11 Replies Latest reply on Feb 16, 2011 12:26 AM by Bases Loaded

    G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?

    Bases Loaded Level 1

      Am trying to put together a new computer setup & just considering my raid options:


      Was wondering if anyone has any feedback on external raid setups vs internal


      I see this G-Speed-Q being advertised, anyone running this or something like this with any success ?


      It has a built in HighPoint Raid card / any feedback on those ?


      Just trying to keep the cost down as my new setup looks like over $4,000.00 with out any raid array. Am new to raid setups except what I have researched here but don't want to cheep out and end up with problems.


      Harms Areca suggestion is well taken, but do I have to actually spend that much for a raid controller card which works well ?  Also have seen the CalDigit suggestions...


      If I do not go with an external raid setup, are there any Adaptec models which work well ?


      Another question:


      In Raid "0" setup / what is the minimum number of drives I will need to work with uncompressed HD Video, like from a Sony Ex1r


      Thanks people / Raid novice here / go easy now.. 

        • 1. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

          Couple problems here.


          The G-Tech is a E-Sata solution that Multiplexes off 1 E-Sata channel. The cheaper controllers only give you about 110 to 120MB/s when doing that. The more expensive E-Sata controllers which start about $230 or so give you 230MB/s at best. That is not enough to edit uncompressed HD. The solution Harm and others are recommending are SAS solutions which is what you need to edit uncompressed HD. The least expensive Enterprise raid controllers are the Intel RS2BL080 and RS2PI008 controllers depending on whether you want external or internal.


          However, why are you working uncompressed from that camera rather than XDCam? I assume you mean coming out the SDI from that camera and recording live which is the only way you will get uncompressed from that camera. What reason do you have to do that?




          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
            Bases Loaded Level 1

            Hi Eric / Thanks for the reply..


            Perhaps I should explain a little further, I obviously have made some terminology errors.

            I am new to this video thing, basically I am an addio guy just crossing over to do video with my live audio recordings.


            Currently I only have a AVCHD camera setup for the time being but want to put together a system which will work properly if & when I upgrade my camera setup..  The raid thing is totally new ground for me & do not want to make any expensive mistakes..


            The camera's I am considering upgrading to are:

            The uncompressed HD Video I mentioned was perhaps my error.


            Sony Ex1R..

            I do a lot of low light shooting so this one looks like my first choice so far.


            Canon XF300:

            From the samples I have seen this camera appears to have a little better color spectrum (for loss of better words).

            Something about the picture quality I like a little better than the Sony, but again I work in a lot of low light conditions indoors, clubs, indoor concerts etc:


            So the raid setup I would need would be to work with the files and frame rates from the two camera's mentioned above.

            Basically, If I go with either of these new camera's I can not afford to go much above $1,100.00 spent on a raid setup at this time


            If the raid situation gets too expensive combined with a new camera purchase & a new computer setup, I might just stick with the ACVHD format and perhaps go with something like the Sony HXR-NX5U, although the end result will not be as good..  At least I will not need a raid array to work with ACVHD files..


            I have had a look at your site / how can you put together a system to work with CS5 in HD for such low prices,,

            Too bad, I am so far away I would not be able to take advantage of your products.


            My system build at this point (without raid setup) is around $4,100.00 + taxes..

            Canadian pricing / Vancouver BC


            Add another $10,000.00 to that for new camera + accessories and we are talking about a few coins here.

            That is pushing it a little as I do a lot of work for people at NC just to help others,  musicians usually don't have a lot of bucks to throw around.  I know, I am one of those,  :-)


            Anyway / any help you can provide is most appreciated .

            • 3. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              The EX-1R is the best camera among the ones you mentioned. Low light as you mentioned, but also the better codec, the lower compression, the better dynamic, S/N range and the larger sensors. The one thing that Eric mentioned and that is utterly relevant for the solution you come up with, is the ingest method.


              Do you intend to ingest in the studio during the shoot over HD-SDI? If so, you need a very fast raid array. If you only intend to ingest after the shoot by importing from SxS or KxS cards, you don't even need a fast array. A raid0 is enough, provided you have a solid backup of your source material.


