Might have no bearing on the issue, but let's get this out of the way first - how/where are you viewing the Exported files, where you see these issues?
Thanks and good luck,
We viewed the mpeg2 files on three different computers. It was exported from PrPro on a Sony laptop, then copied to the other two.
The video burping, which looks like it just randomly drops a frame every so often with no pattern, occurs on all files.
When I re-export the same file, the same thing happens, but in different places.
Oddly enough, when I viewed the exact same mpeg on a different computer, it burped in the same place alright, BUT . . . it did it one frame back! Weird!
Thanks for any thought or ideas. It is driving me crazy that all my work so polished ends up with these blemishes!!
Hey everyone ~
Just checking in to see if anyone has any clues to the answer to my little dilemma.
I think I've seen the same problem you have where the video will "hiccup" here and there. It thought it was an export problem but as soon as I get it on a Blu-ray disc it goes away. If this is the case I think it's an issue with the computer playing back the file and not an export problem. I don't rely on file playback using a computer so I don't worry about it.
Thank you - but I used three different computers, and they all demonstrated the "hiccup" in basically the same place. So the video flaw exists in the MPEG2 file generated by the program from a clip that has no flaws in those places. the orginal when played in Adobe PrPro is perfect. But it exports imperfection.
Thank you! Still looking for a solution, though . . .
How do you intend to display the finished video? If BD is your destination, then you should burn it to a rewritable BD-RE and test it on a hardware Blu-ray player.
I still wouldn't trust your computer playback results, even with 3 different computers, because all computers except those finely tuned for performance will have background stuff going on that can interfere with playback. That's especially true for longer programs. How long is your program?
Playback of a Blu-ray disc on a hardware Blu-ray player will positively confirm or eliminate the encoded file itself as the source of the problem.
At first I didn't believe you - but then I checked an educational video I had posted on YouTube that I thought had several burps/flaws/hiccups, whatever they're called. And to my great surprise, the video was flawless! I could not believe it. It played better than if the file was inside my machine!
So, I would suppose in the future not to be concerned of burps in any MPEG2s I produce. The flaw is in the playback. But that really shocks me, because none of my three computers were cheap, and they are all fairly new. (Although they are all laptops.)
Well, thank you everyone for your help. I'm sure I'll be back again - it's good to know I have this awesome resource of helpful folks out there!
You have to consider the fact that even the most loaded laptop at over $ 4K (think i7-980X, 12 GB memory, FX 3800 video, multiple 7200 disks) is around 2.5 times slower than a desktop and most laptops are 10 - 20 times slower than a fast desktop, in some cases even more, despite a pricetag of more than $ 2K..
I'm having this trouble with CS5 as well. I did not have this problem with CS3. I'm exporting these files (from a system specifically built and optimized for CS5) for use with MediaShout 3.5 (on a system specifically built and optimized for playing back media). MediaShout (and other playback software such as Media Player) doesn't have problems with MPEG2 files from any other source except those I create with CS5. MediaShout, MediaPlayer, IrfanView, etc., all have the burps in the same places on a given file consistently every time it is played. It also doesn't matter which system I play it back on, either -- it has the same problems in the same places on my edit system. The same problem occurs if I use the MPEG2-DVD option to write to an M2V file. I don't see this problem in other formats; however, we need MPEG2 for MediaShout. I've tried VBR 1pass, VBR 2pass, and CBR -- all three have the same problem, but the burps are in different locations in the file for each bitrate. I don't think this is a playback issue, but an encoding issue.
Dual Xeon X5355 processors (quad-core, 2.67 GHz)
NVidia Quadro 4000
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
29.97 fps drop-frame
Lower field precedence
48kHz 16-bit Stereo
Incedentally, when I start MediaEncoder and select MPEG2 or MPEG2-DVD, the window goes to "Not Responding" for about 3 or 4 minutes before it finally becomes ready for me to start making selections. No other encoding format does this - they all pop up immediately.
I hope someone has some ideas for correcting this, cuz we're taking some flak because of the video quality problem.
Have you considered the fact that this system is at least 15 times slower than a modern fast system?
Hi, Harm! Thanks for your response.
I don't know what you consider a "modern fast system," but the MPEG2 specification has been around for a long time, and isn't dependent on "modern fast systems" to play well. We have been using MPEG2 files with Premiere Pro (from CS2 to CS5) and MediaShout (from 2.0 to 3.5) as long as I've been here, which is over 7 years. We've been generating and playing them on all sorts of "old slow systems" as well as "modern fast systems", and have not had any problems until we upgraded to CS5.
Something I have considered is this. I've been given a rather unique opportunity to do an objective test on this issue.
I've been asked to prepare a music video for next week that we previously did in 2008. Back then, the MPEG2 file was generated on a system with a single 2-core processor, 3GB of memory, Windows XP 32-bit version and CS3. That file played perfectly then, and it still plays perfectly now.
