the thumbnaill of the video.  However, I can't do anything with it.  The first time I went in, I managed to drag it across to the left pains and I got a timeline but when I pressed play the timeline moved and I got sound but no picture.  Every subsequent time I try to do the same thing the right hand pane simply flicks into video effects with a load of hang-gliders and I can't get back to the video clip.

       

      So far I must have spent 3 hours going round in circles getting more and more frustrated.

       

      Oh, at someone's suggestion I tried downloading SHARK007 Codec pack but this didn't seem to help.

       

      Graham WT

        • 1. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          I would recommend against using those low-end digitizers for getting your video into your computer. They're generally made to work only with the software that comes with them, and can give programs like Premiere Elements heartburn!

           

          The problem is that they don't capture your video in a universally editable format, like DV-AVIs.

           

          A DV bridge will. The ADS Pyro AV Link is a great value and will capture your video in a format that should work perfectly with Premiere Elements, per the FAQs to the right of this forum.

          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/431853?tstart=0

          • 2. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Graham,

             

            What make/model of camcorder are you shooting with, and what format does it shoot? Is this an analog camcorder, or a digital one?

             

            As for CODEC "packs," I find that the majority do more harm, than good. I strongly recommend that one ONLY download and install the exact CODEC that they need, and when they need it. I also recommend trying to go to the source of that CODEC, even if one needs to pay for it. At the very best, a CODEC pack will install a lot of "stuff" that you do not need, or want. At the worst, it will install things that can ruin an NLE (Non Linear Editor) program. Along the way, it will very likely overwrite good, existing CODEC's on the system. These problems are so bad, that Adobe actually hides the CODEC's, that it installs, to keep other programs from overwriting them.

             

            I'll bet that we can come up with a good workflow, and get you to editing effectively, and with higher quality in the output.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
              Graham WT Level 1

              Thanks for the response. I've had a look at the ADS Pyro. It gets quite a poor write up and seems to be out of stock in the UK suppliers.  Also, I don't understand why I can view the video in premiere elements 9 but I can't see it when I go into the edit mode.

               

              Are there any other "digitizers" out there that I could get hold of in the UK?

               

              Graham

               

              Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:06:02 -0700

              From: forums@adobe.com

              To: ward-thompson@msn.com

              Subject: Premier Elements driving me mad

               

              I would recommend against using those low-end digitizers for getting your video into your computer. They're generally made to work only with the software that comes with them, and can give programs like Premiere Elements heartburn!

               

              The problem is that they don't capture your video in a universally editable format, like DV-AVIs.

               

              A DV bridge will. The ADS Pyro AV Link is a great value and will capture your video in a format that should work perfectly with Premiere Elements, per the FAQs to the right of this forum.

              http://forums.adobe.com/thread/431853?tstart=0

              >

              • 4. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                Graham WT Level 1

                Bill

                 

                Thanks for the response. This is rather embarrassing as I'm such a novice at this that I'm not sure whether the output from my camcorder is digital or analog!  I've had a look and the Camcorder is a Panasonic Digital video camera and the tape says it is a digital video tape so I guess I'm digital!

                 

                The worrying thing is that I have downloaded that codec so I hope I haven't shot myself in the foot.

                 

                I've just started to use the camera again to film events at my triathlon club and am desperate to get them on the club website appropriately edited.

                 

                Thanks again

                 

                Graham

                 

                Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:59:31 -0700

                From: forums@adobe.com

                To: ward-thompson@msn.com

                Subject: Premier Elements driving me mad

                 

                Graham,

                 

                What make/model of camcorder are you shooting with, and what format does it shoot? Is this an analog camcorder, or a digital one?

