1 2 Previous Next 45 Replies Latest reply on Feb 25, 2011 6:41 PM by MarkWeiss Branched from an earlier discussion.

    questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4

    Bases Loaded Level 1

      Yes I do have a few questions and concerns / first a little background / I don't post here often even though I did have lots of problems in the past.

      :

      I have just come through extreme problems with My CS4 production premium setup on a core I7 920. 6gb RAM setup.

       

      It just cant handle ACVHD files, it plays them just fine / but as soon as a I add any color correction of FX's other than just mostly transitions, or use bridge,  everything comes to a halt..

       

      I Have an open tech support case now for 9 months with no soultions.

      Did a reinstall and everything

       

      It seems that running it on XP with 3gb memory restriction is the main problem /

       

      >>running premier alone sort of 1/2 works, at times / but with many many crashes during a 10 minute progect file

      >>used as a suite with Bridge  it is definately a No Go<

       

      10 months of agony and wasted time, but I di like the features if I can just get a system put together which works propery.

      >>Tech support staff have very nice and polite people, which is a pleasant shock after many years of buying software from designers who seem to hate their customers.. I'm taling about the big "S--------" fill in the blanks.

       

      However / talking with a diferent person every time I call "Is a big problem" especially with a long on going case / it gets too complicated for a new tech suport person to follow what has already been done / it is not fair to them either.

       

      My file is a book.   Have a look ?

       

      With that said:

       

      I have been working with level-3 tech support (thanks Adobe) and am about to buy yet another new computer built form the ground up which will work properly with CS5 Production premium:

       

      Win-7 Pro 64 bit

      980 Expteme Processor

      24 GB Ram

      raid-0

      10,000rpm Velcro raptors / system and scratch disks.

       

      With a certified Quadro card / 4000 or 5000..

      We could be talking about a $6,000.00 computer here, so it just has to work.

       

      Now this is where I start to have some concern:

       

      >>>A Quadro 5000 is about $2000.00 / Canadian pricing. tax in.

      I know I could go with a 470, but t a true Quadro seems to have it's advantages ??

       

      I am reading a lot of complaints here about the Quadro Cards ( or cuda in general) "not being of much help when working with ACVHD files"..

      >>>>What's the truth about this topic.

       

      There seem to be a lot of remarks that CS5 is even worse than CS4 when it comes to ACVHD editing and rendering, even with a certified Quadro card. in my case /this scares me to death ?

       

      <<I ahve been around forums of all types for many years, so I am aware that they often attract more people with complaints than customers who are happy<<.  The happy ones are busy being productive and you never hear from them, even though they may out number people with problems

       

      This being said:

       

      Would Adobe please reply to my above mentioned ACVHD concerns:

       

      >>I certainly do not want to invest all this money in a true Quadro card just to find out it does not work so well with ACVHD files<<

       

      I already have purchased CS5 Production Premium and am about to place an order for a new computer build in the next few days;

       

      I will be switching over to a Sony EX1-r sometime down the road, after I recocer from buying a second new computer in a little over one year.  >>But for now, I'm stuck with ACVHD format.  $$$$

       

      Thanks:

       

      Adobe customer.

        • 1. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          >seem to be a lot of remarks that CS5 is even worse than CS4 when it comes to ACVHD editing

           

          Post links to those remarks

           

          MY CS5/AVCHD 1st Impressions http://forums.adobe.com/thread/652694?tstart=0 includes a link to the computer I built... since the GTX 285 is no longer sold, I would now go with a GTX 460 or whatever is the current "best bang for the buck" - AND I would buy 4Gig-by-3Sticks memory to be able to expand from 12Gig to 24Gig if needed


          For my home hobbyist, family movies (which means that I am not trying to recreate Star Wars with video effects or many layers) AVCHD editing is "as smooth as spreading warm butter on hot toast" (also the MP4 video from wife's Flip camera)


          My 3 hard drives are configured as...
          1 - 320G WD Win7 and all programs
          2 - 320G WD Win7 swap file and PPro projects
          3 - 1T WD all video files... read and write

          • 2. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            CS5 is much better than CS4 in handling AVCHD. And with hardware MPE it leaves CS4 way behind in the dust.

