10 Replies Latest reply on Feb 5, 2011 4:21 PM by Andrew Yoole

    Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?

    StreetwiseCreative Level 1

      I have a 24minute project that I created in CS5. It's 1280x720 and 30936 frames.  The intent is to use it as source video in Premerie Pro where I'll be adding music and some minor titles.  The piece will need to be burned to DVD (sadly) and projected in a auditorium. So with all that, I'm wondering what the most efficient means for rendering the comp would be? I like to create in HD when possible as you never know how something might be used down the road.

       

      I started exporting the comp as an .avi. I was 1% into the render and already the file was a massive 7GB. So I stopped as there's no way I can manage files that large.

       

      Currently, I'm rendering out in H.264 and at 50% in size (720). But at the 6% mark, the m4v file is only 5MB, and the aac file is1MB.

       

      Since either method is telling me that the render is going to take 16hrs, I can't afford to have to do it again - just spot fixes as needed.  Will the H.264 method get me what I need? Is there a more preferred way to make a source comp for PremierePro?

       

      My machine is running Windows7 64-bit and has a 6-core 1090T chip and 8GB of ram. I'm using NucleoPro3 for the render. Still though, 16 hours?

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?
          Dave LaRonde Level 6

          Still though, 16 hours?

           

          Oh, sure.  I can think of lots of situations where it could happen. Common things that slow a render are REALLY big layers with effects on them, multiple lights, 3D layers that cast shadows, certain effects like Remove Grain, or Motion Blur.  That's a partial list.  If you combine all those things, you're really talkin' slow renders!

           

          So how about a codec?  You could always use the codec of any video you edited together in Premiere.  I don't know much about codecs in Windows-land, but if you have Quicktime 7.6.8 or later, I have a good candidate: ProRes HQ.  Darned lear lossless -- which is good -- but still smaller file sizes than uncompressed.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?
            bogiesan-gyyClL Level 3

            While you don't know how tis will be used in the future, you know exactly where it's going now so just stick with those parameters as your output size. You can always render it again at larger size later.  However, that requires that you built your project to be scaled. And you probably didn't. But all you need to do is export to a 720-wide format for now. You  still need time to encode to MPEG2 for the DVD. You cannot render to H.264 effieicntly because of the heavy processing required for the extreme compression, you render out of AE to a full-field codec and then transcode to other, more efficient codecs for distribution.

             

            We don't know what you're doing in AE that needs 24 minutes of effects and motion graphics all in one piece of footage but that's a fundamental mistake lots of newbies make and it sounds like it's too late to rebuild your workflow.

             

            Reducing several of your processor intensive effects like motion blur and anything that looks ahead or behind in time will dramatically increase your rendering efficiency.

             

            bogiesan

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?
              TimeRemapper Level 4
              I have a 24minute project...and 30936 frames.

              What frame rate are you using?

              The piece will need to be burned to DVD (sadly) and projected in a auditorium. So with all that, I'm wondering what the most efficient means for rendering the comp would be

              Since you're going to DVD, the most efficient way to go would be to create an NTSC (or PAL, depending on your standard) DV Widescreen comp using the preset, and nest your 1280x720 comp inside of it, reducing the size appropriately (fit frame). Then, you'd be best off rendering to an intermediate codec (Quicktime movie with PNG compression), and then using that intermediate movie to create an mpeg2 file for DVD using 2-pass VBR compression (you can use AME for this, or any encoder of choice). Rendering a DV comp should create a smaller uncompressed/lossless file due to the smaller frame size. When time/storage permits, you can always go back to your project and render the HD version.

               

              Edit: looks like bogiesan and I were dueling banjos and he beat me out of the gate.

              • 4. Re: Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?
                StreetwiseCreative Level 1

                I'm working with a comp from RevoStock that's pretty intensive. I looked at the various codecs available to me and don't see prores. So I think I'll let this current render finish up and then try Time Remapers advice of creating a smaller comp and rendering that out. I'm using a frame rate of 24 for the project.

                 

                So let me ask: with 15hrs remaining, would I be better off ending it now and do as you suggest with the smaller comp and full field render?

                 

                Thanks.

                • 5. Re: Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?
                  TimeRemapper Level 4
                  So let me ask: with 15hrs remaining, would I be better off ending it now and do as you suggest with the smaller comp and full field render?

                  I'd say definitely.

                   

                  I'm working with a comp from RevoStock that's pretty intensive.

                  What version of AE are you using? 8 GB of RAM probably isn't enough to use multiple cores efficiently. You may want to skip Nucleo here.

                   

                  I'm using a frame rate of 24 for the project.

                  Make sure that you conform to whichever standard you'll end up with. PAL is 25 fps, and NTSC is 29.97. DVD players can handle 23.98 (I'm pretty sure) and instigate pulldown, but make sure you author it accordingly.

                   

                  Also, since you'll be projecting, you could render progressive (not interlaced) and save some time.

                   

                  Also, you mention the word "export" instead of "render". You are using the render queue, right?

                  • 6. Re: Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?
                    StreetwiseCreative Level 1

                    So I'm on my way to a DV widescreen 29.97 QT render with PNG codec @ 100% spacial. Looks like an 11GB file to work with to create the MPEG file from. I think that's doable (hopefully).

                     

                    I'm running 10.1 (CS5). So you're saying I might have better luck turning off NucleoPro and render it out with multicores enabled naitavely? Interesting.

                     

                    As a side, it looks like its still going to take 15 hours on this. I wonder if that would be faster?

                    • 7. Re: Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?
                      TimeRemapper Level 4
                      So you're saying I might have better luck turning off NucleoPro and render it out with multicores enabled naitavely?

                      I'm thinking that multiprocessing in general may be a bonk either way here. Ideally, you'd want a minimum of 2GB per background process. I'm not convinced you have enough RAM installed to see a real benefit from either Nucleo Pro or AE's innate multiprocessing (keep in mind that the OS wants at least 2GB, and the foreground instance does as well). The mileage you get with multiprocessing will vary depending on the project you're trying to render. I'd say try disabling all multiprocessing, and see what the estimated render time is with just the foreground instance. Also, estimated remaining times are always just that...estimates. If the first few frames are a complex effect, the estimate may drop significantly as soon as you progress past that effect.

                      • 8. Re: Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?
                        StreetwiseCreative Level 1

                        Slightly OT, but if I upgraded to 16GB of RAM, would I notice a difference for this type of work using NucleoPro or multicore rendering?

                        • 9. Re: Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?
                          TimeRemapper Level 4

                          I'm inclined to say absolutely. But, you should read this thread from this forum's FAQ section regarding memory and performance.

                          • 10. Re: Acceptible output format for intermediate Video clip?
                            Andrew Yoole MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                            If you're using any GPU-dependent effects, such as Magic Bullet Looks, Knoll Lens Flare (with GPU activated) etc, OR if you're using any temporally dependent effects like Lens Blur, CC Echo or CC Force Motion Blur, then any form of multiprocessing, including Magic Bullet, will potentially slow you're render down, rather than speed it up.

                             

                            If you're still rendering 24 fps be VERY careful of every step you take in MPEG2 encoding and DVD authoring, and also ensure the DVD playback device is capable of playing back at that frame rate.  Otherwise you'll get quite unpleasant results during playback.