6 Replies Latest reply on Jan 29, 2011 7:50 AM by Colin Brougham

    PREMIERE PRO cs3 & cs5 - audio out of synch by 6 frames after export

    adzatpew

      i have never had formal training on adobe premiere, and therefore when i am working with my students it is basically down to expereince i have gained by myself.

       

      with cs3, we always worked on the basis that it would always export the audio out of synch with the video by 6 frames so they would routinely have the audio tracks on two separate tracks, one for editing and one for exporting which was offset +6 frames.

       

      when we made the transition to cs5 and new kit i was stunned to see that the synch issues were still there. and since a quick google yielded very little evidence that others shared this issue i thought it must be something i am doing wrong after years of bad habits learned on the fly.

       

      so here is my workflow, where am i going wrong and why is it always out of synch?

       

      open cs5

      choose an editing format. (this varies but the synch issue is always the same)

      import content

      edit

      export (normally as a microsoft avi, with no compression which i later convert into quicktime compressed with ANIMATION)

       

      i teach on an animation course so normally the content we import is a sequence of stills such as jpg or tiff, but we also capture stuff on dslrs too

      the timeline colour is normally yellow, which is fine at standard def, but larger def we will render workspace to turn it green

       

      the editing format depends on our target format. the current project is 720 hd

       

      the export as avi with no compressor i suspect to be a weak link in this work flow, but the problem remains if i export as anything else so....

       

      now as an additional point on the matter, the current project we have had people miming to an audio clip which we played live for their performance. the audio blips were aligned on the timeline with the audio blips from the edit

       

      but after rendering out, the footage is out of synch by 6 frames. it has always been this way.

       

      any thoughts? i know i must be doing something wrong, but the issue is consistant across different computer, running different OS and different versions of PREM...so either i am doing it wrong or premiere is fundamentally broke.....i suspect its me though

        • 1. Re: PREMIERE PRO cs3 & cs5 - audio out of synch by 6 frames after export
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Read Bill Hunt on a file type as WRAPPER http://forums.adobe.com/thread/440037?tstart=0
          What is a CODEC... a Primer http://forums.adobe.com/thread/546811?tstart=0
          What CODEC is INSIDE that file? http://forums.adobe.com/thread/440037?tstart=0

           

          Once you know the codec details, you create a project sequence that 100% matches what yout have

           

          For PC http://www.headbands.com/gspot/ or http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en
          For Mac http://mediainfo.massanti.com/

           

          Work through all of the steps (ideas) listed at http://forums.adobe.com/thread/459220?tstart=0
          .
          If your problem isn't fixed after you follow all of the steps, report back with ALL OF THE DETAILS asked for in the FINALLY section at the troubleshooting link

          • 2. Re: PREMIERE PRO cs3 & cs5 - audio out of synch by 6 frames after export
            Jim_Simon Level 8
            the editing format depends on our target format. the current project is 720 hd

             

            That's not correct.  The sequence should match your media, not your desired output.

            • 3. Re: PREMIERE PRO cs3 & cs5 - audio out of synch by 6 frames after export
              adzatpew Level 1

              that makes sense

               

              so if i am using mixed media types as in this thing im doing now, i would create a sequence for the dslr stuff, a sequence for the stills sequences etc

               

              and then drag those sequences down onto a common sequence? or would i need to convert everything to be using the same format?

               

              what is the correct sequence setup for working with stills sequences?

              • 4. Re: PREMIERE PRO cs3 & cs5 - audio out of synch by 6 frames after export
                Colin Brougham Level 6

                While Jim is technically correct that that would be the normal workflow, it's not a hard-and-fast rule. I edit 1080/24p DSLR footage in a 720/30p DVCPROHD sequence and export to a 480/60i MOV all the time--no major issues to speak of.

                 

                The workflow you're describing would work, I suppose, but seems needlessly complex. It makes much more sense to pick a sequence preset/setting that is the lowest common denominator of your collected footage. In my example above, the "lowest level" footage I have is DVCPROHD 720/24p, but the station I deliver to needs 720/30p, and another uses SD. There is no specific sequence setting you should use for your stills, either--pick one that jives with the rest of your footage.

