17 Replies Latest reply on Jan 20, 2011 1:34 PM by Todd_Kopriva

    Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME

    flaviofranca

      I just bought a Quadro 4000 and it´s taking almost 5 hours to encode a 2.5 hours content to Blu-Ray format (H.264 Blu-Ray HQ 1440X1080). I have the latest Performance Drivers made available by Nvidia installed and it´s like all my 256 CUDA cores are sleeping. The entire load is upon the processor (an OC´ed Q6600 Core2Quad 3.2Ghz). How do I really "activate" CUDA GPU processing? All my Premiere and AME settings seems to be OK (Adobe Mercury Playback Engine GPU is ON) and all my Adobe software is up to date. I´m not being able to feel the "smooth editing" and "smooth encoding" bla bla bla Nvidia and Adobe spreads to sell the new Fermi Cards....Help!!!

       

      Thanks in advance for any solution

       

      Flavio

        • 1. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          Hardware MPE doesn't accelerate encoding. What you're experiencing is probably normal.


          • 2. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
            flaviofranca Level 1

            If it´s true, I´m pretty disappointed. It seems Adobe and Nvidia are selling a lie: http://www.nvidia.com/object/adobe_PremiereproCS5.html

            They say the Quadro GPU can accelerate video encoding up to 10 times....Watch the demo video.

            They are selling lies and / or there´s no full software support available yet for the new CUDA Fermi based cards. What a shame....

             

            Flavio.

            • 3. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              This is partly a case of marketing speak, and partly of you perhaps reading too much into what is actually accelerated by the hardware Mercury Playback Engine.

               

              The GPU accelerates rendering of certain effects that are built to be accelerated--you can filter these in the effects bin by clicking the first icon. Both in playback and during export, those effects will be handled by an appropriate GPU, and during export, you'll get the net effect of faster encoding. However, if your video has no effects or is using non-accelerated effects, it's a wash--the encoding itself is NOT accelerated.

               

              I wouldn't call it a lie; I'd call it a filtered truth.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                To be fair, the nVidia dude in the video did say "all composting end effects" for his project will be accelerated, and that is what speeds up the export.

                 

                Like Colin said, if your project doesn't use effects than can be accelerated, you won't see the benefit.

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  nVidia talks about PLAYBACK, not encoding. They are different animals, about as comparable as a snake and an eagle.

                   

                  The encoding demo only shows the advantage of rendering, not encoding and then under circumstances not normally used. They call that marketing. Haven't you heard that term before? Welcome to the art of marketing, which is something else than lying, it is only telling the part you want to emphasize and leaving the rest out.

                   

                  It is like the sale of the week: "50% off on all our eggs." That sounds great, but they left out the part that the eggs were only fresh and edible up to December last year. Is that a lie? No. Is that misleading? No, because the date is on the box. Is it dumb to fall for such a trick? Yes.

                   

                  Same here.

                  • 6. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                    flaviofranca Level 1

                    For the price they cost, Quadro cards should operate miracles for video editing and encoding....;) Endless 5 hours to encode a Blu-Ray really suckz...

                     

                    Well, if I continue not satisfied with its performance for professional apps, I can, at least, use it as an expensive videogame solution to power up my media center & games PC. I´m sure it will be much better than the old Geforce 8800 GTS I´ve installed there.....

                     

                    Thank you very much guys for the answers and support.

                     

                    Flavio.

                    • 7. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                      This thread gives the details of exactly what is accelerated using CUDA, plus all of the other things that people tend to ask about CUDA and Mercury:

                      http://forums.adobe.com/message/3377595

                      • 8. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                        RacerX2oo3 Level 1

                        While I believe it's been pretty well explained, the GPU accelerated Mercury Playback Engine accelerates playback and effects processing.  Many factors will come into play when playing back and encoding video to determine what your actual experience will be when editing.  When it comes to encoding video the actual encoding of the video to your desired output format is performed by the CPU, however depending on how your project is designed you will see significant improvements in your overall encoding time when using the Mercury Playback Engine with a certified Nvidia CUDA solution. 

                         

                        Many aspects of Premiere Pro are accelerated using the Nvidia GPU (GPU Effects, Scaling, deinterlacing, blending, etc.) whenever any of these types of attributes are applied to to your video you will see a performance advantage when using GPU accelerated Mercury Playback Engine.  In a HD project with color correction, scaled video, and video blends the difference of using the GPU will certainly be the difference between working with interactive video and video that plays far below the target framerate. 

                         

                        To give an example, a high end workstation can encode a simple HD timeline with no cuts and no effects faster than real-time so the encoder is capable of 24-50fps.  Adding effects such as color correction and scaling isn't going to dramatically effect how hard the encoder has to work, but it will significantly effect how much the video has to be processed to be handed off to the video encoder.  If the video cannot be processed fast enough to feed the encoding engine, it becomes the weak link in the chain and will bottleneck your encoding speed.  So when you think about it, if your video is only playing back at 4-10fps in the playback window, there is no way it's going to be able to feed the encoding engine at the 24-50fps that it is capable of.  Additionally the CPU is burdened with the responsibility for preparing the frames and performing the actual encode.  This is where the GPU accelerated Mercury Playback Engine comes into play.  The GPU is able to process the same transformations and effects in real time, which means that in the majority of cases the footage will playback at the 24fps target framerate (assuming 24fps is your target). It's worth noting however that while the GPU is playing back at 24fps, its often capable of faster performance but is limited when viewing by the target framerate (makes no sense to display frames faster than the target framerate).  However, when sent to the encoding engine the frames can be sent as fast as the GPU is capable of sending them, if the GPU is capable of processing the timeline at 50fps, it can feed the encoder at full speed (for the example given above). 