             

            However, the Quadro 5000 is way too pricey and underspecced in comparison to a GTX 470/480/570/580 to justify such a card, unless you absolutely need 10 bit output to a Dreamcolor monitor (very few of them around) or you are only editing Red 3K/4K material and huge stills.

             

            Any of the above GTX cards will be much more attractive. Better specs and a much nicer price.

            • 3. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
              Bases Loaded Level 1

              Thanks John & Harm for being the first to reply:

               

              Good to see someone reporting ACVHD editing has improved with CS5.

               

              Harm / the video card issue & your reply:

               

              What do you think is more important for Video editing / multiple Keying effects / color correction & rendering quality.:

               

              Number of Cuda cores / bandwidth / or video card memory ?

               

              Lets say I took the Quadro 4000 which is less than 1/2 the price of the 5000, sounds good to me..

               

              The Quadro 4000 is reported to run much Quiter & cooler than the GTX480 / all quite important to me, unless there will be a rather. Plus it only takes up 1 slot.

               

              Is there really a Huge performance boost by going to the GTX480..

               

              If I compare that to the GTX 470, this is what I see:

               

              Quadro 4000:  Card Memory 2GB.....Cuda cores / 256; Memory Bandwidth 89.6Gb/s:  $760.00

               

              GTX 470:....... Card Memory 1.2GB ..Cuda Cores /448; Memory Bandwidth 133 GB/s   $275.00

              >>The heat and noise seem to concern me a little, unless the payoff is Huge.

               

              Are there features of the Quadro family which I may not know about which might make that a better choice for what I want to use it for..

               

              ACVHD format for now<< perhaps a Sony Ex1R sometime down the road.

              Not going to be doing 3D design work...

               

               

              What ya` think / if the main goal was not to save on cost between the two.

               

              Thanks:

              • 4. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                I'd actually recommend a GTX460.  You can pick one up with 2GB of VRAM for just over $200.  It runs CUDA very nicely.

                 

                Also, switching to the EX1 may not be the best idea.

                 

                "So -- conclusions? Easy -- AVCCAM's 21mbps PH mode is a clearly superior codec over XDCAM EX. No question, no argument, no doubt." - Barry Green

                 

                http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/article.php/25

                • 5. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                  MarkWeiss Level 1

                  AVCCAM might provide a more efficient compression than XDCam,

                  but I doubt it's any better quality at 24mb/s than XDCam @35mb/s. And with the headaches of dealing with AV

                  CHD, I'll stick to XDCam, thank you. If it's good enough for the making of "Monsters", it's good enough for mos

                  t all of us.

                  • 6. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                    fincaman2 Level 1

                    I agree, I have a manufacturer overclocked (by17.5%) GTX 460 and it works great but don't forget you have to hack it to use Mercury.

                    • 7. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      You are correct that the GTX 4xx series can be rather noisy under load, when the fan speed goes over 65%. The newer GTX 5xx series is significantly quieter.

                       

                      The quadro drivers  are alleged to be more reliable for work with some Autodesk applications, like Autocad and other 3D applications, but for PR there is no difference in functionality or reliability of the drivers over the GTX line.

                       

                      We know all the CUDA cores are used, so the higher the number of cores, the faster the rendering can be. However the calculated results still have to pass from VRAM over the memory bus to main memory, so those factors also impact the performance, as does the CPU speed and cores and RAM. It gets highly complex to see which factor, number of cores, bus width and memory, has the most impact, especially if you factor in the other system components.

                       

                      One thing is certain, the GTX 4xx/5xx has more cores and a wider bus than the Quadro. The Quadro may have more memory, but the relevancy of that is limited to 3D work and in a very few cases for PR with Red 4K material and very large stills. For normal XDCAM editing one needs to create very, very complex timelines to run out of memory on a GTX 4xx/5xx card, if it is possible at all.

