8 Replies Latest reply on Feb 2, 2011 11:27 PM by KCWY_News_13

    CS5 DV capture/playback problems  "Feel like I am hitting my head on a wall"

    KCWY_News_13

      Ok, I am still trying to get our commercial production editor working as intended so our creative services person can make the full switch to the new machine.  Right now he is half editing on his 7 year old Pinnacle Liquid system that is dying.  My fear is a Hard drive will fail again in that old thing and he won't be ready to fully edit on this New system...

       

      Up till now in my other posts I have had issues with Playback and capture problems with a Blackmagic SDI card.  Not sure if it is incompatibility with my motherboard or lack of support from Blackmagic but playback was dropping frames if we used GPU acceleration. We also had the problems of pixel shift when doing dissolves on the timeline that are documented on Creative Cow as an ongoing problem that Blackmagic seems unwilling to fix. Also had problems with long format captures....

       

      My system is currently as follows:

       

      Asus P6T7 Supercomputer

      i7-950 CPU

      12 GB memory tripple channel

      500 GB 7200 RPM boot drive

      3 1 TB drives in a Raid 5 (2 TB usable space) for scratch  (originally had 4 1 TB in Raid 0, one died and is out for warranty)

       

      Out of frustration with the blackmagic card, and the fact that we are only editing to/from DVCAM SD, I decided to pull the card and go to a simple FireWire setup as that is what our newsrooms use to DSR-11 and DSR-25 decks.

       

      Because This editor uses a DSR-1800 full size deck and was always tied to the Pinnacle via SDI/AES, I wanted to stay in that format. This was why I chose the Decklink SDI in the first place.

       

      I picked up a used Firewire card for the DSR-1800. ($299 off of e-bay, originally a $1500 card)

      I figured if this worked I could sell the Decklink SDI and be about even.

       

      Now with the Decklink uninstalled and the firewire card connected, we are having new problems...

       

      The capture from DV works as normal, but when you hit stop on a capture there is a very long delay.. 20 seconds to 3-5 minutes before premiere will pop up the "name this clip"...  this does not happen on the DSR-11/25 decks in news.(they are much slower AMD Phenome II systems with 4 GB memory)

       

      When I playback to the DSR-1800, it takes the deck 10-20 seconds to switch back to the iLink input.  He switches the deck back and forth to other inputs for dub over from DVD and when he edits on the Liquid system.  once it switches it plays fine....

       

       

      Has anyone have experience editing from a DSR-1800 over firewire?  I knew the option was there but have no experience using this setup.

       

      I don't have any idea what would cause the major delay from the time we hit stop on a capture.  No frames are dropped in the capture window and everything else seems to be working fine.  We are not using deck control just clicking record and play on the deck and then stopping the capture when we are done.

       

      The other problem, I wanted him to be able to use the $1600 Quadro 4800 video card so all renders would be quick and he would not have to wait like he did on the liquid system (everything rendered...)

       

      The blackmagic Decklink SDI would drop frames playing out SD-SDI.  I know SD-SDI is uncompressed format and I guess the issue could be just not enough disk speed to feed that output or there is a bottleneck in the PCIe buss.  But now I found that DV does not allow GPU either, so he can't play the timeline with the GPU acceleration on at all.  What a waste of $1600 on that video card if he can never use it!!!!!!

       

      So as you can see I feel stuck.  Can't seem to get any answers from Adobe or Blackmagic.  now the budget has been slashed for this year and there is probably no chance I can try new hardware on anything...

       

      At this point I may switch back to the Decklink card and add another hard drive to put the windows page file on. Harm has said load balancing across the system will speed things up.

       

      My OS disk is much slower as a single 500 GB than the raid 0 was when I used the disk speed test.  Sorry for such a long post but more information should help people know all I am dealing with..

       

      Thank you,

       

      Mark

        • 1. Re: CS5 DV capture/playback problems  "Feel like I am hitting my head on a wall"
          ufomagnet

          Just a long shot; The Asus P6T7 is probably using a firewire controller-chip from VIA. They are known to cause lots of weird errors with DV/HDV-devices. Maybe you should try to test the same workflow with the gear attached to a PCI-firewire card that's using a Texas Instruments firewire controller-chip instead? Like I said, it's a long shot but I've had loads of problems with the VIA-controllers together with camcorders, tapedecks and even harddrives in both desktop computers and laptops.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: CS5 DV capture/playback problems  "Feel like I am hitting my head on a wall"
            Daxman1965 Level 1

            Hi,

             

            did you run the blackmagic disk speed test, that should tell you if the raid setup is fast enough. I am using the BM ultrastudio pro usb3 and it works like a charm.8bit or 10 bit uncompressed but my raid5 is fast 8 x 1tb.

             

            regards

             

            Darren

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: CS5 DV capture/playback problems  "Feel like I am hitting my head on a wall"
              KCWY_News_13 Level 1

              Ufomagnet,  I like what your thinking but we ended up using our DSR-250 Camera as a Firewire deck when we needed to capture 3 long tapes of a concert that was failing when we tried via the blackmagic card. We didn't have any of these issues when captureing from the DVCAM camera.