                 

                As for CODEC "packs," I find that the majority do more harm, than good. I strongly recommend that one ONLY download and install the exact CODEC that they need, and when they need it. I also recommend trying to go to the source of that CODEC, even if one needs to pay for it. At the very best, a CODEC pack will install a lot of "stuff" that you do not need, or want. At the worst, it will install things that can ruin an NLE (Non Linear Editor) program. Along the way, it will very likely overwrite good, existing CODEC's on the system. These problems are so bad, that Adobe actually hides the CODEC's, that it installs, to keep other programs from overwriting them.

                 

                I'll bet that we can come up with a good workflow, and get you to editing effectively, and with higher quality in the output.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                >

                • 5. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  While I do not know the device that you are using, that you looked at the ADS Pyro unit indicates that you do have analog footage.

                   

                  As for an alternative, I like the Canopus/Grass Valley ADVC-110. I use their higher-end unit, the 300, but was able to justify the price difference, over the number of VHS tapes that I digitize. The 110 is about the same price as the Pyro. Also, there are several threads on the Pyro, on Muvipix, and many users there love that device. I do not know about availability in the UK. One of our frequent contributors, Neale, is UK-based, and should be able to help you on that end.

                   

                  The beauty of using an A-D bridge, like the Pyro, or the Canopus, is that they will allow you to Capture in PrE, and with the MS DV-AVI CODEC. You will need nothing else. Simple, easy and the footage will edit as well, as one could possibly expect. It will appear to be as good (or better, when you tweak it a bit), as the original footage.

                   

                  This ARTICLE discusses an analog to digital workflow.

                   

                  Good luck, and hope that Neale can make some UK-specific recs.

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                    nealeh Level 5

                    I'm in the UK and have the Canopus ADVC300 which is fantastic. I bought it online from PC World. The only irritating thing about it is the vast numbers of adjustments available, the effects of which are not usefully described in the manual.

                     

                    Cheers,
                    --
                    Neale
                    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                    • 7. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Neale,

                       

                      Those are good points.The 300 offers many more TimeBase Correction features, than does the 110, and they are NOT well-documented. Canopus/GV needs a full manual with all controls detailed.

                       

                      Glad that you saw the thread, and could comment on the UK-availability of the ADVC-300 (or the 110). I just could not answer that question.

                       

                      Thanks,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                        DurbsLad Level 1

                        Graham, you confess to being a newbie, so I hope I can offer some useful thoughts.

                         

                        You have a camera which records on digital tape.  That means that it's recorded in digital form.  If you are capturing from the composite or S-Video output of the camera, you are converting that video into analogue form and digitising that.  A digital camera should have a Firewire port, and possibly a USB port.  These allow you to transfer the video in digital form, and Premiere Elements (PE) should be able to capture it directly as long as you connect the digital port to your computer, which may need a card added (to a desktop) or a Firewire/USB plug-in if you don't have a Firewire port on the computer.  These are not terribly expensive.

                         

                        When you import your footage to PE, the first thing it usually does is index the video, and this can take considerable time, especially if it's a large file.  You should see a progress bar at the bottom right of the PE window, in the status bar.  Once the video is index, the audio is "conformed", which is a faster process.  Until the indexing is finished you can't see the pictures, and until the conforming is finished you can't hear the sound.  While indexing is in progress, you should see a fixed image in lieu of the clip images.

                         

                        The purists recommend using DV-AVI, which is uncompressed and therefore suffers no quality loss and should process faster since it doesn't need to be decompressed for display.  If you have lots of disk space, this is the best option.  If you don't have the luxury of lots of space, compressed formats such as MPEG variants do work well, but the more sophisticated the compression algorithm, the more CPU grunt it takes to do it well.  I've used a number of in-built cards and USB devices over the years, and they have all worked well and none was terribly expensive.  The reason I've had to replace the devices was not that they failed, but that Windows updates destroyed the drivers, which was rather annoying.  Rather than wait for a later update to correct what was fouled up, I've been impatient and bought a new device.  Also, upgrading the machine generally means upgrading the operating system, and support for "legacy" devices tends to be, shall we say, unsatisfactory (Windows 7 64-bit is why I had to replace scanner, printer and video capture device!), and much software besides!  Virtual machines solved some of the issues, but PE doesn't play nicely with sound drivers in virtual machines.