                      • 8. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                        dradeke Adobe Employee

                        Ah, we're in the GPU question again...

                         

                        I'll chime in only long enough to mention my opinion.

                         

                        GeForce is less expensive than Quadro but Quadro provides the extra quality in engineering.  It's like the extreme versions of CPUs - they're picked because their specs are superior to their cheaper siblings.  I think this is the same for GPUs.

                         

                        In addition, as mentioned, the Quadros hold up under load better than the GeForces.  This is important to me, but then again, it's not my money I'm spending.

                         

                        RAM is incredibly important to the GPU, so you shouldn't be dismissive of amounts.  you need about 750MB just to get the hardware acceleration to go.

                         

                        In the end, I recommend the Quadro 4000 to anyone who doesn't gasp at the price (which is still under $1000).  It offers the same or better performance as the Quadro FX 4800 which was $1500 about a year ago.  Failing that, I tend to recommend an official supported GeForce card, or the best 'unofficial' card that is around $500.00.

                         

                        Cheers,

                        Dennis

                        • 9. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Dennis,

                           

                          RAM is incredibly important to the GPU, so you shouldn't be dismissive of amounts.  you need about 750MB just to get the hardware acceleration to go.

                           

                          I did not intend to sound dismissive. My remark was that the 1.5 GB on a 480/580 or the 2 GB on a 460 will be enough for most users, unless Red 4K comes into the picture. In that case the Quadro 6000, which is not certified by Adobe, may be the only solution at extreme costs, or one has to get the 3 GB version of the 580.

                           

                          Notice that the Gainward or Pallit 3 GB GTX 580 offer 50% more VRAM than the Quadro 4000, plus all the other benefits, more cores, wider memory bus and lower price.

                           

                          GeForce is less expensive than Quadro but Quadro provides the extra quality in engineering.  It's like the extreme versions of CPUs - they're picked because their specs are superior to their cheaper siblings.  I think this is the same for GPUs.

                           

                          I doubt that. nVidia does not deliver Quadro chips to third parties. That IMO means they artificially keep their prices high, but does not guarantee better engineering or better quality. It's like digital cameras. If it carries the brand name Leica, it is expensive, if it carries the brand name Panasonic, it is way less expensive, even though everything inside is exactly the same. It is just branding. Philips TV's are a lot more affordable than B&O, but they use the exact same components internally.

                          • 10. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                            I doubt it's any better quality at 24mb/s than XDCam @35mb/s.

                             

                            Actually, the conclusion I posted was from testing AVCHD at 24 and XDCAM at 35 Mb/s.  If you read the whole article, you will even see screen grabs between the two codecs.

                             

                            AVCHD is technologically superior to MPEG2, and it very clearly shows in the footage.

                            • 11. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                              the GTX 4xx series can be rather noisy under load

                               

                              I don't find that to be true at all for my Sparkle GTX460, though that may well vary by card manufacturer as each uses their own cooling solution.

                              • 12. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                I edit both AVCHD and XDCAM-EX on my i7-920 with 12gb of Ram, a 3-disk RAID-0, and the older GTX-285... I have no trouble at all with any of it, and only have to drop my program monitor to 1/2 res if I put in several layers of CC on my video files. I also edit with RED 4k frequently and have had no issues, either (though I have to keep my monitor at 1/4 res). I've also not had any noise/heat issues with my GTX-285 card, though I do have a professionally built computer from the BOXX company, and though I added the card myself about a year after I bought the computer, it may be that the computer just has such good noise proofing that it's not an issue... I have literally zero noise issues with my computer, even rendering under a full load.

                                 

                                So, that said, unless money was of no issue, I'd stick with the GTX series--probably the 460 or 470 since the 285 is no longer available (I think I bought the last one that Newegg had in stock...).

                                • 13. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                  dradeke Adobe Employee

                                  Harm Millaard wrote:

                                   

                                  I doubt that.