I just created a new MPEG2 file with CS5 using the exact same original AVI source file, synchronized so that the start and stop frames and volume levels match the 2008 version. I used the same export settings I used in 2008 (well, as close as I can given the differences between the CS3 and CS5 media encoders). Both files are 5 minutes, 6 seconds, and 10 frames. However, the 2008 version is 169,830,404 bytes while the 2011 version is 182,345,728 bytes), so something is different inside the files. And yes, the 2011 version has the pauses or "burps."
This is not a playback issue. If it was, the 2008 version would have playback problems as well, both back then with the even slower systems and now with the faster systems (although you call our current systems slow). Plus, this problem only appears with MPEG2 encoding (MPEG2, MPEG2-DVD, MPEG2-BluRay) and no other encoding format we've used (MP4, H.264, AVI, QuickTime, FLV, WMV, etc.), and only with files exported from CS5 -- MPEG2 files from other sources (such as Final Cut Pro or stock videos purchased online) play fine on all our systems (even the "old slow systems"). Blaming the computer's speed is the wrong approach to resolving this issue.
Hello Harm, TheFirstAahz, et al ~
Well this is definately cause for concern. Why would CS5 write a different MPEG2 file than CS3? Fast or slow, the system itself should generate the same, or at least basically the same, file, no?
TheFirstAahz, I have not looked into this since my last message where I reported that I had uploaded the my clip to YouTube, and found it working without those flaws. Which would indicate to ME that it IS a playback issue. I am finding this issue extremely perlexing and worrisome, because I know I will need to create PERFECT MPEG2s later this year. There will be no excuses for me.
Is this just us two noticing this? Can anyone else try to create an MPEG2 file and see it they have any issues with it?
~ Jeff aka BCR guy
OK, I've got more information. Using the same original 2008 AVI file as well as the original project (converted to CS5, of course), I did a number of export tests on a different computer than the one I used when I made my last post. I did several MPEG2 exports, with various combinations of settings:
- Quality 4, VBR 1 pass, Max Depth not checked, Max Render Quality not checked
- Quality 4, VBR 2 pass, Max Depth not checked, Max Render Quality not checked
- Quality 5, VBR 1 pass, Max Depth not checked, Max Render Quality not checked
- Quality 5, VBR 2 pass, Max Depth not checked, Max Render Quality not checked
- Quality 5, VBR 1 pass, Max Depth not checked, Max Render Quality checked
- Quality 5, VBR 2 pass, Max Depth not checked, Max Render Quality checked
- Quality 5, VBR 2 pass, Max Depth checked, Max Render Quality checked
All were rendered at 720x480, 29.97, lower, Target bit rate 4.20, Max bit rate 6.00. The work area bar was NOT changed between exports. The file sizes varied (not surprisingly) from 177MB to 192MB. All of them had burps. The location of the burps varied from file to file, but re-encoding any of the files with the same settings would place the burps in the same location as the first encoding with those settings.
I also tested turning off hardware GPU acceleration, but that didn't change much. The files encoded with software-only were slightly larger and still had burps but in different locations.
Playing the files on different computers (single or dual processors, small memory or large memory, ATI card or NVidia card, XP or Win7, MediaShout or Windows Media Player) had the burps in the same places. If the problem was merely a playback issue and was affected by other processes on the systems, the burps would not fall at the exact same spots every single time on every system with any software.
Now get this: I burned a DVD from that project. The Encore encoding settings were MPEG2 with a max bit rate of 8.00 (33% higher than the MPEG2 encoder from Premiere). I then copied the .VOB file from the DVD back to the hard drive, and renamed it with an .MPG extension. The file is 300MB, more than 50% larger than any of the files encoded above. This file plays perfectly on all systems with no burps, in spite of the fact that it is MUCH larger and encoded using a higher bit rate. I can even play it on another system ACROSS AN ETHERNET NETWORK and it still plays flawlessly. So much for it being a problem of system performance.
With that in mind, I tried exporting a file using the MPEG2-DVD setting, Quality 5, VBR 2 pass, Max Depth, and Max Render Quality. The M2V file plays fine, except that there is no audio (that setting places the audio in a separate .WAV file). I had previously commented that this encoding method also has burps. However, I have not been able to reproduce the burps with MPEG2-DVD, using either the original or other source files and various encoding parameters. Perhaps when I viewed the one earlier it did have a playback glitch, since it hasn't happened since.
If I didn't need the audio in the same file as the video, the MPEG2-DVD option would be great. However, I DO need the audo and video to be in the same file, so it appears that for the time being I need to waste a blank DVD just to get the MPEG2 file that I need, since Premiere's MPEG2 media encoder isn't giving it to me.
Message was edited by: TheFirstAahz -- updates results from encoding with MPEG2-DVD format.
