11 Replies Latest reply on Feb 5, 2011 5:24 AM by Warrior of Rohan

    Workflow or Logistics

    Warrior of Rohan

      Follow up question to my thread on extracting clips.


      Is it better to create the subclips and just save the project, or should I create the small .AVI files as I originally intended. I am mainly dealing with 2 hour long video's of family events.  I plan to create DVD's of different type of events such as Xmas, Easter etc. I will also make DVD's for each of my three kids of their footage.  When I am ready to burn to DVD's is it better to create a project by bringing in the smaller .AVI files or work from the project that has the subclips?  One problem with the subclips is that the projects will be sorted by year and not by kids so would have to go and get each subclip for each kid. My thought was to create folders for each kid, event etc. and then save the .AVI files into those folders for later editing into a project to burn to DVD.  Makes sense??


      Thanks again.



        • 1. Re: Workflow or Logistics
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Going into this Project, I think that I would Export the individual Sub-Clips, and then create an archive folder structure for each child, then sub-folders by event. Obviously, there will be some cross-over, as more that one of the children will appear in some of the events. With a large external HDD for archiving, I think that I would put a Copy of each of those events in each child's folder structure.


          I would also do a spreadsheet with full details of each Sub-clip, so that I could find exactly what I wanted easily and quickly.


          In a somewhat similar Project (two sisters growing up), I did just about the same thing. Now, in my case, the Project was simplified, as I was just creating DVD for each of the VHS tapes of their childhood. I did a lot of the separation by DVD navigation, so that maybe Tape 20 would have Scene Selections for Child A, Child B and then Child A & B. Each of those "chapters" was done as a separate Sequence in PrPro, and then Imported into Encore as individual Timelines. For access from the Menus, I then did Playlists. The viewer could then choose all of Child A, or all of Child B, or could choose Christmas 1968, or one of several other possibilities. The Assets/Timelines were all unique, but the Playlists allowed me to group, say Sequences 01, 05, 06, and then another Playlist with Sequences 02, 03, 07.


          With my logging sheets, for all 22 VHS tapes, I knew what scenes were contained, where they were later located, their Duration, plus any notes. I started those, during Capture, and then as I edited the Captured material, I kept adding notes, such as dates, descriptions of events depicted, etc. By the time that I began to assemble the Sub-clips, I had a very good idea how they would be used, and possibly tightened in the edits. It also gave me something useful to do during the Captures! Watching things several times saved me hunting and searching later on.


          Good luck, and I am sure that others will have differing ideas.



          • 2. Re: Workflow or Logistics
            Warrior of Rohan Level 1

            Hi Bill:


            I like the idea of the multiple folders and I don't mind have copies of the same clip in multiple folders.  I am thinking about buying a Lacie Big 4TB USB 3.0 drive for archiving.  They also make a 6TB but gets expenive. p the backups so have to decide how to set them up. They have removable drives or I can set them up in a RAID 1 which has mirroring but then I lose half my drive size.  Any thoughts on what video professionals use for mass storage?


            Thanks again for all the help.



            • 3. Re: Workflow or Logistics
              Pijetro Level 1

              Okay, what is the source footage?

              If it's tape, then you've already got your archive answered. Simply label the tapes for future capturing.


              If it's flash card, keep the interesting bits, and export as AVI to an external drive...You could create a new sequence for each subclip, and go to AME, and do a batch export...Heck, make a copy to your internal hard drive..

              As long as you're not recompressing the footage, then you're fine...


              But you need to give a bit more information...This is the type of project that takes a long time to fulfill...I've captured all my kids' footage, and backed up to a single external drive..When i'm ready, (like maybe their wedding day in 15 years  ), i can sift through the footage and keep what's golden..

              • 4. Re: Workflow or Logistics
                Warrior of Rohan Level 1

                Original footage is tape so always have that.


                Between lots of video and photographs thought it good to have big reliable backup.


                I thought it was all golden :-)


                Thanks for the help.