                                  Perhaps I have some more insight into this as I work with nvidia on a regular basis

                                   

                                  Bottom line: Quadro's are more expensive and may not be worth it to some users, but they do offer some differentiation including a point you mentioned yourself - they don't sell Quadro's like they do GeForce.  Their restricted sales model may allow them to keep premium margins, but it also allows them to keep tighter control on quality and engineering specs.

                                   

                                  Whatever the opinion of the people here, lets remember that we all have choice and different price points based on our budgets.  Having the most flexible and powerful NLE on the market is a good thing and flexible GPU options and usage make it even better!

                                   

                                  Cheers,

                                  Dennis

                                  • 14. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                    MarkWeiss Level 1

                                    Re:

                                    http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/article.php/25

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    All I see on the comparisons is that the AVCHD is blurred in the vertical dimension and trades mosquito noise on top/bottom for mosquito noise left/right. And no 4:2:2. What's the point if there's no decisive gain in the color resolution, only to be hobbled with editing problems? My CS3 handles XDCam EX very smoothly--actually better than SD interlaced footage from DV--but produces a 'bad or corrupt file format' when I try to import AVCHD from my wife's Canon HF-S200, so why would I hobble myself with the Panasonic device for no decisive gain? Even the Nanoflash is dubious, being it's only 8-bit. A Kia Pro Mini makes the most sense, but can CS3 edit that CODEC? So I remain on SxS XDCam EX, because it works, and the quality is excellent with the Detail OFF and post sharpening applied in the edit suite. The differences on static images were better than on this AVC vs. XDCam demo.

                                    • 15. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                      The gain would be in improved image quality under codec duress.  As in less blocking artifacts.

                                       

                                      Of course, if your system can't handle the media, it's a moot point.  But we are here in the CS5 forum, not CS3.  And your experience with upgrading isn't the norm.

                                      • 16. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                        T-Craft Level 1

                                        Keepemstraight,

                                         

                                         

                                        In reply to your need to build a $6,000+ machine......I just built a machine fall of 2010 that cost me under $2,000.  I edit AVCHD 1920x1080 60p footage in the CS5 multicam window literally everyday.  We film stage productions and use 3 Panansonic HDC-HS700K camcorders shooting at 60fps (59.94)  they range from 30min to 1.5 hours in duration and the system I built cuts these 3 native AVCHD sources in CS5's multicam window with zero lag or stutter.  Below are the specs to my system.

                                         

                                         

                                        6-core proc. (AMD phenom II X6 3.2ghz with turbo core unlocker/auto overclock)
                                        Asus Crossfire mobo with USB-3 / sata 6
                                        16 gigs 1333 ram
                                        GTX 260 (text file added to unlock mercury)
                                        Win 7 - 64 bit home premium
                                        WD 10k velociraptor system drive (nothing but windows & apps loaded)
                                        quantity 4 Hitachi G-raid external Raid-0 drives connected e-sata
                                        (scratches on one, media on another, project files on another etc.)

                                        Lite-on Blu-ray burner

                                         

                                         

                                        This machine runs fantastic and again was under $2,000  ($1,600 & change if I remember right including the blu-ray burner) (g-raid externals were the only thing not included in that price)

                                         

                                        For the money, this machine is a beast and flying through the workload I am putting it under.

                                         

                                        As a sidenote, AMD is supposed to be releasing thier new 8-core Bulldozer chips here in the next few months.  Which you could go with that for even more power, or count on the Phenom X6 prices to drop making a build like mine even more cost effective.

                                         

                                        Right before I built my machine I was thinking of dropping almost 6 grand on a 6-core Mac pro.....and literally EVERYDAY I am glad I went with this PC.  I have only had 3-4 lock-ups/crashes in almost 6 months.....and I usually have anywhere from 10-12 active projects on my drives that I work on 8-12 hours a day.  I can build FOUR of these machines for the price of that one Mac Pro.  No-Brainer IMHO.