                         

                        A final point: if your project specifies one video format and your video footage is something else, you will get poor performance, as I have discovered.  Check that match (PE9 offers to correct it with the first clip you add, which is nice), and use the render option if there's a mismatch, and especially if you see red line segments on the top of the timeline bar.  Define the region you want to render with the sliders at the top, press enter, and she's off.

                         

                        I wish you happy editing - PE is a far better editor than the others I've seen, mostly because it allows many layers of video rather than just the main one and picture-in-picture, and indefinite numbers of effects.  Ask for help here if you run into trouble, and my experience is that one gets excellent advice.

                        • 9. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                          Actually DV-AVIs aren't uncompressed. They just use a relatively mild compression (about 5:1). But, more importantly, they are the universal language of PC-based video editors. Virtually all can edit this format natively.

                           

                          MPEGs are smaller, but many editors need to continually render them to work with them -- and that can be rather bothersome.

                           

                          Trust me us on this. You want a DV bridge that captures your video as DV-AVIs. And the ADS Pyro AV Link is one of the best you'll find for the money. They also offer excellent customer support.

                           

                          The Canopus AVDCs are even better, but cost a little more.

                           

                          The point is, don't try to go cheap on this or you'll end up with the problem you have: A digitizer that uses a codec Premiere Elements chokes on.

                           

                          Get a Pyro or a Canopus unit and your video editing life will get about 200% easier.

                          • 10. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                            DurbsLad Level 1

                            Steve, I don't like to disagree with you, but I think you are maligning Premiere Elements.  I have done much work with .mpg files and truly, it doesn't choke on them!  They may be less than optimal (but then, if you're starting with VHS video, you're already below optimal), but the program handles them with aplomb.  It used to be necessary to invert the field order, but that's been fixed, which is great.  PE9 is fine with MP4/H.264, as recorded by my camera and uploaded by doing a file copy, and I'm surprised and pleased by that.  If my sources were DV-AVI, I'd be using that, but I see little point in converting them when the editor is happy with what I have.  But I've wandered from my point, which is that PE has not in my experience choked on anything except mixed formats in one project, which turns out to be unwise.

                            • 11. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              There are two major issues, when starting with MPEG source files:

                               

                              Those are heavily compressed, and also use GOP structure, that most NLE programs must convert to full I-frame structure to do Frame-accurate editing. This ARTICLE goes into more detail. This is the biggest issue, when working from material that has been burned to DVD-Video.

                               

                              If one is then going to any compressed format/CODEC, there will be an additional compression step. It does not take too many compression steps, for the quality to suffer badly.

                               

                              That is why we recommend using slightly-compressed, uncompressed, or lossless files. For Import into PrE/PrPro, there is no better format than DV-AVI, as that is the native format for SD Projects in the two Adobe NLE programs.

                               

                              Good luck, and hope that this helps,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                                DurbsLad Level 1

                                Bill, I fully understand the issues involved in lossy compression algorithms.  I would not go through multiple iterations of re-editing the same footage; if I want to re-use a bit, I will go to the original source.  I am not advocating the use of MPEG formats as a preferred format.  I am only resisting the suggestion that they should not be used.  If one is starting with a compressed format and producing a DVD, one has no choice about decompressing what one starts with and compressing the final result to get MPEG-2, and if one is doing a single editing pass, extracting parts of clips with the odd transition effect and perhaps a few other effects, there is no advantage to converting to an intermediate format that takes ten times the space - and some people simply don't have oodles of space.

                                • 13. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                                  Graham WT Level 1

                                  Thanks for all the comments.  I've managed to move a couple of steps forward thanks to them.

                                   

                                  So, I now have bought a firewire lead, connected it to the PC and camera and imported the video (about 9 mins) as a .AVI file.  So, it looked like I was winning!