              Given the importance of low light capability, I assume that you are not planning on ingesting over HD-SDI. A studio does not require that low light capability from a camera and indoor concerts and the likie preclude the use of HD-SDI.


              You could start out with one or two raid0 arrays on the mobo and at a later time invest in a good raid controller and more disks.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                Harm is correct. A 2 drive raid 0 gives ideal performance for XDCam or DSLR H264.You would be fine with the G Tech if it has one of the better Esata controllers that multiplex. Never tested that unit or the controller they come with. However 230MB/s is around a 2 drive raid 0 performance wise. BTW we do ship to Canada but there are Duties and taxes which can raise the price a good amount.




                • 5. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
                  Bases Loaded Level 1

                  Thanks Harm / Eric & others..


                  We are almost there it seems / just a couple more issues I can't seem to get straight..


                  One is about using an internal Raid controller vs an eSata or firewire external raid controller  ??


                  I have been trying to figure out the Pcie lanes & bandwidth which correspond to which slots are being used, still am confused as to where to install which card and keep the performance I will need for the Video card and raid card..(Plus Audio Card)


                  Will going an external eSata or Firewire raid setup improve anything as far as motherboard band width is concerned.


                  I will be installing 3 PCIe cards in total:


                  Video Card: PNY Quadro-4000 2gb

                  Audio Card  RME http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdspe_aio.php

                  Raid Card:  "Which Areca would be suggested for my needs, 4 ports would be more than enough)

                  >>Or would I be better going with an eSata external Aerca card / which one.??


                  1st: these are the 3 motherboards I am considering:

                  All with 25 gb ram..

                  980x 6 core CPU


                  Any difference in the number of Pcie lanes and bandwidth locations in these motherboards / with the above cards installed.

                  They seen to be the same:

                  >>The gigabyte shows supports for Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) memory modules / the others don't seem to mention this<< is this important as I don't understand the implications of XMP support.


                  The Raid controllers in all the boards below seem to be the same, I think.


                  The Gigabyte has Texas Instruments FireWire controllers (which I prefer) & NEC USB controllers.


                  >>Gigabyte Notes: SATA3 SSDs are not recommended for use in RAID 0 mode on Marvell SE9128 ports

                  >>The ASUS boards do not seem to say this

                  >>No SSDs in this setup but could be in the future.


                  If I go Internal Raid-) for now / is there any diference in performance between these three motherboards ?


                  Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD-5  or 7  (both Rev-2)

                  http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3450#ov  UD-5

                  http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3527#ov ED-7


                  Asus P6x58D-E http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?p_id=gfbkfnyhppw9tdbb&templete=2


                  Asus X58 Sabertooth: http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=AM2RChl84MZrKh6J  


                  I have always gone with ASUS boards until my I7 920 purchase last year, when I went with the Gigabyte UD-3 model.

                  The ASUS Sabertooth seems to have a fuzzy coating on the cooling fins, it is a little dusty here and was wondering if cleaning those more often would be a pain.. :-)


                  Also it is hard to determine without actually seeing any of these motherboards if it will accommodate a cooler like the Noctua NH-U12P-se2  Without blocking memory access ?



                  Don't think I will be overclocking now / would it still be better to add the Noctua just to be on hte safe side?



                  I know this is long, but one remaining question:


                  I seem to remember reading in one or Harm;s posts where he recommended to stick with 1066 RAM.

                  Never could understand why this was being said.


                  >>Would this still hold true in my case ??

                  >>If not / what speed..


                  OK, a bit long I know.

                  If I can come to grips with most of the above I think I can place the order next week and get the show on the road.


                  Doing all this research sort of plows me under, don't want to have to do a new build again anytime soon.


                  Thanks for the help guys / Most appreciated..!

