8 Replies Latest reply: Mar 10, 2011 6:41 PM by Stan Jones RSS

    How does Encore calculate encoded size of pre-encoded assets???

    SupersoulVP Community Member

      No matter how I look at these numbers, they don't add up.

       

      The actual files sitting on my local drive (all blu-ray compliant) have a size of:

      10.9900  (.h264 encoded video)

      00.8892  (.wav stereo file)

      00.2591  (.ac3 surround file)

      12.1383 GB

       

      In the Properties tab in Encore CS5, the file sizes are:

      10.200

      00.847

      00.247

      11.294 GB

       

      When the timeline is highlighted in the Timelines tab, the "Encoded Size" reads as:

      13.64 GB

       

      This glaring difference is repeated for all the timelines, making the disc info read over 28 GB!  All the Video assets should add up to be just over 20 GB.  All audio assets should be around 1.9 GB.  On a previous test build of the project, the motion menu m2v's added up to 1.4 GB.  I thought it'd be good to leave a little overhead just so Encore wouldn't flip out, but it did.  I gave it a go just to see if it would burn, but naturally it failed because of the disc being too large.

       

      I would appreciate any insight or suggestions.

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: How does Encore calculate encoded size of pre-encoded assets???
          Stan Jones CommunityMVP

          I'm not doing bluray yet, but am trying to understand the various oddities reported.

           

          Make sure that part of the issue is not the way GB are stated.  When you look at the file properties (Windows 7 I assume?  should make no difference), track the bytes in addition to the GB.  I assume this is not the issue.

           

          A month or two ago, someone stated here that Encore adds 10 percent to the size for overhead or somesuch.  Does that account for the difference?

           

          I suggest doing a test project, two timelines, about the size of your current one.  One will have no chapters (other than the mandatory, default chapter one).  The other will have one chapter about midway.  Make one menu that has 4 buttons to play timeline one, timeline 2, and, from timeline 2, chapter 1 and chapter 2.  (Someone suggested that Encore is creating separate timelines on disk for chapters?  Or was it chapter playlists?)  Have no playlists.  As you build this project, track all the sizes you have described.

           

          Build to a folder.  Now add the actual sizes on "disk" to your sizes.  (I guess you'd have to play each file in the build to see what it is.)  Report back!

          • 2. Re: How does Encore calculate encoded size of pre-encoded assets???
            JSS1138 CommunityMVP

            I've seen similar with DVDs.  Never did discover where the extra "overhead" came from.

            • 3. Re: How does Encore calculate encoded size of pre-encoded assets???
              SupersoulVP Community Member

              Hey Stan.  I have yet to actually do the test that you suggest.  I'm sure you can appreciate with deadlines fast approaching, its all about getting the project done.  I ended up re-ecoding ALL the video elements with a lower data rate, and still just barely got under 25 GB according to the "Disc Info", even though there is no way it should of been even close.

               

              I got some interesting numbers, that don't make any sense, when comparing the mounted blu-ray to what my project was telling me.

               

              According to Encore (CS5), there was 24.66 GB used, with 343.9 MB free.

               

              The total file size of the BDMV folder on the burned disc was 21.73 GB.  This was at least reasonably close to the sum of the video/audio elements (19.06 GB) and the motion menu m2v's (1.47 GB).

               

              I could accept a GB or so needed for whatever else Encore needs to do with pop-up menus and other stuff, but based on how the files sizes are out of whack once brought into a project, it seems to not really be letting a user maximize a disc to the full extent.

              • 4. Re: How does Encore calculate encoded size of pre-encoded assets???
                Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                Yes, work often interferes with play and experimentation!

                According to Encore (CS5), there was 24.66 GB used, with 343.9 MB free.

                 

                The total file size of the BDMV folder on the burned disc was 21.73 GB.  This was at least reasonably close to the sum of the video/audio elements (19.06 GB) and the motion menu m2v's (1.47 GB).

                Ten percent of 21.73 is 2.17, and that total (i.e. the amount with a10 percent overhead) is 23.9.  Still less than the 24.66 projected by Encore.

                 

                The "extra" was 2.93, which is about 13.5 percent.

                 

                I don't recall the source (which said Encore was, by design, adding 10 percent overhead), but it certainly appears that Encore is predicting a larger size than you get.  And yes, this would create problems with maxing datarate.

                • 5. Re: How does Encore calculate encoded size of pre-encoded assets???
                  zorrocbr Community Member

                  Another "oddity" regarding file size:

                   

                  Because I have sync issues taking larger AVCHD files from VideoStudio Pro into Encore CS5, I break down a one hour 24 minute asset into about 10 smaller pieces.  This solves the sync issues, but because the 1:24 is now composed of 10 smaller files rather than one large file, when on One timeline in Encore the Encore project becomes a little larger.  I am being "charged" for the privilege of using smaller assets.  The overall length on the timeline is the same though.

                  • 6. Re: How does Encore calculate encoded size of pre-encoded assets???
                    Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                    Because I have sync issues taking larger AVCHD files from VideoStudio Pro into Encore CS5, I break down a one hour 24 minute asset into about 10 smaller pieces.  This solves the sync issues, but because the 1:24 is now composed of 10 smaller files rather than one large file, when on One timeline in Encore the Encore project becomes a little larger.  I am being "charged" for the privilege of using smaller assets.  The overall length on the timeline is the same though.

                    I realize this is a workaround for you, but it makes sense that putting multiple gop type files on one timeline would come with some file size penalty.  I think this sometimes results in other problems, but it is working for you!

                    • 7. Re: How does Encore calculate encoded size of pre-encoded assets???
                      brian.jahns

                      So I am encountering what is essentially the same issue. I encoded an m4v out of Adobe Media Encoder CS5, using the best settings I can get. It took about twenty hours. The resulting file is 22.4 GBs. This is for an archive of a feature done here at my work so we want the best, or really good quality, so we opted to use a constant bit rate of 35 MBps.

                       

                      Basically I bring in the file, and as soon as I add it to a timeline the project size goes up to 27.4 GB. Encore is automatically adding 5 GBs.

                       

                      I am giving it a try to see if it somehow just burns regardless, but am not too hopeful. I'm thinking there may be nothing to do but re-encode... anyone know of any other options?

                      • 8. Re: How does Encore calculate encoded size of pre-encoded assets???
                        Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                        As an archive, why don't you just burn it to disk instead of authoring as a bluray?

                         

                        I assume you are getting a "do not transcode" on the bluray transcode status; true?

                         

                        We have heard (I don't think we ever got confirmation) that Encore adds some amount (was it as high as 10%) to the projected size to manage  problems.  What do  you actually get when you burn to disk?

                         

                        Some users have reported that Encore creates multiple timelines when seeing chapters (or some such).  Do you have any chapters?  What do you see when you burn to disk?