                                   

                                  However, when I tried to open premiere elements I get the initial screen asking me to choose organise or new project etc but it takes loads of attempts to get something to open up.  Eventually I go organiser to open up and managed to import the .avi file.  I than clicked on fix and the "edit videos".  I then got a message saying that "files sent to premiere elements will be inserted at the end of the timeline etc etc" but premiere elements never opens up.  So I still can't get to editing - although I feel I am tantalisingly close.  Can I have some more help just to get this over the finish line??

                                   

                                  Graham

                                  • 14. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                                    nealeh Level 5

                                    Open PRE first, before using the 'edit with PRE' feature.

                                     

                                    Cheers,
                                    --
                                    Neale
                                    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                    • 15. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      And, as a test, choose New Project, and select the DV PAL (for the UK and PAL-land). This should then place the Imported/Captured files into that Project's Timeline. As it will be otherwise empty, they should be placed at the beginning, 00;00;00;00.

                                       

                                      Good luck,

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                                        Graham WT Level 1

                                        Hmm.  I get the PRE welcome screen but when I click on new project it immediately closes down.  I just can't get new project to open up.

                                         

                                        Graham

                                        • 17. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                                          nealeh Level 5

                                          Then there is a more fundamental problem . Most likely that, with only 2GB of RAM, PSE and PRE cannot both be open simultaneously. First try closing both then open PRE9 first and create the project. Then open PSE and try the 'edit 'with PRE' feature. If that doesn't help then take a look at Bill's article Clean, Lean & Mean Editing Machine - One Workflow.This will give you lots of optimisation tips that, hopefully, will get your PRE/PSE open together.

                                           

                                          Cheers,
                                          --
                                          Neale
                                          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                          • 18. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                                            Graham WT Level 1

                                            No luck I'm afraid.

                                             

                                            I've looked at the package that came with the program and it says that it works with 2GHz processors and 1GB of RAM (2GB for HD) so it should work on my machine.  All the stuff about tuning up my machine fills a non techie like me with absolute dread and really I shouldn't need to get into this to get the programme to work.

                                             

                                            It sounds like we are all out of ideas and it's time to take the programme back to PC world and swap it for something else.  C'est ls vie - I'll have to keep clear of photoshop in future

                                             

                                            Graham

                                            • 19. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                                              Ted Smith Level 3

                                              I use PE9 on a computer with similar speed as yours and it works perfectly in standard definition.

                                               

                                              In high def, 4 gb RAM will make the preview less jerky and using a seperate hard drive for the video to your project will make preview of complicated edits much better.

                                               

                                              However I use only AVI files that originated on Sony cameras (they invented AVI).

                                               

                                              Maybe you could try converting your MPG files to DVI using one of the downloadable converters from the web? Then it should be the same.

                                              • 20. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                                                DurbsLad Level 1

                                                Graham, check to see if your firewall is blocking PE9 from accessing the Internet.  If so, it refuses to run, which ticks me off big-time - one should be able to use the program on a laptop away from the Internet.  I thought this might happen only until it was activated, but not so.  I keep meaning to get more information about this, but it could well be your problem.  The sequence I get is:

                                                - on startup, access is requested

                                                - the initial dialogue appears, and you can pick what you want to do

                                                - until I allow access, nothing more happens, and if I disallow it PE9 dons its pyjamas and goes to bed

                                                - when I grant access on the first dialogue, I get another for PE9

                                                - after allowing that, I get another request, this time for QT32 (and I don't want QuickTime output!)

                                                After that, things go beautifully.

                                                • 21. Re: Premier Elements driving me mad
                                                  nealeh Level 5

                                                  Other users have found that the Sony Vegas Studio range of software works well on machines that cannot run PRE. Might be worth your while downloading its trial version.

                                                   

                                                  Cheers,
                                                  --
                                                  Neale
                                                  Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children