10 Replies Latest reply on Feb 17, 2011 5:00 PM by Paulboston

    can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session

    Paulboston

      Just a couple of bugs I have found so far.   I've been using the windows version for years.

       

      1)  Why is the default file format .wav?   This is for MAC, it should be AIFF!!

       

      2)  Why can't I save a large audio file over 2 gig in size as an AIFF?   I am forced to save as WAVE.   Otherwise I get the option greyed out and an error message that says I can't do that.

       

      3)  Sometimes when I start a new recording session,  the software hangs when I click record.   I just get stream of little green boxes in the timeline and nothing records.   If I try to click on cancel, the whole program locks up.   I get the spinning beach ball and have to force quit.

        • 1. Re: can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session
          ronnieh1

          I reported frequent hanging on a new recording session long ago and there has been no response from the developers. I guess that means it will be fixed in the release because it's a glaring bug.

           

          A worse bug is that recording long programs is unreliable. Perhaps I'm the only user with this problem, because it has gone un-noticed. It's curious that I have recording problems on all three of my Macs, though. Maybe it's because nobody but me is recording 3-hour sessions back-to-back.

           

          • Audition on my Macbook Pro actually crashed spontaneously after 30 minutes of recording from the analog line input.

           

          • On my new iMac, I noticed that Audition's temporary cache accumulates dismissed sessions, so you have to re-launch to clear the cache each time you press record. I didn't notice this on the Mac Pro which has far more resources, but it's a clue as to why the Mac Pro is unreliable for extended recording times.

          • My Mac Pro frequently stops recording well into a 2-hour recording session and when I stop recording the beachball spins for more than 1/2 hour before the recording can be played back. This doesn't happen all of the time, so it's difficult to figure out what it happens. A major clue is the accumulation of dismissed recordings in the cache. My guess is that I would get reliable recordings on the Mac Pro if I remembered to re-launch between each recording.

           

           

          But, I've given up this fight. I love Audition and use if for everything but recording. Audacity is good enough for what I do and it's totally reliable.

          • 2. Re: can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session
            Charles VW Adobe Employee

            Paulboston wrote:

             

            Just a couple of bugs I have found so far.   I've been using the windows version for years.

             

            1)  Why is the default file format .wav?   This is for MAC, it should be AIFF!!

             

            See answer to #2

             

            2)  Why can't I save a large audio file over 2 gig in size as an AIFF?   I am forced to save as WAVE.   Otherwise I get the option greyed out and an error message that says I can't do that.

             

            AIFF files are restricted to 2 GB because we try to follow the spec as closely as possible.   Any AIFF file that is over 2GB is not in compliance with the AIFF specification, and should be considered a bug.   WAV files have a limit of 4GB which is one of the reasons why we default to it.   Another reason is its richer metadata set that is used with many of our Radio customers as well as the ability to use Broadcast WAV files which are used for our Radio and Audio-for-Picture customers.

             

            For the technical reason about the size limits,

            IFF files (which AIFF is a subtype of) use file addressing with a signed 32-bit number.   So the valid range is -2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647 (or about -2 GB to +2 GB).   Unfortunately, this design (circa 1985) was a bit short-sited because you can't have file offsets that are negative numbers.

             

            RIFF files (wich WAV and AVI are subtypes of) use file addressing with an unsigned 32-bit number.   So the valid range is 0 to 4,294,967,295 (or about 0 GB to +4 GB).   This design (circa 1991) was a little bit better.   There are a few competing schemes on how to extend WAV files beyond 4 GB, we support only a few of them.

             

            For the 2 GB problem with AIFF files, Apple's answer to that was the CAF file format which can also go beyond 4 GB.   We don't at this time support exporting of CAF files.

             

            3)  Sometimes when I start a new recording session,  the software hangs when I click record.   I just get stream of little green boxes in the timeline and nothing records.   If I try to click on cancel, the whole program locks up.   I get the spinning beach ball and have to force quit.

             

            What audio hardware are you using?  Can you post a screenshot of your Audio Hardware preferences?

            • 3. Re: can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session
              ronnieh1 Level 1

              Here's mine. Simple iMac with no external connections, but it has been happening for months on all of my Macs regardless of input hardware. It's usually present after the first launch of AA4.

              It's an extreme horizontal zoom situation that displays individual sample points.

               

              • 4. Re: can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session
                Paulboston Level 1

                Charles,

                 

                Thanks for taking all the time to explain exactly why I can't do large

                AIFF files.     It's a bit of a pain, but hopefully somebody will be able

                to modify the AIFF specs but yet the files are backwards compatible.

                 

                I digitize a lot of old audio reels of album masters and my clients prefer

                that I sample them in at 96k 24 bit to get the best sound.   Of course

                this results as pretty big files.

                 

                I have three Macs.  I have a 2007  intel quad mac pro, a 2008 24" imac,

                and a 2010 17" macbook pro.

