9 Replies Latest reply on May 12, 2011 7:01 PM by dkitsov

    CS5 stabilized R3D's are blurry/unusable. Help!

    film418 Level 1

      I've been researching this problem and trying everything I can think of for two days with no results. The issue is that R3D clips that are stabilized in AE CS5 export out as too blurry to use. And no I don't have motion blur turned on.

       

      My workflow is to stabilze the R3D clip using the built in stabilizer and then to export it out using uncompressed settings whether quicktime or AVI or even Cineform. I place those clips on the Premiere timeline and they look terrible.

       

      This is a real problem at this point because I have masses of aerial footage to stabilize and I have to find an answer. Although I'm going to now try Mocha, it does not accept native R3D files or Cineform so I end up having to encode to intermediate codec.

       

      Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

        • 1. Re: CS5 stabilized R3D's are blurry/unusable. Help!
          Dave LaRonde Level 6

          falcon418 wrote:

           

          R3D clips that are stabilized in AE CS5 export out as too blurry to use. And no I don't have motion blur turned on...

           

          I have masses of aerial footage...

           

          Let me guess the scenario: you went to all the trouble to use a RED camera for aerial footage, you invested a lot of time shooting it, but you cheaped out on renting an aerial camera stabilization system and did it all hand-held.  You also shot at a low frame rate like 23.976 or 24.  Furthermore, to save money on renting a plane or a helicopter, you didn't bother to run tests to ensure that your plan was even feasible.  You simply shot tons of aerial footage.

           

          Is that an accurate summary of the events?

           

          If so, you got a good track in AE, but that blur is right in your footage.  It's called "motion blur".  It doubtlessly comes and goes as your hand-held camera moved around, getting buffeted by wind, you had a shaky hand, your home-brew stabilizer didn't cut it -- whatever reason.  The low frame rate only made the motion blur worse.

           

          In AE you can add blur, but you can't un-blur blurry footage.

           

          falcon418 wrote:

           

          ...I have to find an answer.

           

          You're not going to like MY answer: re-shoot.  And this time do it the right way, using a real aerial stabilization system, shooting at 59.94 or 60 fps.  Stop trying to use AE as a Band-Aid.

           

          If my scenario above is even remotely true, you have no other option BUT to re-shoot.

          • 2. Re: CS5 stabilized R3D's are blurry/unusable. Help!
            Todd_Kopriva Level 8

            How does the result look if you import it back into After Effects and look at it? How about in a media player? What I'm trying to determine here is whether the perceived bad quality is because of how you're viewing the clip in Premiere Pro (e.g., having the Source Monitor playback resolution set to 1/8).

            • 3. Re: CS5 stabilized R3D's are blurry/unusable. Help!
              film418 Level 1

              Laronde...Not sure how you were able to pile one assumption on top of the other without the whole pile tipping over. Your assumptions are pretty much 100 per cent wrong but I don't have time to argue about it. Stabilizers were used for a majority of the shooting, but stabilizers are attached to helicopters and helicopters bounce up and down especially in the weather we ran into.

               

              We shot red so that we could stabilize the 4096 frame and then choose the finished 1920 frame from that. What is unexpected is our inability to get AE to put out a reasonable picture from R3D,

               

              Filling up a post as you did with a ton of incorrect assumptions is both unwelcome and a waste of everybodys' time.

              • 4. Re: CS5 stabilized R3D's are blurry/unusable. Help!
                film418 Level 1

                Todd,

                 

                My source monitor playback is set to full. I wish it was something that simple. The problem happens only when stabilization is applied to an R3D file. I'm going to try fiddling around with dynamic link and see if that helps.

                • 5. Re: CS5 stabilized R3D's are blurry/unusable. Help!
                  Dave LaRonde Level 6

                  Hey, spell LaRonde right: there's capital R in it.

                   

                  And I still say that if you shot at 24p, you've got built-in motion blur.

                  • 6. Re: CS5 stabilized R3D's are blurry/unusable. Help!
                    Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                    > The problem happens only when stabilization is applied to an R3D file.

                     

                    But what about my other questions? Does the image look bad in After Effects? Or just in Premiere Pro?

                    • 7. Re: CS5 stabilized R3D's are blurry/unusable. Help!
                      film418 Level 1

                      The picture is good in After Effects although I'm somewhat limited by not being able put out an after effects image onto a second monitor.

                       

                      I've checked all my monitor settings in Ppro and they are set to full.

                       

                      Last night I was able to get a good stabilized clip into Ppro from AE. I did it by using dynamic link, making a new Ppro project and loading that into Ppro. I placed it on to the Ppro timeline and after rendering it out through AME, I had the quality I needed.

                       

                      So, to sum it up, I'm finding that if I can get a stabilized clip into AME for rendering, it makes all the difference. If I render it out in AE, the clip is unusable, whether I render it to Quicktime, Avi, Cineform or whatever.

                       

                      Thanks for your interest in helping. Even though we shot most in 24p, we have some beautiful stuff...it does have helicopter movement however that we need to stabilize.

                      • 8. Re: CS5 stabilized R3D's are blurry/unusable. Help!
                        film418 Level 1

                        For what it's worth I have been able to transfer good quality stabilized  clips from After Effects into Ppro by using dynamic link and letting AME do the rendering. I also found out that stabilization done in Mocha looses a good deal of detail and resolution. So, for now we'll be using the AE stabilizer only.

                         

                        Hope this helps someone.

                        • 9. Re: CS5 stabilized R3D's are blurry/unusable. Help!
                          dkitsov Level 2

                          I am surprized that no one gave you a correct answer.

                           

                          In order to get good results from stabilization routines regardless of the software you are using is to shoot at a high enough shutter speed. The shutter speed depends on the lens you use. As a minimum shutter speed should be for times the focal length of the lens you shoot with. For example: if you are shooting with a 28 millimeters lens your shutter speed should have been at least 1/125 of a second. This of course depends on how much motion was in the original footage.

                           

                          The frame rate has no relation to the ability to stabilize the footage. Only the shutter speed is what matters. The reason why footage looks blurry to you now is that after you stabilized it a motion blur caused by camera motion and and possibly the vibration of a helicopter is now visible and not masked by the movements of the image. When shooting from a helicopter I would recommend using as high of the shutter speed as possible as high as 1/1000 of a second or even higher. This of course will lead to rather stroby looking footage. You will have to either live with it or use a plug-in like Kronos motion blur or time warp without applying retiming but using a motion blur option with a 180° setting.

                           

                          Another reason for you footage to look blurry now is that it is often necessary for the stabilization software to zoom in on crop the picture. This is by design. There is nothing you can do about it. The only way to workaround it is to reduce the amount of the motion stabilization applied to the picture. You would need to find a balance between stabilities and and the image sharpness. Also, there is a setting in a Premiere Pro CS5 for the resolution of the footage display. If you are setting is lower than the full resolution for either playback or paused footage,the picture can look significantly blurrier than it really is. This is done to ensure smooth playback, sometimes smoothness of a playback is more important than the sharpness of the image for the editing purposes.

                           

                          Hope this helps, cheers.

                           

                          Message was edited by: dkitsov, added a note about post Motion Blur