                 

                I think the bigger question here is how you are playing back the export and measuring the audio sync problem. I'd look more at the playback software than the editing or encoding software as the culprit. You mentioned encoding to QuickTime Animation; are you playing back with QuickTime Player? I've frequently encountered what appears to be out-of-sync issues when playing back an MOV in QT Player; other playback software doesn't show the problem. The fact that you've changed editing software and, I'm assuming, hardware and the problem persists, suggests an issue in your workflow which you HAVEN'T changed.

                 

                Also, you mention exporting an uncompressed AVI which you later compress with QT Animation; does the OOS issue exist before that conversion?

                • 5. Re: PREMIERE PRO cs3 & cs5 - audio out of synch by 6 frames after export
                  adzatpew Level 1

                  is there a logical reason for opting for a preset which is the lowest common denominator rather than a highest? is it not better to work at the best res possible?

                   

                  does it matter either way? because i have often created 1080p content and worked in a 1024/576 edit environment only to later export at 1080p with no loss of quality?

                   

                  i create the avi and then open this in quicktime to export to the desired formats.

                   

                  now that you posted that comment i cant believe i have never done the simple trouble shoot of 'at what point does it go out of synch'

                   

                  files are too big to playback uncompressed though.

                   

                  i know it is a workflow issue and not a prem issue because no one else seems to have the problem.

                   

                  im going to run some tests

                   

                  thanks, will report back

                  • 6. Re: PREMIERE PRO cs3 & cs5 - audio out of synch by 6 frames after export
                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                    is there a logical reason for opting for a preset which is the lowest common denominator rather than a highest? is it not better to work at the best res possible?

                     

                    Yes. If I have 1080p and 720p assets to mix in one project/sequence, then I use the best sequence setting I can doesn't involve me enlarging any of the assets. In this, I use a 720p sequence setting, because it's far better to decrease the size of assets with larger dimensions than it is to increase the size of assets with smaller dimensions. And since I don't have to export anything at 1080 (for this particular project/sequence anyway), it makes no sense to increase the size of assets just to make them smaller again. If I had only 1080p assets to work with, I'd use a 1080p sequence, even if the destination is not 1080p.

                     

                    Basically, you have to consider three "zones": your incoming assets (which may be a mix of different things), your working sequence settings (where you'd usually try to strike a balance between the various parameters of the incoming assets), and your desired output format destination or destinations. This used to be a much easier proposition, since we were limited on our source material properties, our working sequence properties, and our destination formats, but in contemporary media production, you're dealing with a digital cornucopia. It sounds like you're already accustomed to this and recognize it; it just takes a little bit of forethought and planning (and a healthy dose of testing) to come up with a good combination and workflow.

                     

                    does it matter either way? because i have often created 1080p content and worked in a 1024/576 edit environment only to later export at 1080p with no loss of quality?

                     

                    I don't see how that would be possible. The only conceivable way this would work is if you did absolutely no scaling on the original 1080p content in the 1024x576 sequence, and then on export, you floated the 1024x576 sequence in the middle of a 1080p output file. The output would be cropped, however.

                     

                    Think of it this way: if you had an 8x10 photo, made a photocopy on 3x5 paper, and then made an enlargement from that 3x5 to another 8x10, you'd see some artifacting. When resolution is lost, it's lost forever.

                     

                    i create the avi and then open this in quicktime to export to the desired formats.

                     

                    You can export to a lot of different formats--including QuickTime--directly from Premiere/AME without the intermediate.

                     

                    now that you posted that comment i cant believe i have never done the simple trouble shoot of 'at what point does it go out of synch'

                     

                    See if you can do the above (export directly) and avoid the out-of-sync issue.

                     

                    files are too big to playback uncompressed though.

                     

                    There are better playback formats than uncompressed AVI or even QuickTime Animation. Using H.264, for example, will give you a great deal of flexibility, smaller file sizes, and ready playback.