15 Replies Latest reply on Jan 26, 2011 3:56 AM by Ted Smith

    Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?

    shiffsportsmarketing Level 1

      Ok - sorry for all the questions

       

      As I mentioned in an earlier question - I am editing college football highlights for one particular player.  I am working from full game DVDs (40-60 mins long each) that I have already converted/stored as mp4 files on an external hard drive.  There are approximately 27 of these game videos, and I will only need 5-10 plays out of each file.  (I have been an iMovie user for about 3 years, and just purchased Premiere Elements 9 yesterday - hoping for some additional features).

       

      I have imported a file (entire game), dragged it to the timeline, edited out the plays that I want to use, then delete the rest of the game footage from the timeline. 

       

      - BTW - I am a Mac user.

       

      Is is possible to just capture the plays/clips that I want directly from my DVD drive?  In the "get media" menu - it does say that you can get media from your PC dvd drive.  I tried to do this with one dvd (selected one VOB file from the DVD when it came up on the screen) - but the program locked up.  Possibly just not a feature available on the Mac version?

       

      I am trying to be able to have these individual clips/plays - possibly in the organizer - so that I can tag them with keywords (sacks, tackles, forced fumbles, etc.) and then organize/sort them in my project.

       

      I hope this is making sense -- thank you again for all of your help!

      Kim

        • 1. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
          nealeh Level 5

          One thing you need to be aware of is that no matter how you edit the footage on your timeline PRE never touches the original clip. Instead the project file essentially records actions to be applied to the clip when you share the project.

           

          To create individual clips you would need to edit them on the PRE timeline and Share from there to your preferred archive format (for standard DVD use Computer> AVI). You need to set the start and end point of the Work Area Bar to the range you want as a separate clip, Share it (checking 'Share WorkAreaBar' only), reset the WAB to the next range, Share it ('Share WorkAreaBar' only) etc...

           

          1.png

           

          Cheers,
          --
          Neale
          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

          • 2. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
            shiffsportsmarketing Level 1

            Thanks so much for your input.  I think I understand what you're saying -- I do know that my original files/footage remain intact, just looking for a way to tag these individual clips

             

            There will end up being close to 100 of these clips -- so your suggestion below may just take a while - but at least it looks like it will accomplish what I need it to.

             

            Thanks again!

            Kim

             

            P.S. Love the quote under your name

            • 3. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Kim,

               

              When working from DVD material (not the ultimate, but often it's the best that we have), I do a Capture, but hook my DVD deck to an A-D bridge, that is hooked up to the computer via FireWire.

               

              At this point, let's talk briefly about Capture vs Import. Capture is an operation that uses the Capture module in PrE, and will ONLY work with an appropriate FireWire device. That device could be a miniDV tape deck, an A-D bridge, or even a miniDV camcorder, that has pass-through capabilities. Capture will allow one to ingest the digital, or digitized material into your Project. With Import, one also ingests digital, or digitized material into the Project, but not through the Capture module. This is often done material, such as MPEG-2, such as will be contained in the DVDs' VOB containers, AVCHD from a camera, etc., and is done from material on the computer. FireWired does not figure into this method.

               

              Now, with existing DVD, or VHS material, I have my DVD/VHS deck hooked to the computer through that A-D bridge via FireWire. I can cue up the DVD, or VHS, to just where I wish to start, hit Capture and then Play on the deck. When I have reached the point, where I wish to stop, I just do that in the Capture module, and let the DVD, or VHS play, until I get to the next segment, that I wish to Capture and repeat. This keeps me from having to do that much Trimming, and also will Capture that material as a DV-AVI file, which will edit very smoothly on my PC. I assume that on the Mac, the Capture would result in a MOV file, with an easy to decode CODEC, like Animation, but do not know this for sure. While the program can work with most MPEG-2 files, it needs to do the internal conversion, and this takes resources.

               

              Note: once the original material has been heavily compressed to MPEG-2 (the format/CODEC for DVD's), the original's quality can never be restored. Also, if one is going to DVD output, there WILL be another MPEG-2 conversion. That is why I attempt to go to material before the production of the original DVD, but realize that is not always possible, and then I just live with it.

               

              For what you are doing, I would investigate a setup similar to what I, and many others use, the DVD deck, hooked to either an A-D bridge, or a miniDV videocam, with pass-through capabilities. With a bit of cueing, one can then do the Capture of exactly what they want. That would also address the earlier question about true Sub-Clips from that footage, and will be much quicker, than Importing the full DVD, trimming the footage, and Deleting the remainder. If you do not have a miniDV camera with pass-through, I would consider the Canopus/Grass Valley ADVC-110, or the ADS Pyro unit.