               

              I think the firwire is working ok on the PC it is an Intel chipset and so I don't think any VIA is in there but you never know. Can't seem to find reference to what controls the iEEE1394 port.  Might have a dedicated chip on the board for it.  Only stupid thing is there is only one header for it.  They gave a backplate, but my case has a front connector too...

               

              The other big issue with using firewire is I don't have GPU help.  The whole reason we spent the money on the Quadro card is we wanted to not have to wait for Renders of effects and transitions.

               

              I am now thinking I will have to go back to the Decklink SDI but will need to get all the I/O from the disk at maximum.

              • 4. Re: CS5 DV capture/playback problems  "Feel like I am hitting my head on a wall"
                KCWY_News_13 Level 1

                Darren, I did run that test when we were using the 4TB Raid 0 for Scratch.  The raid was much faster than the boot drive.  I also found that he had some files on the C: drive.  He has a Share on there with Photo's and logo's he works on in Photoshop.

                 

                I am wondering if I should have two Raids.  One Raid 0 with two 250 GB drives for Boot, and then Raid 5 for the other three 1TB drives giving a 2 TB Scratch.   That way there is some redundancy for scratch material. Only problem with that plan is if either Raid0 drive fails I lose the OS/installation...

                 

                Probably follow Harm's Drive setup advice and put the OS on 1 drive and have the Raid 5 for the others but move the Page file to either another spare drive or the Raid 5 array.

                 

                I also think his Media Cache is in the default space(hidden in common files under the user on the C: drive) knowing that is all the conforming audio files and such, it is probably causing the dropped frames when playing through the SDI out with GPU acceleration.  GPU off and rendering always worked other than the shift of a frame when doing dissolves.

                 

                I think that with optimising the services through Win7 and turning off anything we don't need.

                 

                We are on a Domain and that automatically installs the Enterprise Antivirus. Does that cause problems?  Also he runs as a user, should running as an Admin be a must?  The main reason it is on the Domain is so he can have his e-mail accessible but that is not a big issue.  What do you recommend?

                 

                I can remove from the Domain and have this a stand alone machine if that will allow me to turn off more stuff, and stop the anti-virus from running realtime scanning. Is there an antivirus you recommend? I usually like AVG free or Avast, and with these you can turn off the realtime and only have them run while at night when the system is not being used.

                • 5. Re: CS5 DV capture/playback problems  "Feel like I am hitting my head on a wall"
                  Daxman1965 Level 1

                  I would have one drive for OS, 4 x 1tb raid 0 and use the raid for all of the projects files, music, photo's cache files every thing the same way you run the ppbm5. get rid of the antivirus and use another machine for emails. back up projects on a external drive or another internal.

                  • 6. Re: CS5 DV capture/playback problems  "Feel like I am hitting my head on a wall"
                    KCWY_News_13 Level 1

                    I had the 4 TB Raid 0 and one of the drives was bad.  I was able to copy all the content we needed off and

                    remove the offending drive.  Because we really don't need that much space all the time I rebuilt the array with the three drives as a Raid 5. Now I have not tested the speed of this array as compared to what the Raid 0 was.   It seems to be doing well with the FireWire based link, but I still don't have the GPU acceleration available.  Is there any way to have the GPU output via DV? If not I may tune the system down like you all recommend to just the editor, not on the domain, no realtime antivirus, Windows services scaled back to just necessary and such.

                     

                    This motherboard supports SAS drives.  I am not sure if I can have them as a boot drive as I think the manual said they are only available via Windows when the Raid is active on the Intel Controller.  So if that is the case should I have the SAS drives as my edit drives.  I know those drives are more expensive, but you can have a lot of drives with expanders on the SAS controller.  Anybody using SAS on the Asus PT67 WS Supercomputer board?  I know a few of you are using this board too according to the PPBM5 page.

                     

                    Thanks,

                    • 7. Re: CS5 DV capture/playback problems  "Feel like I am hitting my head on a wall"
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      Bill's latest results with SAS drives will be published shortly. 147 G 15K SAS drives, including a 6 disk array.

                      • 8. Re: CS5 DV capture/playback problems  "Feel like I am hitting my head on a wall"
                        KCWY_News_13 Level 1

                        The system seems to be working well now.  The problem with capture from DV taking a while to finish has gone away on it's own.  I was digging around and found the Intel Storage controller was rebuilding the Raid 5, not sure why it was doing that as there were never any errors that I know of.  Do they rebuild every so often or is that a sign another disk may be bad?  I have the one that was replaced under warranty.  Might keep an eye on the array, if another one is showing issues, it may be failing.

                         

                        I think if the array was performing badly if it was in rebuild and that is why capture was slow, it was waiting for the drive to write the files.. Either way the unit is working via DV but still will not let us use the GPU acceleration.

                         

                        Did Adobe ever plan to allow GPU acceleration output to DV or are they not bothering as so many are moving away from tape?

                         

                        Thanks for everyone's idea's and help as we work through this.

                         

                        When I have time I may go back to Blackmagic card if I can work through some other issues.  Want him to be able to Render on the fly.. Saves time.