                                         

                                         

                                        T-Craft

                                        • 17. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                          Bases Loaded Level 1

                                          Thanks T-Craft for planting the seeds:

                                           

                                          Sorry for the slow comeback, I seems I have started a little storm here but I appreciate everyone's assistance..

                                           

                                          I have just spent a day doing more research on system component options and I did check out a system like yours, except with the newer 1100T AMD processor, $249.00..

                                           

                                          Read all the reviews, not quite as beefy as the Intel 980 extreme but I can see how it could get the job done like you say.

                                           

                                          Here is what I am considering:

                                           

                                          I needed a new Internet computer anyway, so I think I will buy Both the Intel I7980x setup and the AMD 11T 6 core package..

                                           

                                          I will use the AMD Setup for Internet access and also as a rendering machine by having the two systems networked together..

                                           

                                          I will go with 24gb memory in the I7 980x / and 16gb in the AMD setup.

                                          This way I will also have good future reference as how the two cystems compare / thanks so much for the idea !!

                                           

                                          The 260 video card is almost impossible to find up here so I will go with the approved 470../ and check out the noise.

                                           

                                          Because of all the problems I had with CS4 / Adobe has stayed with me through 10 months of problems even thought they could not fix it, so I don't want to use any components which are not on the adobe certified list..

                                          .

                                          If I have problems with CS5 >>>it wont be for not having approved accessories..

                                          I sure wish they would make more Nvidia cards available as certified, wuite sure it is holding back a lot of customers

                                           

                                          Question about your Panasonic camera setup:

                                           

                                          How does it handle this bummer situation with ACVHD file size limitation cutting files automatically into segments when the size limit is reached....

                                           

                                          I don't think CS5 automatically can import them and join the files to one clip automatically / can it ?

                                           

                                          Do you have the Panasonic software which came with the camera installed in your CS5 system?

                                          Does this join the files seamlessly when you import them first with the Panasonic software ??

                                           

                                          In my case / I do a lot of live audio videos with the Sony CX550v.

                                           

                                          My issue with these cameras is the AVCHD file size limit, why do they use FAT32 anyway, could never figure that out /

                                           

                                          When joined together they are not a perfect match, even a few audio samples out just blows music videos,

                                          The video looks OK, but the audio is always just a little smear out.

                                           

                                          I must often spend a lot of time shifting the audio file a few samples where the video splits.

                                          I often record the audio with a MacBook pro and a digital multi track mixer / PreSonus studio live / a fantastic little board for the price !  Rock Solid here.

                                           

                                          Not bad for just a little more than the price of One Nvidia Quadro 5000.

                                          Go figure / something wrong with this picture ?

                                          All the Digital i/o / preamps / Great EX & F'x for the price of a Quadro 5000..

                                          Seems nuts to me ?

                                           

                                          I picked the Sony cx550v  because of the far superior low light shooting to all other cameras of this type.

                                           

                                          However, I do like what I see in the colors coming from Panasonic & Canon, they a tad better in good light.

                                           

                                          Anyway:

                                          Thanks for the feedback / I will let you know what I end up with in a couple of weeks.

                                           

                                          Here is one of my CX550v clips / an outdoor thing / not the most spectacular audio, not recorded with my high quality mic's..etc / still not bad.

                                           

                                          YouTube scrambled up version:

                                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaXBhE-Zgo0

                                           

                                          With CS4 I probably had about 20 crashes just doing this one short clip / seriously / Core I7920 / GTX9800 / win-xp memory restriction has lot to do with it, tech support could never fix my issue, so I am going CS5 and spending all those bucks on another system..

                                           

                                          It better work this time .

                                          • 18. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                            Bases Loaded Level 1

                                            Thanks dradeke for the

                                            comment:

                                             

                                            Whatever I do I think I will only stick to the approved component list, just wish Adobe would approve more Nvidia cards.

                                             

                                            Makes it real tough on customers who may not want to spend mega bucks on the Quadro series is they only do video editing..