I have the same problem. I coded many mpeg2 movies with CS3 and never had this problem. Now with CS5, I also tried all kind of bitrates and other settings, but there's a hiccup always somewhere in the movie. Exactly as described by TheFirstAahz: once a hiccup is there, it always shows on the same place. Reading the tests in this thread and giving my own experience I think it's a problem of CS5. I need good playback on my PC, with audio, so I really need to solve this problem, otherwise I have to go back to CS3 or CS4 (not tried yet). I really hope someone finds a solution...
When CS5 first came out, I actually posted this very question, and never got a response.
I guess it was too new for anyone to run into.
Here is my workflow and findings
I have to provide video in 3 different formats in 3 different sizes. So I have always created an MPG2 file as a master, then move it around to other computers so they can be re-encoded. I know, a copy of copy looks worse, but I find PP takes forever to encode in some formats. A Windows Media file can take 45min-2hrs to do a two pass encode, whereas Windows Media Encoder can get it done in 15-20mins.
After just installing it and creaitng a project (or importing an older CS4 project), and playing back the exported MPG2 generated in Windows Media, QT, and the VLC Player, I would get all the hiccups you are talking about. The older CS4 project I still had the original MPG2 and it played fine. The diference between the two was startling.
At first I thought my settingss were somehow different, but time and time again I would get hiccups. I finally tested on 1 minute clips as 20-30 minute clips was a waste of time and even in a 1 minute video I could get a hiccup.
And it just isnt the media playback issue....When I would encode with the Windows Media Encoder, the hiccups would stay.
BUT, when I used StreamClip to encode the MP4 sizes, it had no problems, and to this day, still create a MPG2 file so I can re-encode in that format fast. Its worth the 10 minutes it takes to encode the MPG2. Its a great file size and I can generate it quickly.
For Windows Media, it takes PP CS5 hours and hours to do the same video in 3 different sizes. More if their is color correction involved.
I long for the days when I could just encode with Windows Media Player
I have a pretty high end machine complete with an NVIDIA Quadro 6000--which cost a bit more than the actual computer.In fact I upgraded to the most and fasted about 5 months ago, and tend to at least once a year upgrade the the latest and greatest (I hope the Quadro 6000 last longer than a year cuz that was a major investment!)
In order to test this I went back and edited some sample footage in CS4, made sure it was about the same amount of time, and exported to MPG2 with the same settings as CS5....no hiccups.
So there is def. something wrong with the way CS5 encodes MPG2s. Its noticiable in most playback devices, but some re-encoding software "fixes" the hiccups (Streamclip to MP4) while other (like WIndows Media) keep the hiccups.
I bought a second computer just to encode with PP CS5 f the WMP iles and it is my mule. I set it to encode these file overnight and it FTPs them up fine and they look great. I can't figure out why there is such a disparity in speed between encoding with WME and out from PP CS5?
If I ever have to create anothe "flavor" of encoding, I have been storing all these master videos in MPG2 format. Let's say some new format takes off, I figured I could go back to this master and re-encode in the new format, without having to reload all the movie files, then open up the project and wait for it to re-index all the audio/video.
My archive of master from since upgrading to CS5 all have hiccups. CS4 No hiccups. I know I should go back to the project, but many times, speed is an issue, and I like having a master copy that isnt too big (2-3gb)
I dont think there is an answer and I did contact Adobe about it, but they never said anything. I think something is different with their MPG2 encoder, and its like this little secret flaw, perhaps not too many of us create MPG2s?
When you say MPG2, are you using MPG2 presets or MPG2-DVD presets?
What are your audio settings? In MPG2 are you using MPG1 layer I or Layer II Or dolby Digital?
What are you multiplexing settings?
I create tons of MPG2-DVD files every day 0 problems. But I am using M2v and PCM in separate files.
Were you ever able to solve this issue? I've had the same problem also since since the beginning, and have never figured out a fix, only time-consuming work-arounds. I'm so tired of re-encoding with different settings, etc, only to have the same problems, in the same places, again and again. I export everything now using "match sequence settings" and end up with AVIs of about 25GB when an MPEG2 would be about a tenth that size.
When I've subsequently uploaded the glitchy MPEG2 files to Youtube however, the files are magically fixed. But, of course the original MPEG2s won't play glitch-free on either of my computers nor will they make glitch-free DVDs.
I love h264, but Windows Media DVD Maker doesn't directly use the format, and the files must go through another time-consuming conversion! So I may as well use the ginormous AVIs.
It'd be much simpler if Adobe Media Encoder would just make a reliable MPEG2.
Sorry if this was more a rant, than really expecting a solution. I think it's hopeless, and cloud-based Adobe doesn't seem interested in finding or providing a solution.
does this problem only exist in VBR mode not CBR? constant bit rate?
This has been an ongoing problem for many years, and many of the things I tried were long ago. I recently had cause to create an MPEG2 file and the problem was still there.
However, I don't think I ever tried CBR as a variable! It's worth a try, and I'll report back if this helps!