                  • 6. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    X58 motherboards have 36 PCI-e lanes. In your case that means 16 for the video card, 8 for the raid controller and 1 for the audio card for a total of 25 lanes in use. All the 4 motherboards are good, they just differ in the feature set, such as single or dual NIC's, 2 or 3 PCI-e 16x slots, 0 or 1 or 2 fire wire connectors, number of SATA connectors, etc. You have to decide what feature set is relevant for you. BTW, all support XMP and there is no discernable performance difference between them. It is all about feature/price/warranty.


                    You are better of with internal raids than external eSATA and especially firewire. Better performance, more expansion room, less clutter with cables and power cords. Have a look at the Areca 1200 or 1220.


                    SSD's are way overrated and do not deliver a performance gain. I have only noticed ONE single advantage of SSD's over conventional disks:


                    SSD's drain your wallet quite effectively. Per GB they are 40 times more expensive than conventional disks without any performance benefit.


                    Whether a Noctua NH-U12 or the NH-D14 fits without modification depends solely on the memory sticks you use. Some are extremely high with extending fins that can complicate installation. Especially the D14 can give problems, but the U12 does not, at least I have not heard about that issue.


                    English not being my native language, you may have misinterpreted my statement about memory. You are familiar with serendipity, I assume. Looking for a needle in a haystack and finding the farmers daughter. I tried to find the article where I may have said something like that, but did not find it. Neither did I find the farmers daughter for that matter.


                    You are best off with 6 x 4GB DDR3-1600+ sticks, but you need to set the multiplier in BIOS to use the memory at that speed.

                    • 7. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
                      Bases Loaded Level 1

                      Say Thanks Harm for coming back so fast / don't know our time differences / almost 3am here..


                      Great stuff you just posted & cleared up just about all issues I am faced with..

                      You have no idea how much I appreciate that !


                      Your english seems fine to me / what is your native language ?


                      This question was not in this thread, but seeing you probably know the answer I am going to ask a pro:

                      >>In my older computer setups I always had two computers setup to display and be controlled on one set of monitors and keyboards with a KVM switching setup..


                      >>Now with these newer computers I'm told this does not work anymore.


                      >> 40 feet is too far for USB keyboard and mouse & other things, would prefer not to have any kind of wireless booster, if there is such a thing..


                      I do not want to go with any more wireless stuff around here. Won't even buy a cell phone.

                      I was born in 1945, I like to be plugged in solid to waht is on the other end.


                      Question: >> Without wireless over just the keyboard and mouse regular range...


                      How can I hook up my two core I7 computers to both display on the same dual monitor system, keyboard & mouse:

                      >>The towers will be about 40 feet away in a small computer room.


                      >>One is running Win-XP pro 32 bit.

                      >>This new setup: Win-7 Pro 64 bit


                      If you can solve this one for me, I might have a few hairs left after I get this all put together.


                      This whole new computer setup just wears me out, have no one close by that I know of who has the hands on experience.

                      If I were running a Mac there are lots of video experts around here on that platform / not PC's..


                      Everyone here is just telling me, just forget all this / get a Mac & Final Cut & my problems are over.

                      I'm not sold on that idea either, at least form what I have read..ACVHD thing again.


                      I do have a MacBook Pro laptop which I use with a digital mixer for live audio recording, this is rock solid in a firewire setup..

                      Don't think I want to get into a complete realearning curve to get completely into being a Mac Guy with Video.



                      For a little background on what brings me to doing this new computer setup:


                      Perhaps when you have time, go look at a post I made tonight on the CS5 user forum / under CS5 & Mercury Engine questions:   >>That issue is the only thing which scares me to death with spending all this money on a new setup / if you have time to chime in on that thread, please do.


                      I have just gone through a 10 month open support case with CS4 Production Premium on a new core I7 920 setup I bought just last year,  I am buying a new setup rather than upgrading the old model because that other setup works rock solid with all my audio recording related gear, so I will just leave it dedicated to those tasks...


                      But it just wont work properly as a suite with bridge and ACVHD editing, takes forever to complete a simple project with all the crashes and hangs..ACVHD again, it plays smoothly imported direct from the camera SD card, but editing it is another story. Can't even render the timeline / went through reinstall and all that stuff, still won't work properly.