                                             

                                            If I do the hack and have issues, support will jump the ship and let me sink.

                                             

                                            But then again, unfortualtely I can't stand a noisy card sreaming at me when I am working and the heat stressing out all those other goodies inside.

                                             

                                            I will probably just go with the Quadro 4000 / on sale here not for $749.00.

                                            That is only slightly more than a good motherboard / a good 1000w power supply, and an Antec 1200 case all combined ?..

                                             

                                            And that is the little Quadro, more or less.

                                             

                                            Go Figure 

                                            • 19. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                              why do they use FAT32 anyway, could never figure that out /

                                               

                                              To accommodate Mac users, who can't natively read/write to the superior NTFS file system.  (Yet another reason to hate Macs.)

                                              • 20. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                To accommodate Mac users, who can't natively read/write to the superior NTFS file system.  (Yet another reason to hate Macs.)

                                                 

                                                OS X 10.6 does. And OS X (and I think maybe OS 9) have always been able to read NTFS, right out of the box.

                                                • 21. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                  I don't believe that's accurate, Colin.  Both read AND write.

                                                  • 22. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                    davidbeisner2010 Level 3

                                                    Jim's right... it can read it, but not write to it. I've got an external that's NTFS and I can give files to my friends on macs, but they can't write to it...

                                                    • 24. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                      > Whatever I do I think I will only stick to the approved component list, just wish Adobe would approve more Nvidia cards.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      We're working on it. I don't think that I'm giving too much away to say that there's a serious engineering and testing push going on right now in that area.

                                                      • 25. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                        Bases Loaded Level 1

                                                        Thanks Todd for the good news !

                                                         

                                                        I'm quite sure this will be appreciated by many customers who do not need all the Quadro extras for 3d graphics which are of little use in Premiere...??

                                                         

                                                        Leaves more funds left for a better HD setup, which in turn relates to even more happy customers.

                                                         

                                                        Seems like a win/ win situation for both Adobe and their customers..  $$$$$

                                                         

                                                        In my specific situation, I sure hope it is sooner than later.

                                                        • 26. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                          not out of the box, but it's there

                                                           

                                                          Perhaps if both read and writer ever become available on a Mac without any user intervention (it just works), then manufacturers will stop using the antiquated FAT32 for solid state recording, external hard drives, thumb drives, etc.

                                                           

                                                          Then we all win.  (And I will have one less thing to complain about, and we can then focus on the last two Mac-created issues - QuickTimne and AIFF as their standard file formats.)

                                                          • 27. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                            Colin Brougham Level 6
                                                            then manufacturers will stop using the antiquated FAT32 for solid state recording, external hard drives, thumb drives, etc.

                                                             

                                                            While I can't find a hard-and-fast reference to refute this, I suspect that your theory on the persistence of FAT32 is not totally correct. At least so far as recording devices are concerned, I suspect that the usage of FAT32 has less to do with supporting an OS like Mac, and more to do with the fact that these devices are running some form or another of Linux. I would imagine that, despite the limitations of FAT32, it also requires far less processing capability from the hardware and therefore, is the de facto filesystem. Add to that the necessity for a Lowest Common Denominator, and you have FAT32, which requires no monkeying about to support at the OS level.

                                                             

                                                            For example, my cell phone uses a Linux filesystem (EXT4); as is, it wouldn't mount on my Windows laptop, but since I have to install a bunch of drivers and other stuff to mount it, there is some layer of abstraction between them. That's certainly not going to be in any camera manufacturers best interest--they want a plug-in-and-go solution. Even RED, which is so pro-Mac-anti-Windows that it's not even funny, uses FAT32 for the recording media--that includes both the CF cards and the RED drives (solid state and spinning).

                                                             

                                                            Either way, it doesn't bother me; I've got tools to use Mac drives on a PC and PC drives on a Mac, and it's a pretty seamless endeavor.

                                                            • 28. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                              it's a pretty seamless endeavor.