               

              Good luck, and hope that this helps,

               

              Hunt

               

              PS - most mfgrs. of video cameras are dropping pass-through, and most PAL units never had that capability, due to import tariffs on that feature. Some users have acquired used, older cameras, just to use their pass-through capabilities, and do not care if the zoom, or perhaps tape transport systems are faulty. So long as the camera has pass-through, and the general electronics work, things are fine.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                shiffsportsmarketing Level 1

                Thanks so much for the very helpful information.  Image quality loss is a real concern - but as you said, it is what it is .  I've been telling myself for over a year that I don't need a deck, that I don't do enough editing to make all of this worthwhile, and then I always end up wishing I had just bitten the bullet months ago and just gotten the equipment.

                 

                If nothing else -- this first project with Premiere Elements - will certainly teach me a lot!

                 

                Thanks again,

                Kim

                 

                P.S.  Expect to see more questions from me!

                • 5. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Kim,

                   

                  I also just posted to your thread on Tagging the Sub-Clips. If you did the "cue up the DVD and then Capture just what you want with an A-D bridge" method, you CAN get exactly what you want. In the example in the other thread, I just moved the existing Comments Column to the left a bit (you can do it right up next to the Clip Name, if that helps), and filled in the Text Box.

                   

                  If you have that many DVD's, and that many segments to extract, you could pick up the Canopus/Grass Valley ADVC-110, and an inexpensive DVD player (if you don't have one lying about), for less than the time to do the Shares from one DVD, if you charge a fair hourly rate. Also, the ADVC-110 (or equal), will let you Capture VHS tapes, or almost any other analog sources, like the older non-digital Hi-8 tapes. You could even use it to Capture direct from a TV, if it has composite signal connections out.

                   

                  Hope this helps, and good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                    shiffsportsmarketing Level 1

                    So - I can use just an ordinary DVD player and attach it to the ADVC-110 adapter, and this will connect via firewire to my Mac and act as a deck for capturing purposed?  Now THAT is something to think about!

                     

                    This definitely sounds like the way to go -- unfortunately for future projects, as I have to have this one finished on Monday

                     

                    And BTW - did I mention that I VOLUNTEERED to do this highlight video for the football player?  LOL... He's a wonderful young man who I got to know very well over the past two seasons, and want to help him however I can....

                     

                    Thanks again, Hunt -- just please verify that I can actually use just my home DVD player in the setup you suggested...

                     

                    Kim

                    • 7. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      You are correct on how easy it is with equipment that you probably already have, and just the A-D bridge.

                       

                      Hey, maybe the young man will go on to be a top NFL draft choice and remember your efforts, before his fame?

                       

                      Then, he'll spring for the Canopus/Grass Valley ADVC-300 for you...

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                        nealeh Level 5

                        the_wine_snob wrote:

                         

                        When working from DVD material (not the ultimate, but often it's the best that we have), I do a Capture, but hook my DVD deck to an A-D bridge, that is hooked up to the computer via FireWire.

                        Bill,

                         

                        Can you educate me a little here. If DVD starts as digital, won't playing it through the DVD player send it to the bridge as analog? After which the bridge will re-convert to digital output for your PRE capture?

                         

                        It's the intermediate conversion to analog that I'm keen to understand - does it degrade the final quality (I'm guessing not as it's what you do )? Actually it's quite pertinent as I've been dissatisfied with my DVD recorder's MPEG conversion and was wondering about playing it through my ADVC bridge and which video outputs on the recorder would give me the best image to connect to the bridge.

                         

                        Cheers,
                        --
                        Neale
                        Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                        • 9. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                          Ted Smith Level 3

                          Personally I would avoid AD comversion because of the big degredation in picture quality (unless the original is so bad you cant see the difference)

                          This is particularly so if people are going to view them on big wide screen TVs

                           

                          If you make a lot of little seperate fles of the important bits you want as described by others, you can rename these files with the info you want like "FifthPass.avi", "SecondGoal.avi" to solve your other program

                           

                          That way when you make up your project you can easily drag them  in order to the timeline.to insert them where you want them

                          • 10. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                            nealeh Level 5

                            tedsmithau wrote:

                             

                            That way when you make up your project you can easily drag them  in order to the timeline.to insert them where you want them

                            Grumble mode on/

                             

                            Another great feature Adobe threw away in PRE9 was the ability to view the project media pane as large icons so you could drag them around and create a story board!