                • 5. Re: Workflow or Logistics
                  the_wine_snob Level 9



                  I use a RAID NAS for media storage, but Copy the files over to either my internal HDD's, or to my FW-800 externals, when I plan on migrating Projects between computers.


                  I have not tested USB 3.0's, but think that Harm Millaard has some benchmarks. USB 2.0's are great for just the archiving, but not for editing to/from. I tested FW-400's and found them to be too slow, so settled on FW-800's. An eSATA would be even better. Just do not know the real-world results with USB 3.0's,sorry.


                  Good luck,



                  • 6. Re: Workflow or Logistics
                    Harm Millaard Level 7
                    Any thoughts on what video professionals use for mass storage?


                    They often use SAN, but that tends to get expensive very quickly. Just look at HP Storageworks to know what I mean.


                    A more affordable solution is a NAS using dual gigabit NIC's and iSCSI. Both Thecus and QNAP have 7 or 8 disk models with swappable bays with nice features like redundant PSU's and hot-swappable fans. The most common approach would be either raid5 plus a hot-spare, or raid6, all in combination with a UPS.

                    • 7. Re: Workflow or Logistics
                      Warrior of Rohan Level 1

                      Harm, thanks for the suggestions.  Did some research on Thecus and QNAP. I think they are more than I need.  I just need a reliable, large capacity backup disk.  I do not plan to work on files while on the disks as I have a 2TB hard drive on my machine for data and (2) 300GB drives in RAID for applications.  The Lacie 6TB seemed like it would have more than enough storage and can be set to RAID 1 for reduncacy.  Its still about $ 650 but ought to hold me for a long while and supports USB 3.0. I am just an ametuer so not sure I need somethig as sophisticated as the NAS storage.  Do you have any experiecne with Lacie drives or recommend another brand?  Lacie was the only one i found that supports USB 3.0.


                      Thanks as always.



                      • 8. Re: Workflow or Logistics
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        You know, Seagate was successful in destroying their reputation of reliable disks with the 7200.11 range. They have since then recovered from that catastrophe with the 7200.12 range, but the damage is done. LaCie has also earned a rather bad reputation with their externals. I haven't followed recent developments, since - like Seagate - they are out for me. Maybe they have improved reliability, maybe not.


                        I would not be concerned about USB 3.0, since they still are slower than eSATA, and are still hampered by the shared bandwidth. The more USB3 devices attached, the slower they get.


                        BTW, with a NAS solution there is no need to populate all the drive bays. Instead of using all 7 or 8 bays, you can also use only 4 or 5 but still have room to grow.

                        • 9. Re: Workflow or Logistics
                          Colin Brougham Level 6



                          I picked up one of these Raidon 4-bay external RAID enclosures and four Samsung F4 2TB drives for a client, and it's worked really well. I'm running it in RAID 5 which gives me about 6TB of storage, it's reasonably fast (over eSATA, anyway) and I can lose a drive without losing material. I'm actually picking up another one of these combos this week; the first one we got was about $750 total, but now is just about $650.


                          It's really easy to put together, too: just screw the drives into the sleds, insert them into the enclosure, and turn it on. The enclosure will automatically build the RAID 5 with no other intervention required. This combo was endorsed by Eric at ADK, and it's performed admirably.

                          • 10. Re: Workflow or Logistics
                            Warrior of Rohan Level 1

                            Thanks for the informatrion on the Raidon enclosure. When I went to their website they now have it available in a USB 3.0 interface as well.  But have not been able to find it available at any stores yet.  May wait a bit until I start to run out of space or bite the bullet and do it now.  Really like the idea of the reduncancy. Thanks for the help.



                            • 11. Re: Workflow or Logistics
                              Warrior of Rohan Level 1

                              I bought the Raidon USB 3.0 unity and 4 Samsung drives. Installed fine. (I think).


                              I use a program called "Syncback SE" to do my backups. Have used if for years.  When I went to back up my C drive (about 120gb)  it ran all night and said over three days remaining.  When I ran this backup to a 1TB WD drive it tool about 26 minutes.  Please tell me a RAID 5 setup is not this slow.  Hopefully something is wrong somewhere.


                              Thanks for the help.