                                                               

                                                              Except when you have a long shot and it get's broken up into smaller files because of FAT32.  That is an issue that needs resolving.  Adobe has done a fine job of working with that limitation and making the Adobe software handling seamless.  But I want it just as seamless at the file level.

                                                               

                                                              One shot, one clip.  No folders.  Spanning should only occur when you switch cards.  For that, we need NTFS  - or hopefully exFAT will start making the rounds and show up as the de facto file format in these situations.

                                                               

                                                              Also, Linux has both read/write access to NTFS, so even if a camera was using some type of Linux OS (which would be news to me), it's still very possible to use NTFS on the cards.

                                                              • 29. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                T-Craft Level 1

                                                                "How does it handle this bummer situation with ACVHD file size limitation cutting files automatically into segments when the size limit is reached....

                                                                 

                                                                I don't think CS5 automatically can import them and join the files to one clip automatically / can it ?"

                                                                 

                                                                If you go into the media browser you will be able to import AVCHD spanned clips into the project panel and ppro cs5 will see them as one clip with no breaks in video or audio.  works well.

                                                                 

                                                                Problem:  This is another issue I ran into....not sure if it is an adobe thing or a specific issue with my panny cameras.  if you shoot a wedding lets say....and you shoot 45 clips of different b-roll shots before the service.  then you film the 1.5 hour catholic service as clips 46-50 (spanned)  then you shoot clips 51-100 as more b-roll after the service.  Here's the issue.....if you go to media browser to view them camera as "AVCHD" you will only see clips 96-100.  If you select view as files you can see the individual files, but not as a spanned clip.  Crazy thing is, any spanned clip in between 96 & 195 you can see, but as soon as you record file 197.....you guessed it.....now you cant see anything between 96 & 195 anymore.  WHAT A PAIN!

                                                                 

                                                                Do you have the Panasonic software which came with the camera installed in your CS5 system?

                                                                Does this join the files seamlessly when you import them first with the Panasonic software ??

                                                                not sure, never tried it.

                                                                 

                                                                My issue with these cameras is the AVCHD file size limit, why do they use FAT32 anyway, could never figure that out /

                                                                 

                                                                When joined together they are not a perfect match, even a few audio samples out just blows music videos,

                                                                The video looks OK, but the audio is always just a little smear out.

                                                                if you use the media browser to import as a spanned clip, this issue should go away. 

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                Hope this helps!

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                T-Craft

                                                                • 30. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                                  if you go to media browser to view them camera as "AVCHD" you will only see clips 96-100.

                                                                   

                                                                  That's disturbing news.  What model camera?

                                                                  • 31. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                    T-Craft Level 1

                                                                    Panasonic HDC-HS700K

                                                                     

                                                                    great little cameras, records in full 1920x1080 @ 60P

                                                                     

                                                                    can record to the new SDXC cards.....great features for such a small camera.....not sure if its PPRO or the cameras file structure. never a problem usually, only when I shoot long catholic weddings do I notice this issue.  Due to shooting b-roll before and after the long service, then the spanned clips get lost in the middle.  SUCKS!

                                                                     

                                                                    so my work-around is to shoot all of the b-roll clips to the cameras HDD, then shoot the ceremony to SD cards where they can be spanned without being lost in the shuffle of the other clips.

                                                                     

                                                                    so its not that big of a deal now, but it was trying to figure it out.  LOL

                                                                    • 32. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                      1080p/60 isn't deliverable (it's not an HDTV or a Blu-ray legal specification), so that's not much of an attraction for my own wedding business.

                                                                       

                                                                      But I am curious about why the Media Browser isn't seeing all of your clips properly.  The camera I'm looking at has no hard drive to implement your work around.

                                                                       

                                                                      Were they shot at 1080p/60, or at normal settings?

                                                                      • 33. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                        T-Craft Level 1
                                                                        1080p/60 isn't deliverable (it's not an HDTV or a Blu-ray legal specification), so that's not much of an attraction for my own wedding business.

                                                                         

                                                                        Were they shot at 1080p/60, or at normal settings?