                             

                            /Grumble Mode Off

                             

                            Cheers,
                            --
                            Neale
                            Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                            • 11. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              There is a slight loss in quality, but most of the loss comes from going to MPEG-2 to begin with. Since PrE and PrPro cannot Capture through HDMI cables, if one wants to cue up and only Capture portions of a DVD, without having to Import the full VOB structure and edit out the desired elements, that small loss is a trade-off, in my estimation. Also remember, if one has MPEG-2, which is GOP, the program will internally convert to full I-frame for editing, so a conversion will be taking place already. By going to DV-AVI, with Capture, that internal processing will be eliminating.

                               

                              In the end, extracting material from a DVD is less than ideal, but if that is all that one has to work with, compromises must be made. In the OP's case, being able to Capture just what is needed offsets the extra steps (which are transparent in the workflow, but which do introduce that extra conversion) of just Importing everything, and editing. Also, the OP wants to have discrete Clips of the segments of the material, so that would require an Export/Share operation to obtain those discrete Clips. The DVD deck to A-D bridge and Capture workflow gets the OP what they want, with few additional steps.

                               

                              Yes, working with the full VOB/MPEG-2 structure would maintain the best quality, such that it is, but there is the internal processing going on, plus the Export/Share operation, after the editing of the full DVD. The best would be to go to the material used to create the DVD, but in this case, it is not possible.

                               

                              Again, compromises must be made somewhere, and I would choose to make those in the ultimate signal, rather than in a convoluted workflow, that will require much more time, against a horrible deadline.

                               

                              Just my opinion,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Ted,

                                 

                                In most cases, I would forgo that suggested workflow too, but given the parameters that the OP requires, the other options will require more work, and also Export/Share operations.

                                 

                                In my studies, the quality hit is not as big, as it might seem. It is far less than the original MPEG-2 compression. Also, remember that if a DVD is the final output, there WILL be another MPEG-2 compression. To me, the two MPEG-2 compressions will pose a much larger problem, but without going to the original source material, it is a trade-off that must be made somewhere.

                                 

                                Probably the ultimate workflow would be to use ripping software to extract the MPEG-2 files, and then Save_As Lagarith Lossless (or UT, another lossless CODEC), and Import the full DVD into PrE. One would then edit and Export/Share to Lagarith Lossless, which would then be Imported into a new PrE Project. There, the edited Lagarith Clips could be cataloged with the Comments Column entries. However, this will take some time, and that is something that the OP does not have now. But, one still has those two MPEG-2 compressions to deal with, and they are unavoidable here.

                                 

                                Again, just my opinion,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Really? What was Adobe thinking here? Did not realize that this was omitted. Many used that function for Storyboard editing.

                                   

                                  Without your comment, I doubt that I'd have noticed, as I seldom, if ever, use Storyboarding. Others, however, will definitely miss it.

                                   

                                  Thanks for the H/U

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                                    shiffsportsmarketing Level 1

                                    tedsmithau wrote:

                                     

                                    Personally I would avoid AD comversion because of the big degredation in picture quality (unless the original is so bad you cant see the difference)

                                    This is particularly so if people are going to view them on big wide screen TVs

                                     

                                    If you make a lot of little seperate fles of the important bits you want as described by others, you can rename these files with the info you want like "FifthPass.avi", "SecondGoal.avi" to solve your other program

                                     

                                    That way when you make up your project you can easily drag them  in order to the timeline.to insert them where you want them

                                    I am so thankful for all of this information from everyone!

                                     

                                    Ted -- can you explain the process you are talking about here? You say, "make a lot of separate files.... rename them.." etc. -- how are you suggesting this be done from one large mp4 file?  Literally starting a new project for each clip? Or doing as nealah had suggested earlier - sharing each clip after being edited out of the whole file - and then bringing it back in?

                                     

                                    Thanks!

                                    Kim

                                    • 15. Re: Video files come from DVDs and are 40-60 mins long - capture vs. import?
                                      Ted Smith Level 3

                                      Sharing method.

                                      The idea is to re-create what an original project might have looked like with lots of seperate files for each action. Like what you would have got if you started and stopped an old  DVtape camera and imported it with the seperate files option instead of one continuous take.

                                       

                                      I am surprised that is not a third party software player that you can easily rip a section out of a DVD in real time and create a seperate AVI file of each section.

                                       

                                      One question about AD conversion, would this have tyo be done in real time, waiting for the section to play while it is converting?

                                      With a lot ov video, importing to PRE, cutting and sharing to seperate files might be quicker because you can do it in fast motion and doesnt need trimming up a second time to get the entry and exit points just right?