                 

                I have been doing the digitizing mostly on my Mac Pro, and Imac using my

                Echo Audio Audiofire 8, which is an outboard firewire breakout box with 8

                in and 8 out.

                 

                I see I am not the only person whom is having the exact same problem with

                the beta version of Audition for mac.    It just simply hangs or puts

                little squares in the time line and I have to shut it down and restart.

                 

                Paul

                • 5. Re: can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session
                  Paulboston Level 1

                  Yup!  That¹s it!  Same problem here, and if I try to click on STOP, the

                  software just locks up or I get a beachball.

                   

                  Major bug!   You gotta fix this ADOBE.

                  • 6. Re: can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session
                    ronnieh1 Level 1

                    My screen shot didn't come out, but it showed a pedestrian iMac 10,1 running OS10.6.6 that I use primarily for admin purposes. The first installation of AA4 was this week. I did not change the hardware settings from the defaults (Analog Line In/Analog Line Out). There has never been external audio hardware attached to this machine. a keyboard is the only USB device. A firewire optical drive is attached for CD duplication. The initial record crash showed up immediately. There was no audio input signal, but this is standard procedure for those of us that start computer capture before pressing PLAY on a tape deck.

                     

                    The initial crashes were only a minor inconvenience. What really chased me back to Audacity is that I couldn't trust AA4 to complete long unattended tape transfers running 3 hours at times. My Mac Pro has essentially unlimited free disk capacity and 6GB of RAM. My workflow is to capture without saving, then save selections of the capture. After completion, I dismiss the capture without ever saving the capture file.

                     

                    The iMac, with its limited resources, reported cache problems. That gave me a clue that re-launching AA4 between each capture might clear the cache. I'll go back to AA4 tomorrow to see whether this is a successful workaround.

                    • 7. Re: can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session
                      Charles VW Adobe Employee

                      Paulboston wrote:

                       

                      Thanks for taking all the time to explain exactly why I can't do large

                      AIFF files.     It's a bit of a pain, but hopefully somebody will be able

                      to modify the AIFF specs but yet the files are backwards compatible.

                       

                      I wouldn't count on that.   The spec was (kinda) reved once when they created AIFF-C (often known as AIFC), but it still has many of the same limitations.   Apple won't be updating this format as they've decided to instead create a new audio file format known as the Core Audio Format.   Unfortunately, the support of this format in other applications is more limited than WAV or AIFF.   At a recent conference, I heard a colleague refer to CAF as "Cripes, Another Format!"

                       

                      It should be noted, that if you have a malformed AIFF file that is larger than 2 GB, you should be able to recover the data by using our libsndfile importer and not our native AIFF importer (see the "Enable" popup in the Open dialog -- screenshot below).

                       

                      Screen shot 2011-02-17 at 9.49.17 AM.png

                       

                      At least we warn you about not being able to write an AIFF file beyond 2 GB.   When we were working on this feature, I tested several applications to see what they did when trying to save an AIFF that is larger than 2 GB.   Some just wrote up to the 2 GB limit without any warning that you didn't write all your data, some crashed, some wrote malformed files, and some warn ahead of time like we do.

                      • 8. Re: can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session
                        Charles VW Adobe Employee

                        Paulboston wrote:

                         

                        3)  Sometimes when I start a new recording session,  the software hangs when I click record.   I just get stream of little green boxes in the timeline and nothing records.   If I try to click on cancel, the whole program locks up.   I get the spinning beach ball and have to force quit.

                         

                        At this point, I think the recording stuff should be moved to a different thread because it doesn't accurately reflect the title of this post.   So after this response, please move this to a different thread.

                         

                        When you say "little green boxes", it sounds like you're seeing something like this?

                         

                        Screen shot 2011-02-17 at 9.55.42 AM.png

                         

                        This is our visual representation of the individual audio samples.   Sometimes in a new recording in the public beta build, the zoom level of the Editor panel is at its maximum zoom level.   If you zoom out during the recording, does the behavior change at all?

                        • 9. Re: can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session
                          Charles VW Adobe Employee

                          ronnieh1 wrote:

                           

                          I reported frequent hanging on a new recording session long ago and there has been no response from the developers. I guess that means it will be fixed in the release because it's a glaring bug.

                           

                          A worse bug is that....

                           

                          Hi ronnieh1.  I'm sorry that your issue that you reported got missed.   Please post a link to that particular thread, and I'll try and help you troubleshoot it there because this is getting away from the original AIFF topic.   Feel free to copy any of the information from here and add it to that thread.  Thanks.

                          • 10. Re: can't save AIFF over 2 Gig in size, default is wav?, hangs on new session
                            Paulboston Level 1

                            Hi,

                             

                            Yes, that is EXACTLY what I see.   However, once this happens,  I can't

                            zoom out or even cancel.   The software just locks up and I have to force

                            quit and restart.