                         

                        So lets say that without GPU acceleration your video plays back at 6fps in the playback window, and with GPU acceleration it plays back in real-time at 24fps, then when handed to the encoder it will be at a minimum 4x faster (although that assumes that the CPU encoding introduces no overhead, which is far from the case). 

                         

                        If you are encoding a project using GPU acceleration and are seeing little improvement there may be a few reasons. 

                        1. Your project isn't particularly complex.  A project the involves straight splice style edits without video processing or enhancement does not stress the CPU or GPU significantly. 
                        2. Your project contains many unaccelerated effects.  Using unaccelerated effects forces that portion of the video to be processed on the CPU regardless of whether GPU Mercury Playback Engine rendering is enabled.
                        3. Your system itself (CPU, Memory, disk access) is the weak link in your encoding chain.  If your system is unable to process a simple HD clip without cuts or effect at close to real-time then it will likely not be able to process frames at the maximum rate the GPU can process and composite the frames to be encoded. 

                         

                        Hopefully this illustrated how the GPU effects the overall encoding process clearly, if not I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have on the subject.

                         

                        Sean

                         

                        Technical Marketing Manager, NVIDIA

                        • 9. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          Many aspects of Premiere Pro are accelerated using the Nvidia GPU (GPU Effects, Scaling, deinterlacing, blending, etc.)

                           

                          I'm just curious here, Sean.  What exactly does the "etc." stand for?

                           

                          According to Todd, there are only four things accelerated by the GPU - some effects, scaling, deinterlacing and blending - all of which you mentioned directly.  So what's left that you need an "etc." for?

                          • 10. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                            the GPU accelerated Mercury Playback Engine accelerates playback and effects processing.

                             

                            Hmmm.  I kind of question this one, also.  Again according to Todd, 'playback' (in the sense of decoding compressed formats) is actually NOT handled by the GPU at all.

                             

                            Which is true?

                            • 11. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                              RacerX2oo3 Level 1

                              Jim,

                               

                              Perhaps I should have specified this information, but it seemed like the post was already getting a big long.

                               

                              Additional areas of GPU acceleration are:  Opacity, motion, video compositing, and color space conversions.  Additionally functions such as text layers and display of time codes are also accelerated.

                               

                              Sean

                              • 12. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                                RacerX2oo3 Level 1

                                Hmmm.  I kind of question this one, also.  Again according to Todd, 'playback' (in the sense of decoding compressed formats) is actually NOT handled by the GPU at all.

                                 

                                Which is true?

                                 

                                Jim,

                                 

                                I have a feeling that we are using this term in very different ways.  When I use the tern "playback" I'm referring to the ability to playback the timeline to the output window.  The GPU is used both to process the desired effects and transforms (assuming the functions are those accelerated by the GPU) and to produce the actual image in the output window. 

                                 

                                As far as video decode is concerned, this is currently solely the function of the CPU as all footage is handed to a CPU path for video decoding.  (Or dedicated HW in a case such as the RED Rocket). 

                                 

                                Sean

                                • 13. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                  Thanks, Sean.

                                   

                                  Opacity and Motion I'd consider as "effects".

                                   

                                  "Video compositing" can cover a lot.  Can you be more specific?  For example, the Garbage Mattes seem to be accelerated, but the Chroma Key effect is not.  (And both come under the already mentioned heading of "effects" anyway.)  Are there other "non-effect" methods of compositing that are accelerated?

                                   

                                  Color space conversion is one that no one has mentioned before.  That's interesting.  Todd, can you confirm?

                                   

                                  Text layers, that probably comes under "blending".  And timecode is an "effect".

                                  • 14. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                                    "Video compositing" can cover a lot.  Can you be more specific?

                                     

                                    Color space conversion is one that no one has mentioned before.  That's interesting.  Todd, can you confirm?

                                     

                                    I suspect the compositing is in reference to everything being converted to 32-bit linear color on the fly, and processing of alpha channels. This is also the cause of the awful glows, shadows, and other soft-edged effects when using GPU acceleration.

                                     

                                    Colorspace conversion has come up somewhere before; I can't find the thread now, but that was one of the "perks" of GPU acceleration.

                                    • 15. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                      Yes, color space conversions are CUDA-accelerated.

                                      • 16. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                        The use of the word 'playback' is confusing. I avoid it.

                                         

                                        That's why I try to talk explicitly about encoding, decoding, rendering, drawing to the screen---the individual and well-defined pieces.

                                         

                                        As has been said a few times here, Premiere Pro CS5 doesn't use CUDA for the encoding and decoding steps.

                                         

                                        Oh, and "blending" is what I've been using to refer to the compositing of one layer/clip over another, given a certain set of channel values. A separate matter is whether the creation of the alpha channel values is CUDA-accelerated, which is the case for some of the effects.

                                        • 17. Re: Quadro 4000 (Fermi) doesn´t perform as it should in Premiere CS5 / AME
                                          RacerX2oo3 Level 1

                                          Jim,

                                           

                                          I think we are getting a bit off track and I'd hate this thread to get bogged down in minutiae and semantics.  By compositing I'm referring to it at its most basic form.  When multiple tracks are layered on top of each other such that objects from various layers are visible at the same time, the GPU is responsible for "compositing" those layers into a flattened format for display.  Certain characteristics of those objects (Alpha Channel for exmaple) may effect how that object is combines with objects below.  In previous versions of Premiere Pro these functions were handled by the CPU.  

                                           

                                          Sean