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        I shoot everything at 60p so that I can edit in native 60p and get better slow-motion.  then I final encode at either 30 or 24 depending.  The other reason I shoot in 60p is that because these are not high-level "pro" cameras so you only have 2 choices.....1920x1080 60i or 1920x1080 60p and I prefer to do everything from start to end with a progressive workflow. because I will final encode as progressive anyhow and it saves the need for deinterlacing during the encode process.

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        But I am curious about why the Media Browser isn't seeing all of your clips properly.  The camera I'm looking at has no hard drive to implement your work around.

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        I am curious as well  LOL!

                                                                         

                                                                        as far as no HDD you should still be okay, just shoot all of your b-roll that have no need for spanning on SD card, then use a set of SD cards strictly for the ceremony, and the others for the recpeption.  almost the same as mini-dv workflow.  before on SD mini-dv cams I would have tapes for b-roll, ceremony, reception etc. which kept capturing alot more organized.....so I assume you could do the same thing with cards.

                                                                        • 34. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                          Thanks for the info.

                                                                           

                                                                          If you're willing to run some tests with junk footage, I'd love to hear the results of shooting at normal 30i.  I wonder if PP would then see all clips properly.

                                                                          • 35. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                            T-Craft Level 1
                                                                            If you're willing to run some tests with junk footage, I'd love to hear the results of shooting at normal 30i.  I wonder if PP would then see all clips properly.

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            Unfortunately I have already done that with the same results.  In fact, that is when I discovered the issue.  For the first 6 months of owning these cams I shot everything at 30fps interlaced. Only recently did I switch to 60p due to better quality and improved slow-motion footage.

                                                                             

                                                                            So hopefully media browser will be fixed if it is indeed ppro, or a firmware update for my cams if it is indeed them causing the issue. 

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            We shall see 

                                                                            • 36. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                              Colin Brougham Level 6

                                                                              So hopefully media browser will be fixed if it is indeed ppro, or a firmware update for my cams if it is indeed them causing the issue. 

                                                                               

                                                                              Regardless of the source of the problem, have you filed a bug report for this issue (Adobe Feature Request/Bug Report Form)? I would assume that the 700s have the same file-writing "guts" as something like the HMC150, and therefore it would be likely that it is Premiere that has the issue. Premiere uses the folder structure and a few files saved in the folder structure--not the media files themselves--to determine what "mode" to flip the Media Browser into. Likely, there is a bug in the way Premiere is reading the metadata that is causing the weird display. There are quite a few supporting files in the AVCHD structure that could be the potential culprit, so provide all the detail you did here in a bug report; that's the best way to direct the engineering team towards resolution of the problem.

                                                                              • 37. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                                Hmmm.

                                                                                 

                                                                                This is troublesome.

                                                                                • 38. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                                  T-Craft Level 1
                                                                                  have you filed a bug report for this issue

                                                                                   

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Colin......will do, thanks for the link.

                                                                                   

                                                                                   

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I don't suppose you have any thoughts on the thread I just posted regarding online/offline workflow do you? 

                                                                                   

                                                                                  http://forums.adobe.com/thread/794601?tstart=0

                                                                                  • 39. Re: questions about AVCHD in Premiere Pro CS5 vs CS4
                                                                                    MarkWeiss Level 1

                                                                                    I'm just not seeing that improved quality under CODEC duress in these examples. I s

                                                                                    ee one type of artifact traded for another.

                                                                                    Apparently XDCam was good enough for the movie Monsters. I watched it on Blu-ray on a 12' projection screen from 8' distance (front row in my theater) and it looked fine. Couldn't find any problems.

                                                                                    Wanting to move to AVCHD seems to make little sense.

                                                                                    Maybe in 3-4 years, I'll buy new hardware (16 core machines) that can run CS5 smoothly, but for now, I think I'd rather invest the money in replacing our one AVCHD cam with another XDCam. It's actually the less expensive solution and will result in an improvement in image quality for us.

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