                      Have to often reboot  several times in one hour of work / I sort of get it done 1/2 assed, just basic transitions & contrast adjustments are about all it can handle.


                      OK  / I'm taking up too much bandwidth here I know.


                      Thanks again for the assistance !

                      Wish me luck.


                      All the best from the Canadian West Coast / rain, rain, rain,

                      • 8. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        First, regarding your other question about the Quadro FX5000. Unless you require 10 bit output to a Dreamcolor monitor or similar, I consider them as a waste of money. A GTX 470/480/570/580 will be better specced and a lot more affordable. The one thing the 5000 has is 2.5 GB VRAM, but that is only relevant if you tend to use large stills or Red 3K or 4K in your productions. If you don't go beyond regular 1920 x 1080 material, it is of no impact at all.


                        OK, your basic question, to KVM or not? That begs the question why you need to use a single keyboard/mouse to access two separate computers? Do you have completely different applications installed on each? Is it only to access some files on the other PC, or do you want to save on walking the distance? Can you explain what you want to do and what you want to achieve.


                        Initially, my first reaction would be a home server or sharing of disks to access remote files. For remote running of programs, the first thing that popped to mind was Teamviewer, a Dameware alike remote access and control program, although it is limited to a single monitor. Much better than remote desktop.


                        BTW. I live in the Netherlands, so it is GMT+1 and my native language is Dutch. English is just an acquired taste.

                        • 9. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
                          Bases Loaded Level 1



                          The video card issue: seems only the GXT 470 is in the approved list, I have read it is super hot and noisy,

                          Please see my reply in that other thread topic


                          RE: "OK, your basic question, to KVM or not? That begs the question why you need to use a single keyboard/mouse to access two separate computers?"


                          I basically mostly do audio recording mixing & processing in a dedicated control room:

                          That is the most secure room in my house and the only room where I do not smoke.


                          >>>I also need to keep this room quite for audio work,

                          >>>I don't want to have to deal with the computer noise if I am working on audio while the other computer is rendering files<<



                          I do not have the space to have two sets of dual 22in monitors and keyboards in that work space..

                          There is also a laptop setup in that same room.


                          Can't believe the setup which was so simple a few years ago has became a problem now because of connection options.

                          No wired KVM switchers with USB and HDMI ports for digital monitors.


                          I was told the 35 to 40 ft distance is too long for USB spec.

                          I think there is a USB booster for longer distances, but they cost almost as much as the Quadro 4000.


                          Surely they must have a solution for people to control and work on multiple computers without having a dedicated keyboard / mouse & monitor for each one.


                          I'm still searching, if you find a  solution please let me know..


                          Thanks again for your time and assistance!

                          • 10. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            If you have a network cable between the two computers, you can use http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx and is free for private use.


                            Network cables can be much longer than USB cables, so the physical distance is irrelevant. If both computers are attached to the internet, you can manage computers worldwide. For instance I could take over your computer from here and show you how to do certain things, including registry editing or other problem solving issues.


                            Have a look at it. It may be the solution you are looking for. I like it very much, although the limitation is that in dual monitor mode, the display is rather small, I prefer to switch monitors with a single click for general use.


                            TeamViewer does support a dual monitor setup; you change monitors by clicking on the little icon on the bar at the top of the screen that shows up when your partner is using two monitors with a Windows PC. When connected to Macs, you automatically see both monitors.
                            • 11. Re: G-Tech & other external Raid setups, yes, no?
                              Bases Loaded Level 1

                              Thanks Harm once again..


                              Not sure about that teamviewer piece, I tend to prefer to work offline as much as possible.


                              I know I have had Adobe support come into my CS4 stsyem / dump a few codec's and search for other issues, to no avail..

                              Don't think I would like to be online when doing a project work up / audio or video.


                              But thanks for another possibility to consider / I did find some ideas at Starteck which I did not know about.


                              I will let you know when I find something that works;


                              Sure be glad when I get all these issues decided upon and have CS5 up and running smoothly, I might even be able to grow a few extra hairs.